BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

I wanted to thanks the Adaptronics team for all the help and quick response to my questions. I am working on a new engine setup for my FD in which I will be running the Pro Jay Typhoon intake with 6 injectors and Ford 3 wire TPS.

After contacting Andy and the Adaptronics team I had all my questions answered the very next day, and a great how to on what settings I needed to change on my ECU for the extra injector load and what wires to use for the Ford 3 wire TPS.

This will be done on my Adaptronic Plug and Play Select ECU.






Thanks
Luis

MarkG

Cheers!

Grinch

iTrader: (2)

were's the info for the rest of us out there lol What pins you run your other two injectors to and what setting you have to change on the ecu?

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

The other 2 injectors are spliced to the secondary injectors, you have to change the amp setting from 0.9A to 1.9A. I don't know if software changed but I believe you can do it thru the F11 screen.

Regarding the Ford Mustang 3 wire TPS, I'm having issues no matter how I wire it I can't get it to read, it either blank or 100%.

MarkG

To be able to run two more secondary injectors, you'll need to run them in parallel with the existing (secondary) ones, then change the injector current (trigger settings) to give out 1.9A. However, the ECU's triggering setting is locked for all Select plug-in ECUs, so the steps of how to get around this are:
1. Save a copy of your existing file, and open it while the ECU is not connected.
2. Access the hidden menu beside "help", and change the ECU ID to 440 (remember what yours originally was)
3. Change the injector current by accessing the "Triggering Settings" page found on the Triggering Tab.
4. Bring back the ECU ID to the original one.
5. Hit File\Save As to save the new settings.
6. Connect the ECU, and load the new/edited ECU file (File\Open).
Please take note that you'll need to run high impedance injectors on the primaries when you change the current to 1.9A.

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Thanks Mark for clearing it up, that's exactly like Andy told me how to do it a few months back.

Also thanks for the quick reply concerning the TPS issue I was having, I though I was wiring the Ford TPS wrong and after testing it I was able to determined that the TPS sensor I was using was damaged, I picked another new sensor and after connecting it and calibrating it the issue was solved. Funny thing is the damaged sensor was also new.

For anyone that's looking to use a Ford TPS here is the wires that need to be use.

The TPS is from a 1988-1993 Ford Mustang GT part number EC1016 from Advance Auto Parts, it is a BWD brand.


FD3S S6 TPS wiring. Ford Mustang TPS

Pin 3I / Brown/White = 5V --------------------------------Orange wire = 5V
Pin 3G / Black/Green =TPS Signal(full range)-------------Green Wire. = TPS
Pin 4D / Brown/Black= Ground ----------------------------Black Wire. = Ground
Pin 3F / Green/Red. = TPS ( narrow range) not used.

Once connected you must calibrate the new TPS sensor thru the ECU software.

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

I was looking on the wiring diagram that Elliot posted on the Adaptronic Forum on how to wire the FD PNP for 6 injectors 3 level of staging and it looks by the picture that they are still wired in parallel, but two of the secondary injectors get swap from front rotor to rear rotor and from rear to front it's that correct, and can you please explain how does that actually work.

AdaptronicAus

Ok, just to clarify, the ECU has 4 injector outputs.

Normally:

Injector output 1 = front primary
Injector output 2 = front secondary
Injector output 3 = rear primary
Injector output 4 = rear secondary

Instead when we do 3 staging levels, we configure them as follows:

Injector output 1 = front primary
Injector output 2 = secondary 1 (front and rear)
Injector output 3 = rear primary
Injector output 4 = secondary 2 (front and rear)

The secondary 1 + 2 have to be controlled independently so that we can do the 3 levels of staging, so that's why they have to be on separate outputs.

Otherwise you can connect the secondaries together and have 2 levels of staging, just having the two sets of secondaries coming on all at once.

I'm not sure if that answers the question...

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Thanks Andy, now i get the wiring, what i dont still get is how the actual 3 stage setup works, so will it be right to say that the Primary 1-2 are the first stage and secondary 1 second stage and secondary 2 wiill be the 3 stage.


So lets say injector output 2 secondary1 front and rear, how will the ecu control the injection of the fuel between fron and rear rotor on that output.

Just want to know what im doing and why im doing it and how the 3 stage setup works before i start changing wires on the harness, and before i get ready for tunning.


Thanks
Luis

Grinch

iTrader: (2)

You can use it how you got it wired now, your bigger problem is not being able to run 4 injector bigger then 1300 on secondary with ve tuning and stuff.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

That isn't a correct statement. With the current firmware you cannot input an injector size greater than 2500cc per bank( each bank refers to two injectors- so 2 ID2000s is still 2200cc) of staging while using VE tuning. So this means if you want to use VE tuning and are running gasoline you cannot go bigger than 4 1200cc injectors with only 2 sets of staging, or 4 1300cc with E85. This doesn't mean you cannot run more injectors, it just means you need to goto 3 levels of staging like the Rx-8.

For example;

If you want to run 2 ID1000s primaries, and 4 ID2000s secondaries( in a Xcessive LIM) using VE tuning all you need to do is wire the injector for 3 levels of staging as mentioned above.

Grinch

iTrader: (2)

Oh, thought other day Andy was saying had to make new firmware to make it work correctly.

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

So as far as my wiring goes im good, but i have to switch one of the secondary front injector to the rear secondary and one from the secondary rear to the secondary front, all i want to know is how the ecu controls a front and rear secondary from one output.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

There will need to be a new firmware update to run 2 sets of staging( with 4 secondaries bigger than 1200/1300 with VE), but not 3. That has never changed. All you needed to do was just rewire your Select !

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Still waiting on a answer on how the 3 stage works, or how a single secondary output is going to control the fuel injection firing timing between the front and rear rotor.

MarkG

Hi Black Mamba,

So I've checked with Andy yesterday, and he said the 3 levels of staging is very much similar with the 2-stage, but with 3 stages, just like on the RX8. i.e. The ECU calculates the amount of fuel to be delivered. It does as much as it can on the primaries. When that’s not enough, it uses the P2 as well. When that’s not enough, it starts to use the secondaries. It will all be calculated internally when you use VE mode.

Now as I've mentioned in the PM, the single injector output will fire two injectors at the same time, so that one rotor receives fuel at the right time, and the other just a bit early.

Hope this helps.

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Ok, so I did the injector setup for the 3 stage and every time I enter the injector value for the primary 2 the engine dies and it won't start, as soon as I remove the injector value the car fires right up, doing this shouldn't affect the idle part of the map because the primary 2 shouldn't be firing at idle. I'm getting to the point where I feel like the guinea pig, and really feel like I should move to another ecu.

I can't run the 4 injectors as secondaries on VE, and now that I try this 3 stage setup it isn't working out, I was even thinking on selling the 4 ID 2000 and running 2 Moran 5000cc injectors for the secondaries but the ecu won't handle them on VE.

I feel like I'm going backwards.

MarkG

Hi Luis,

Thank you for your feedback. Please send me your ecu / log file (mark@adaptronic.com.au), so we can try to reproduce it on the bench ecu. We do it the same on RX8s so it should work, but we'll see what's different in this case that causes the car to cut.

Thanks.

AdaptronicAus

Hi all, there are ways around the injector size limit until we add it in the software. Remember it's all about the ratio between the engine capacity and injector size.

Eg if you want to have:

1300cc engine
Primary injectors 2200 cc/min
Secondary injectors 4400cc/min

you can just enter those as:

engine size = 700
primary injector = 1180
secondary injector = 2370

You're right though, just setting the P2 size shouldn't make a difference at idle, so I'd like to check that out.

If you can please email me (andyw@adaptronic.com.au) or Mark (mark@adaptronic.com.au) your ECU files, both the last one that was running and the new one where you've set the P2 injectors size, and he or I can run it on an ECU on the bench and find our why the difference (why it cuts out when you set the secondaries).

I'll follow up with Mark tomorrow (Monday) to see if he's got it; he'll be spending a bit of time tomorrow starting to train up a new support guy to help us out so if he's received the ECU file I'll get him to send it to me so I can do it.

Thank you
Andy

AdaptronicAus

Dear all,

I did find a problem in the ECU code – it was because all our testing on the 3 levels of injector staging to date had been on the RX8 plug-in ECUs, so there was one calculation that was different on the wire-in ECUs when 3 levels of staging was selected, the result was that double the fuel was being injected which is why the engine fell over when you selected that mode.

I can't attach firmware to this post, so here's a link where I've put it on the 6 injector Xcesssive LIM thread on our forum:

http://www.adaptronic.com.au/forum/i...25007#msg25007

If you load in this firmware your problem will be over.

Thank you and many apologies

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Thanks to the Adaptronics team for jumping and fixing this issue so quick, I had installed new firmware and all my issues are gone.

Thanks
Luis

AdaptronicAus

Thanks Luis, sorry again for the hassle.

Just for the benefit of the audience, you will also need software version 12 to be able to load in this firmware (I've put a note in the other thread).

All the best! Brap on.
Andy