Priced out some Rotors (front and rear) and the front and rear stationary gears.

They say the stationary gears are a BETTER, CHEAPER alternative to the Hardend stationary gears 'Other Guys' Sell. They "Say" They can run past 9500RPM with no problems. I did this for plans in a future 13B Build in my S4.

Rotors were:

Mazda Part Number

N3Z1-10-B10B Front Rotor $390.36 + GST
N3Z1-11-B50B Rear Rotor $390.36 + GST

Gears:

Mazda Part Number

N3H1-10-E00C Stationary Gear Front $64.57 + GST !!!!!!!!
N3H3-10-E10C Stationary Gear Rear $152.74 + GST

Im not sure if that includes bearings or not. Im sure the rotors come with them.

Also, I forget to get a quote on a front counterweight to balanace the thing.

 

yeah those prices are about what i found when i looked up the pricing.
remember, new parts that are in production are almost always cheaper than old parts that are no longer in production.

the stationary gears are a no-brainer but the rotors are going to give better engine "dynamics" rather than actual power. as i'm sure you know there are a few things to be aware of when dealing with the Renesis rotors...unfortunately i have personally concluded the total cost of the rotors and modifications needed to work in the 13b are not worth it.
that being said i would like to see more people doing it so we can see more conclusive results.

 

They come with the bearings. You need the Eshaft as well unless u want to modify the rear stat gear so that the oil feed to the journal bearing is in the correct location.

If you are giong to use the rx8 rotors you need the "special" longer side seals. I don't think you can get those in Canada. I know you can buy them from mazdaspeed motorsports. Part number is N3H1-11-C11C. But I have a feeling that number is a mazda japan part number. meaning the dealership here won't know what it is/can't get it. Best bet is to goto mazdatrix for them. I think they are 18 bucks USD for each seal and you gotta cut them to length. I thik mazdaspeed motorsports price is probably something like 9 a seal. You need 12 seals for two rotors.

 

I been talking to a few guys who run RX-8 rotors in their cars in the states. Its accually, very simple installation. The only thing you really need to do, is in fact use 2nd Gen seals and such.



Im planning a Perhiperal Port Motor and I have RX-8 Gears already planned. Rotors were kind of an Idea to get more compression, but as it turns out, I might be getting some S4 Rotors Machined for 12.0:1 Compression or more to run Alcohol, seeing as I have unlimited access to straight alcohol. Problem with that, is it becomes a little 'Too Extreme' for the streets.

The original plan was for S4 rotors so I can happily run pump gas at 11,500RPM.

 

need the eshaft? what they didnt put the oil passage in the center of
the bearing area on the rx8 shaft?
matt

 

Ya I never heard anything related to the e-shaft. Alls I heard about the rear gear was that it didnt have a spot for the O-Ring, so you need to use sealant or your motor leaks oil.

From what I understand, to use the rotors in your older 13B, you have to reverse the rotors so the beleving supports the side intake ports, instead of the non-exsistent side exhaust ports. Front to back, Back to Front.

Since my motor is going to be PP, I dont think it matters.

 

you do NOT want to use stock Renesis apex seals with any sort of peripheral port (exhaust and/or intake).
your best bet is to get the rotor to accept the older 13b seals. another option is to use ceramic Renesis seals ($$$).

also, for some reason it was mentioned somewhere that you want to use 2 REAR Renesis rotors.

 

I don't know... I must admit that I just regurgetated that info from other people who have built up motors using rx8 stat gears from the nopistons forum....

 

#N3Z2-11-D6X - $64.21 - front counter weight??

#N3Z2-11-52X - $105.39 - rear auto counter weight??
(My invoice doesn't show which one one is front and rear)

#N3H2-11-D00B - E-shaft - $860.25 <--- ouch!!

There was a discussion on nopistons.com about the actual gains of the Renesis. One builder said they actually lost power by using the Renesis rotors.

I was really thinking of doing this same thing myself, but its just not worth the added cost. I'm going to stick with S5 N/A rotors.

 

I think the mysterys of the renisis motor is far from solved. I'd use all renesis parts, but that would be retarded in a PP setup.


however, the cost of the modifications and extras to make the RX-8 rotors work on an older 13B STILL ends up cheaper than S5 N/A Rotors. Well, for the prices I was qouted on S5 N/A Rotors.


I think there could be an advantage to RX-8 rotors over S5 N/A. 10:1 Versus 9.7:1 Compression ratios. Also, they are lighter and more catered to the 10,000RPM cap of the renisis. Extensive tuning would be the key I think.

 

Good god, you must have an accomplished machine shop handling this if you feel comfortable modifying rotors to turn 12krpm and not have heat, stresses, and unequal weighting rip them apart over time. To get that kind of CR you're going to have to fill in the rotors quite a bit, and I would think this would add a lot of material, making the already heavy s4 rotors even heavier. Even with extreme lightening and clearancing, I dont see how you'll get back to 10lb with them, and a 10lb rotor isn't going to stay happy at 12k for long.

 

have you found out the cost to modify the Renesis rotors to accept the older 13b apex seals?
this is something i don't know yet. i just assumed it isn't cheap...

 

According to a post on nopistons.com the rx8 e-shaft difference is:
1) Rotor journals are 1 thou smaller
2) RX8 crank is lighter by 170 grams

All other dimensions, journal sizes, oil gallery sizes & position are the same as FD. This includes the stepped front & rear main bearing journals. Oil jets are the same, 2.5mm

Apprently to use rx8 stat gears (front and rear) with a FC or FD e-shaft you need to do the following. "4. The oil feed hole in the rear gear is 1/4 of a hole out. If you look down the gallery from the oil filter you'll see what I mean. A die grinder soon fixes this, the hole must be ovaled 2mm towards the rear of the gear. The oil passage in the front gear lines up." "

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...howtopic=58062

This is what I priced out when I was thinking of buying parts to rebuild my spare motor. This is in addition to the seal kit (hard + soft) which is about 700 USD from mazdaspeed motorsports.

the rx8 parts you need are as follows:

rx8 crank $138 USD
front stat gear $74 USD
rear stat gear $93 USD
rotor bearing (comp) $84 x 2 USD

total upgrade dollars = 473 USD + shipping from mazdaspeed motorsports.

 

I've got a few tricks up my sleeve, as well as a bit of cash put aside. Call it R&D.


But hey, its not like Im going to be running it all day at 11,500RPM. I dont feel comfortable with a chance my clutch assembly will go ripping out of the bell housing and into the ballistic blanket.

 

I havent quite gotten that far into the RX-8 rotors. One of the rotary builders here has all the required equipment to do just about anything machining wise.

The RX-8 rotating assembly has been something I have been contemplating for awhile now. Since its relatively new, it interests me in such a way that I can learn first hand instead being told so second hand.

 

There is a thread on the 8 board that might interest you.


http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=81502

 

Good stuff, thanks.

 

Seems theres not alot of information as of yet on RX-8 Rotors in old 13B. It has been suggested that MFR PP housings be used on a Full Rx-8 Long Block to substitute the normal rotor housings. This is essentially the setup I was looking for. HOWEVER, This is NOT cost effective so its not an option.

My plan now is to wait for the MazdaSpeed RX-8 due soon. I'd like to see information on the differences between the two engines before I proceed with this project. Im going to do it 100% when Something that experimental comes along.

It has been decided that for now Im going to probably use an S5 N/A Rotating assembly with RX-8 gears. Theres not enough concrete evidence right now to get a straight answer out of anyone. Ironically, everyone who has this setup, doesnt know, and anyone who knows, doesnt have (of have had) this setup. Impossible for me to know.

Im just going to do a Write up on a Budget 13B PP Build up and a reveiw of performance impressions.


I'd like to keep this thread open to RX-8 internal discussion. It could be helpful to others searching for this information.

 

Sounds like another episode of Seans "Dream Car Garage"

 

Only this time I'll have the adiquate equipment AND money to accomplish results.

I was once a dreamer. Oil industry changed all that with almost 6 digits a year.

 

Well heres a Renesis realated question I haven't seen anyone ask before,

I'm wondering if the older style 13B rotors would drop into the Renesis block, like would the rotor bearings match up ok with the Renesis e-shaft....

I'd really like to try putting some S5 T2 rotors into a Renesis and then build a REAL turbo kit for it.
Something like RX8PR did to his Rx-8.




GT35R on an internally stock Renesis. I believe he was pushing 330 whp with this setup. I'd like to try the lower compression rotors with the taller apex seals.

Just an idea I've had bouncing around for a while

 

I could forsee that being done fairly easily I suppose in theory. But it seems they started from the begininng when they developed the renesis, hence the name.

Theres much to learn of the Renisis in the coming years. The Mazdaspeed will be the key, I think, to the secrets of the N/A Renisis. Obviously it will adress alot of issues we've come across. At least, thats my guess anyhow. Perhaps the motor will seal better? We dont know.

This is quite the research project. Part of me wants to do RX-8 rotating assembly. Part of me doesnt.

 

Heres some pics I took comparing the RX-8 stat gears and Cosmo RE stat gears.

http://www.rxclubofontario.com/rxfor...hp?p=1143#1143

 

meh, just tell us how it goes..=)