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Adaptronic Adaptronic Staging Primarys at 97% Duty

Old 08-15-16, 08:52 AM
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Adaptronic Staging Primarys at 97% Duty

Monitoring my data logs Iíve noticed that my stock 550ccís injectors hit 97% duty cycle prior to the 1600cc's secondaryís kicking in. The Adaptronic 440 ECU works this way without the ability to adjust. Iíve had people tell me that this is a bad thing keeping the injectors open this much. If it was an issue I'm sure there would have been a post about this in this section. Also I had people tell me to get the new type injectors such as injector dynamics (Will be able to handle the high duty cycle) but I do not what to spend more money.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-16-16, 09:07 AM
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Weird. **V14 of WARI** should have "Manual Staging" when you enter in injector sizes.

Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 08-16-16 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 08-16-16, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
Weird. **V14 of WARI** should have "Manual Staging" when you enter in injector sizes.
V14 does not have this option that I know of. Eugene crashes constantly and does weird things on my Windows 7 laptop. Probable need a new labtop so I have no idea if Eugene has this option.
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Old 08-16-16, 10:42 PM
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Just contact Mark on their Facebook page, see if he has a work-around.
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Old 08-17-16, 02:36 AM
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Doesn't sound like its adjustable based on this post

Fd3s injector staging
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Old 08-17-16, 07:50 PM
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You shouldn't trust Eugene or attempt to run your car on it at this point.

As far was Wari V14 injector staging, to the best of my knowledge it is set and cannot be changed. I'm pretty sure it is even in the ECU manual that the primaries will run to ~97% and then the secondaries come online past that. I ran my ID725/ID2000's like that without any issues for a few years.

I would recommend buying a set of ID1000's to run in the primary spots as they will be open way more compared to the secondaries. That combined with the fact that you can pick up a set of ID1000's on here for $200 bucks or under, it is probably worth the investment.

2000's...on the other hand...are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

-Skeese
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Old 08-17-16, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
You shouldn't trust Eugene or attempt to run your car on it at this point.

As far was Wari V14 injector staging, to the best of my knowledge it is set and cannot be changed. I'm pretty sure it is even in the ECU manual that the primaries will run to ~97% and then the secondaries come online past that. I ran my ID725/ID2000's like that without any issues for a few years.

I would recommend buying a set of ID1000's to run in the primary spots as they will be open way more compared to the secondaries. That combined with the fact that you can pick up a set of ID1000's on here for $200 bucks or under, it is probably worth the investment.

2000's...on the other hand...are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

-Skeese
Yes I heard people run this for years with no issues. I just thought it strange to pick 97%. Seems high. I have stock 550cc and old Ford 1600cc running through my stock harness. Worked fine with Haltech when I ran the Haltech harness. Instead of paying almost $200 Canadian to clean the injects I guess I should have bought new ones. A freind swears an increase in gas mileage just by going to the newer injectors.
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Old 08-17-16, 09:32 PM
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Yes, your friend is right. Control is everything.
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Old 08-18-16, 02:12 AM
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I'm actually tempted to find smaller primaries and go big on the secondaries, purely for better low speed road manners, finer control of fuelling with ac load, on->off throttle transition etc etc
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Old 08-18-16, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Marf View Post
I'm actually tempted to find smaller primaries and go big on the secondaries, purely for better low speed road manners, finer control of fuelling with ac load, on->off throttle transition etc etc
The ID725s, 1000s, and 1300s should all be just fine for idling and excellent control for partial throttle/transient response.

If it were easier to do, I'd run 2x ID1300s Primaries and 4x ID1700Xs Secondaries.
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Old 08-18-16, 11:22 AM
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I really don't like 97% duty cycle on any injector. I wonder if this will ever be addressed?
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Old 08-18-16, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
The ID725s, 1000s, and 1300s should all be just fine for idling and excellent control for partial throttle/transient response.

If it were easier to do, I'd run 2x ID1300s Primaries and 4x ID1700Xs Secondaries.
While that it an awesome setup those 6 injectors would cause you to have $1400+ in injectors along and that doesn't include having to buy a 4 port rail and LIM and it doesn't seem that the OP is looking to drop that kinda dough. Plus you don't need that amount of injector flow until you are in need the 500+ hp range anyways.

Originally Posted by Monkman33 View Post
I really don't like 97% duty cycle on any injector. I wonder if this will ever be addressed?
That would be an excellent question for Andy, Mark, or Elliott as I'm not sure how Eugene is going to work from an injector staging standpoint. I can say I had no issues with the 97% primary injector duty and transition to the secondaries when I was running ID725's and 2000's and the logs verified that this transition didn't cause any AFR spikes/dips.

-Skeese
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Old 08-18-16, 01:26 PM
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Hi Guys,

I have somethings I am reading that I can see there is some grey area.

1. Eugene is just a tool that allows you to manipulate the predetermined variables on the ECU. It does not mater if you are using WARI or Eugene on the e420d, e440d, or any of the PnP models the ECU will respond the same. The firmware is what dictates what options are manipulable by WARI/Eugene. Eugene does have some extra things but they are for the new ECU's and ideal in the end you will not see the new items when you are connected to a select ECU and only see them when you are connected to a M series ECU.

EUGENE IS STILL IN BETA AND SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR TUNING

2. Currently on the Select Models You cannot change the Max Injector Duty cycle when in VE mode. You can do it in MS mode. That requires a firmware change which can be done at request with a valid reason as to why you need this done. Generally an injector is just fine at 96-97% duty cycle in a pull as most pulls are less then 20-30 seconds. Yes there would be scenario's that would have an injector set for a prolonged time but we have never seen a direct failure of an injector due to this. That is why Andy has it set to this. We personally have used the stock primary injectors countless times with no issues.

3. Currently you can have a car idle perfectly with ID2000cc injectors. If an individual is having issues with the car dipping down when fan's, AC, PS, Headlights ect.. is because you do not have the the idle air control setup properly. The only injector that I know off hand you would not be able to do this on is the big sema deca injectors(spelled them wrong)

4. What to look forward to us with the new Adaptronic ECU's M2000/6000/PNP is that you will be able to set what your max duty cycle is for up to 4 stages of injection.

Thanks,

Shawn Christenson
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