XS just tuned & dynoed my car, what do ya think?
01-18-03, 09:06 PM
#1
mythical Unicorn
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XS just tuned & dynoed my car, what do ya think?
Well those of you that have been hearing me **** and moan for over a year about my low power, here is my new results from XS.
Running in sequential I ran 364.5 hp, I believe my torque was about 310 or 315. Do you think that is good? I had it tuned more for low end power than peak. I care more about coming out of a corner as fast as possible.
Do you think that is good for the sequential set up on stock twins?
Thanks for your input.
Running in sequential I ran 364.5 hp, I believe my torque was about 310 or 315. Do you think that is good? I had it tuned more for low end power than peak. I care more about coming out of a corner as fast as possible.
Do you think that is good for the sequential set up on stock twins?
Thanks for your input.
01-18-03, 09:11 PM
#2
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those are some good numbers. Plus on top of that it looks from your list you have done the right things for reliability. I would say the numbers are good and the engine should be operating in good condition with the mods you got. Nice job
- Steiner
- Steiner
01-18-03, 09:21 PM
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Kudos!!! 
SO what's that good for in the 1/4 just as a general reference(I'm more track based too, it just gives me an idea how fast the car can accelerate)?
I have no idea if those are good numbers for your car with your modifications...are these on the US-Spec turbos?
SO what's that good for in the 1/4 just as a general reference(I'm more track based too, it just gives me an idea how fast the car can accelerate)?
I have no idea if those are good numbers for your car with your modifications...are these on the US-Spec turbos?
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01-19-03, 01:46 AM
#8
mythical Unicorn
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HP & Tq numbers
Here are the numbers from 3500 and up. Remember I had it tuned for as much power as quickly as possible. I was willing to give up top end for better low end. Kogi tuned my car. So here are the numbers
RPM HP TQ
3400 252 162 beginning of graph line.
3500 260 170
4000 255 195
4500 300 255
4700 320 285 end of 1st turbo, transition to 2nd.
5000 320 300
5250 325 324.4 is peak torque.
5500 325 310
6000 335 295
6500 350 280
7000 350 265
7300 364.5 260
Torque is dropping as the rpm's get high, and the hp peaques at 7300. I told |Kogi that I wanted to come out of a corner as hard as possible. After that it is straight so the drop is acceptable to me. Of course I would like it to continue to rise but I figure with that hp and tq down low and the 4.77 gears that are coming from Japan, the thing should be a beast coming out of a corner.
Whe I compare these numbers to the post of the M2 Sequential to BNR non Seq, I have approx 260 at 3500 where the M2 has 155 and the BNR has 160. At 4700 where I get my peak from the 1st turbo I have 320 hp where the M2 has approx 225 and the BNR has approx 297. So with this setup I have more hp than the M2 up to 7300 where I start to drop, and have more power than the BNR up to 5000. After 5000 the BNR's are kicking my butt, again coming out of a corner I will be tuff to beat. Additionally I feel the torque builds very quickly.
The comparison I am using is the one I just pulled of the forum of the M2 vs BNR where the M2 makes 355 hp and the BNR's make 410.
So I feel that where are cars are really handicaped is in the low rpm, well I feel that this shows that I can be competitive against the ZO6 in SM2.
RPM HP TQ
3400 252 162 beginning of graph line.
3500 260 170
4000 255 195
4500 300 255
4700 320 285 end of 1st turbo, transition to 2nd.
5000 320 300
5250 325 324.4 is peak torque.
5500 325 310
6000 335 295
6500 350 280
7000 350 265
7300 364.5 260
Torque is dropping as the rpm's get high, and the hp peaques at 7300. I told |Kogi that I wanted to come out of a corner as hard as possible. After that it is straight so the drop is acceptable to me. Of course I would like it to continue to rise but I figure with that hp and tq down low and the 4.77 gears that are coming from Japan, the thing should be a beast coming out of a corner.
Whe I compare these numbers to the post of the M2 Sequential to BNR non Seq, I have approx 260 at 3500 where the M2 has 155 and the BNR has 160. At 4700 where I get my peak from the 1st turbo I have 320 hp where the M2 has approx 225 and the BNR has approx 297. So with this setup I have more hp than the M2 up to 7300 where I start to drop, and have more power than the BNR up to 5000. After 5000 the BNR's are kicking my butt, again coming out of a corner I will be tuff to beat. Additionally I feel the torque builds very quickly.
The comparison I am using is the one I just pulled of the forum of the M2 vs BNR where the M2 makes 355 hp and the BNR's make 410.
So I feel that where are cars are really handicaped is in the low rpm, well I feel that this shows that I can be competitive against the ZO6 in SM2.
01-19-03, 01:52 AM
#9
mythical Unicorn
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Boost
boost is 1.15 bar, Kogi put in the other sensor needed to work that high. Boost creep or spike is controlled by the duty cycle of the injectors. The higher the duty cycle the quicker my boost however the higher the duty cycle the greater chance for big spikes. Kogi told me to look into a Blitz boost controller. He has good luck when using them. He said I can get a boost much quicker using the controller. So I will see what I can do. At one time Kogi had max power and torque at 4500 and it stayed flat all the way out. However he only got it once and could not repeat it.
Allan
Allan
01-19-03, 02:47 AM
#10
Re: HP & Tq numbers
Originally posted by Spank
RPM HP TQ
3400 252 162 beginning of graph line.
3500 260 170
4000 255 195
4500 300 255
4700 320 285 end of 1st turbo, transition to 2nd.
5000 320 300
RPM HP TQ
3400 252 162 beginning of graph line.
3500 260 170
4000 255 195
4500 300 255
4700 320 285 end of 1st turbo, transition to 2nd.
5000 320 300
170tq at 3500rpm means you're making ~113hp not 255hp. If those numbers are really valid then it looks like you may have reversed the torque and hp numbers.
01-19-03, 03:02 AM
#11
Ghost Ride the Whip
That's a lot of boost...are you running 1.15 bar with 91 octane or race gas?
I have a friend who had almost the same mods as you who had his car tuned at XS (he had a SMIC instead of a FMIC, and also had a streetport)...he made 387rwhp on stock sequential twins at 17psi (I believe it's pretty close to 1.15 bar)
I have a friend who had almost the same mods as you who had his car tuned at XS (he had a SMIC instead of a FMIC, and also had a streetport)...he made 387rwhp on stock sequential twins at 17psi (I believe it's pretty close to 1.15 bar)
01-19-03, 11:27 AM
#14
mythical Unicorn
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No a/f chart to look at. I will call to ask about it. As far as reversing the numbers, they are correct. The line graph starts with over 250 hp and about 170lb of torque.
Allan
Allan
01-19-03, 11:38 AM
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how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
how does the injector duty cycle control spoolup time?? do you mean solonoid??
btw...ive run a setup similar to yours...when I went with my m2 set the difference was night and day over stock turbos...I have yet to get on the dyno to compare because of how xs treated my car the last time......Ive NEVER seen numbers like yours down low on stock shaft bearing twins. ever. you are a hundred hp over what most sets are...perhaps you should have it put on another dyno..something is wrong.
something seems off.
j
j
how does the injector duty cycle control spoolup time?? do you mean solonoid??
btw...ive run a setup similar to yours...when I went with my m2 set the difference was night and day over stock turbos...I have yet to get on the dyno to compare because of how xs treated my car the last time......Ive NEVER seen numbers like yours down low on stock shaft bearing twins. ever. you are a hundred hp over what most sets are...perhaps you should have it put on another dyno..something is wrong.
something seems off.
j
j
Last edited by artguy; 01-19-03 at 11:45 AM.
01-19-03, 12:12 PM
#17
Re: Re: HP & Tq numbers
Originally posted by JspecFD
Those numbers aren't valid since its mathematically impossible to develop more hp than tq at less than 5252 rpm since hp = (tq x rpm)/5252
170tq at 3500rpm means you're making ~113hp not 255hp. If those numbers are really valid then it looks like you may have reversed the torque and hp numbers.
Those numbers aren't valid since its mathematically impossible to develop more hp than tq at less than 5252 rpm since hp = (tq x rpm)/5252
170tq at 3500rpm means you're making ~113hp not 255hp. If those numbers are really valid then it looks like you may have reversed the torque and hp numbers.
Jeff
01-19-03, 01:39 PM
#18
Spank, how does the the FMIC work for you in regards of underhood temps?most road racers use the SMIC to keep from underhood temps tolerable.
You chose a front mount, I,m interested why? and are the gains you get with a bigger IC are worth the higher temps? thanks.
You chose a front mount, I,m interested why? and are the gains you get with a bigger IC are worth the higher temps? thanks.
01-19-03, 02:52 PM
#19
Originally posted by Spank
No a/f chart to look at. I will call to ask about it. As far as reversing the numbers, they are correct. The line graph starts with over 250 hp and about 170lb of torque.
Allan
No a/f chart to look at. I will call to ask about it. As far as reversing the numbers, they are correct. The line graph starts with over 250 hp and about 170lb of torque.
Allan
01-19-03, 03:03 PM
#20
Originally posted by artguy
how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
Originally posted by Spank
boost is 1.15 bar, Kogi put in the other sensor needed to work that high.
boost is 1.15 bar, Kogi put in the other sensor needed to work that high.
01-19-03, 04:51 PM
#22
mythical Unicorn
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Boost
Originally posted by artguy
how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
how does the injector duty cycle control spoolup time?? do you mean solonoid??
btw...ive run a setup similar to yours...when I went with my m2 set the difference was night and day over stock turbos...I have yet to get on the dyno to compare because of how xs treated my car the last time......Ive NEVER seen numbers like yours down low on stock shaft bearing twins. ever. you are a hundred hp over what most sets are...perhaps you should have it put on another dyno..something is wrong.
something seems off.
Kogi put in the new sensor so he could increase my boost. Yes it is possible to put down power like that down low but it must be tuned for it. Ralph as Excessive Engineering (Portland Or) told be that it could be done. He also said that if he could not tune his own car Kogi is the only person he would let do it.
When I get home I will scan in the chart. Yes I know I am getting about 100 hp more than others down low, and my tq is also great. I have been on the net for two days and have yet to find 1 dyno sheet that will compare to mine down low. Yes after 5000 a few other cars have more power than me, but thats ok. By the time they get to there I will already have saved 1/4 of a second by having the power down low. If I can gain 1/4 sec on somebody just by having the power down low then I will be able to beat the other RX7's that will compete against me in SM2. Remember Atrguy that is specifically what my car is tuned for. I told Kogi I would give up peak hp, just give me everything you can as soon as you can. That is exactly what he did.
Also what makes a difference in what can be done is I run race fuel. I run the K & S Extreme unleded. It is the highest octane unleded you can buy. Octane numbers are 107 at high rpm's and 103 at low rpm's. They use a dual rating system for their fuel. So anyway, Kogi was able to get me the numbers that I was looking for because of the fuel I use. I could not duplicate those on pump gas.
Since I am building the car for race running race fuel is ok. However I do have a lower setting that is when I run on the street. It is for when I mix 50/50 race fuel and 94 premium.
Artguy I can honestly say this. My car was pretty fast before. No on a national level I could not win. Now I know why, there is no way my car in its previous condition could even compete with my car now.
I took a friend for a short ride on the street with my Hoosier racing slicks. Man is it a beast, and in 2nd when the 2nd turbo kicks in it spins the tires, and rememer these are the sticky Hoosier autox slicks.
The car is incredible. Just come out to one of the National Autox's in the NW or Calif and I will take you for a ride. My goal is to win the nationals this year in SM2, and now I have the power to compete.
Allan
j
how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
how does the injector duty cycle control spoolup time?? do you mean solonoid??
btw...ive run a setup similar to yours...when I went with my m2 set the difference was night and day over stock turbos...I have yet to get on the dyno to compare because of how xs treated my car the last time......Ive NEVER seen numbers like yours down low on stock shaft bearing twins. ever. you are a hundred hp over what most sets are...perhaps you should have it put on another dyno..something is wrong.
something seems off.
Kogi put in the new sensor so he could increase my boost. Yes it is possible to put down power like that down low but it must be tuned for it. Ralph as Excessive Engineering (Portland Or) told be that it could be done. He also said that if he could not tune his own car Kogi is the only person he would let do it.
When I get home I will scan in the chart. Yes I know I am getting about 100 hp more than others down low, and my tq is also great. I have been on the net for two days and have yet to find 1 dyno sheet that will compare to mine down low. Yes after 5000 a few other cars have more power than me, but thats ok. By the time they get to there I will already have saved 1/4 of a second by having the power down low. If I can gain 1/4 sec on somebody just by having the power down low then I will be able to beat the other RX7's that will compete against me in SM2. Remember Atrguy that is specifically what my car is tuned for. I told Kogi I would give up peak hp, just give me everything you can as soon as you can. That is exactly what he did.
Also what makes a difference in what can be done is I run race fuel. I run the K & S Extreme unleded. It is the highest octane unleded you can buy. Octane numbers are 107 at high rpm's and 103 at low rpm's. They use a dual rating system for their fuel. So anyway, Kogi was able to get me the numbers that I was looking for because of the fuel I use. I could not duplicate those on pump gas.
Since I am building the car for race running race fuel is ok. However I do have a lower setting that is when I run on the street. It is for when I mix 50/50 race fuel and 94 premium.
Artguy I can honestly say this. My car was pretty fast before. No on a national level I could not win. Now I know why, there is no way my car in its previous condition could even compete with my car now.
I took a friend for a short ride on the street with my Hoosier racing slicks. Man is it a beast, and in 2nd when the 2nd turbo kicks in it spins the tires, and rememer these are the sticky Hoosier autox slicks.
The car is incredible. Just come out to one of the National Autox's in the NW or Calif and I will take you for a ride. My goal is to win the nationals this year in SM2, and now I have the power to compete.
Allan
j
01-19-03, 04:55 PM
#23
mythical Unicorn
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Boost
Originally posted by artguy
how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
how does the injector duty cycle control spoolup time?? do you mean solonoid??
btw...ive run a setup similar to yours...when I went with my m2 set the difference was night and day over stock turbos...I have yet to get on the dyno to compare because of how xs treated my car the last time......Ive NEVER seen numbers like yours down low on stock shaft bearing twins. ever. you are a hundred hp over what most sets are...perhaps you should have it put on another dyno..something is wrong.
something seems off.
Reply
Kogi put in the new sensor so he could increase my boost. Yes it is possible to put down power like that down low but it must be tuned for it. Ralph as Excessive Engineering (Portland Or) told be that it could be done. He also said that if he could not tune his own car Kogi is the only person he would let do it.
When I get home I will scan in the chart. Yes I know I am getting about 100 hp more than others down low, and my tq is also great. I have been on the net for two days and have yet to find 1 dyno sheet that will compare to mine down low. Yes after 5000 a few other cars have more power than me, but thats ok. Look at any other sheet on our forum and see if you can find one with more power at 4700 than mine. Approx 320 hp and 285 torque. By the time they get to there I will already have saved 1/4 of a second by having the power down low. If I can gain 1/4 sec on somebody just by having the power down low then I will be able to beat the other RX7's that will compete against me in SM2. Remember Atrguy that is specifically what my car is tuned for. I told Kogi I would give up peak hp, just give me everything you can as soon as you can. That is exactly what he did.
Also what makes a difference in what can be done is I run race fuel. I run the K & S Extreme unleded. It is the highest octane unleded you can buy. Octane numbers are 107 at high rpm's and 103 at low rpm's. They use a dual rating system for their fuel. So anyway, Kogi was able to get me the numbers that I was looking for because of the fuel I use. I could not duplicate those on pump gas.
Since I am building the car for race running race fuel is ok. However I do have a lower setting that is when I run on the street. It is for when I mix 50/50 race fuel and 94 premium.
Artguy I can honestly say this. My car was pretty fast before. No on a national level I could not win. Now I know why, there is no way my car in its previous condition could even compete with my car now.
I took a friend for a short ride on the street with my Hoosier racing slicks. Man is it a beast, and in 2nd when the 2nd turbo kicks in it spins the tires, and rememer these are the sticky Hoosier autox slicks.
The car is incredible. Just come out to one of the National Autox's in the NW or Calif and I will take you for a ride. My goal is to win the nationals this year in SM2, and now I have the power to compete.
Allan
j
how are you running that much boost on the stock map sensor? if you dont have a 3bar map sensor then you are not getting accuracy with the stock two bar at that boost level. your pushing it.
how does the injector duty cycle control spoolup time?? do you mean solonoid??
btw...ive run a setup similar to yours...when I went with my m2 set the difference was night and day over stock turbos...I have yet to get on the dyno to compare because of how xs treated my car the last time......Ive NEVER seen numbers like yours down low on stock shaft bearing twins. ever. you are a hundred hp over what most sets are...perhaps you should have it put on another dyno..something is wrong.
something seems off.
Reply
Kogi put in the new sensor so he could increase my boost. Yes it is possible to put down power like that down low but it must be tuned for it. Ralph as Excessive Engineering (Portland Or) told be that it could be done. He also said that if he could not tune his own car Kogi is the only person he would let do it.
When I get home I will scan in the chart. Yes I know I am getting about 100 hp more than others down low, and my tq is also great. I have been on the net for two days and have yet to find 1 dyno sheet that will compare to mine down low. Yes after 5000 a few other cars have more power than me, but thats ok. Look at any other sheet on our forum and see if you can find one with more power at 4700 than mine. Approx 320 hp and 285 torque. By the time they get to there I will already have saved 1/4 of a second by having the power down low. If I can gain 1/4 sec on somebody just by having the power down low then I will be able to beat the other RX7's that will compete against me in SM2. Remember Atrguy that is specifically what my car is tuned for. I told Kogi I would give up peak hp, just give me everything you can as soon as you can. That is exactly what he did.
Also what makes a difference in what can be done is I run race fuel. I run the K & S Extreme unleded. It is the highest octane unleded you can buy. Octane numbers are 107 at high rpm's and 103 at low rpm's. They use a dual rating system for their fuel. So anyway, Kogi was able to get me the numbers that I was looking for because of the fuel I use. I could not duplicate those on pump gas.
Since I am building the car for race running race fuel is ok. However I do have a lower setting that is when I run on the street. It is for when I mix 50/50 race fuel and 94 premium.
Artguy I can honestly say this. My car was pretty fast before. No on a national level I could not win. Now I know why, there is no way my car in its previous condition could even compete with my car now.
I took a friend for a short ride on the street with my Hoosier racing slicks. Man is it a beast, and in 2nd when the 2nd turbo kicks in it spins the tires, and rememer these are the sticky Hoosier autox slicks.
The car is incredible. Just come out to one of the National Autox's in the NW or Calif and I will take you for a ride. My goal is to win the nationals this year in SM2, and now I have the power to compete.
Allan
j
01-19-03, 05:00 PM
#24
mythical Unicorn
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FMIC Choice
Originally posted by mp5
Spank, how does the the FMIC work for you in regards of underhood temps?most road racers use the SMIC to keep from underhood temps tolerable.
You chose a front mount, I,m interested why? and are the gains you get with a bigger IC are worth the higher temps? thanks.
Spank, how does the the FMIC work for you in regards of underhood temps?most road racers use the SMIC to keep from underhood temps tolerable.
You chose a front mount, I,m interested why? and are the gains you get with a bigger IC are worth the higher temps? thanks.
The FMIC will not let that happen. Your hp will stay the same run after run. I can tell you that I can look at my temps just before I leave the line, then look at them when I come back. My temps will be lower when I come back than when I left.
The FMIC is money well spent if you autox and want consistency.
Allan
01-19-03, 05:08 PM
#25
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Originally posted by RX7Elmo
Also, what size injectors and duty cycle? I would assume you are at or near static conditions running 100% duty cycle. And what is your fuel pressure at?
Danny
Also, what size injectors and duty cycle? I would assume you are at or near static conditions running 100% duty cycle. And what is your fuel pressure at?
Danny
I have a motto, let the people that specialize do their job and I will do mine.
Pettit built motor. I think they are outstanding in that field.
Tri-Point suspension. I think suspension is what they do best.
XS Engineering Tuning. For tuning the power FC they are also in the top few.
So I let the people who are good at what they do, do their job. I drive the car and try not to mess with someone elses work. I will adjust suspension if the handling is not right, and I may change the duty cycle for quicker spool up but that is it.
Some guys on here are outstanding at doing their own work. I have raced for years in some form or another. I have learned long ago that if you are not really good at tuning, don't mess with it or you may have a problem that you cannot fix.
Long winded.
Allan