Xcessive Lower Inlet Manifold
12-11-08, 02:00 AM
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Xcessive Lower Inlet Manifold
Okay here's the question. I have a modified 1993 Japanese RX7 Type R. Running BNR Twins, Bigger Secondary injectors, street ported, Apexi CPU, SR Motorsports Intercooler, straight through mid pipe, bigger down pipe and loads of other mods. Produces a solid 380 bhp.
I want the car to be driveable i.e. not run like a dog or be trouble in stop start traffic.
I want to know whta the benefits are (Power and driveability) of having an Xcessive Lower Inlet Manifold fitted.
I've read a few threads but they give little info regarding the possible power gains (are there any). Getting a re-tune is no problem.
Is this a mod that will fit with my BNRs, is it going to leave me with a lumpy running car or should this help liberate more power and if so, what are we looking at....roughly!
I want the car to be driveable i.e. not run like a dog or be trouble in stop start traffic.
I want to know whta the benefits are (Power and driveability) of having an Xcessive Lower Inlet Manifold fitted.
I've read a few threads but they give little info regarding the possible power gains (are there any). Getting a re-tune is no problem.
Is this a mod that will fit with my BNRs, is it going to leave me with a lumpy running car or should this help liberate more power and if so, what are we looking at....roughly!
12-11-08, 03:01 AM
#2
looking for 82-83 corolla
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as far as fitting i know they will work with the stock twins with some slight grinding here and there to clear the primary compressor housing and crossover tube as well as bending the coolant feed line.
there is a write up that i know of for this exact thing with pics but it is not on this forums if i remember correctly and if i post the forum here this post could get deleted so i wont.
but as far as performance gains it flows if i remember 10-15% more air than stock but the major design behind it is to even out the air flow to the front and rear rotors by replacing the unequal stock LIM. if i remember right rear runs richer with the stock<------someone correct me if this is wrong.
it also allows you to run up to 6 injectors but your setup dosent really warrent that benefit.
z
there is a write up that i know of for this exact thing with pics but it is not on this forums if i remember correctly and if i post the forum here this post could get deleted so i wont.
but as far as performance gains it flows if i remember 10-15% more air than stock but the major design behind it is to even out the air flow to the front and rear rotors by replacing the unequal stock LIM. if i remember right rear runs richer with the stock<------someone correct me if this is wrong.
it also allows you to run up to 6 injectors but your setup dosent really warrent that benefit.
z
12-11-08, 09:55 AM
#3
It will mount up with your twins.
It has equal length and diameter runners. It also has 4 injector bungs (1 per runner) this allows you to run more injectors (allowing you more injector combos for better pri/ sec transition) on your BNR configuration.
From what I have read you see marginal gains with the xcessive LIM, but it is more of a helper when tuning. I've also read that with a bored throttle body youake more power.
But just as of lately, I have also heard that this LIM was designed with single turbos in mind, and that there isn't a whole lot of benefit of using them on twins.
The guys that designed this LIM are here locally, so I'll ask them directly.
It has equal length and diameter runners. It also has 4 injector bungs (1 per runner) this allows you to run more injectors (allowing you more injector combos for better pri/ sec transition) on your BNR configuration.
From what I have read you see marginal gains with the xcessive LIM, but it is more of a helper when tuning. I've also read that with a bored throttle body youake more power.
But just as of lately, I have also heard that this LIM was designed with single turbos in mind, and that there isn't a whole lot of benefit of using them on twins.
The guys that designed this LIM are here locally, so I'll ask them directly.
12-11-08, 07:08 PM
#4
What has been said above really sums it up. Main advantage is the equal length runners which makes tuning easier and even out EGT's between rotors pretty straight forward. FWIW, I really like mine. Be prepared to bend/modify your oil filler neck as the UIM, TB and all associated parts will be moved forward a few centimeters. I cannot attest to how it fits with the twins b/c I am single turbo.
12-11-08, 09:16 PM
#5
I have an Xcessive LIM sitting in my parts pile and some BNR stage 3's on the way. I will be sure to post plenty of pictures mid next year as to how fitment and such goes. And I also purchased the RE-Speed Oil Filler Neck to accommodate the forward move of the UIM and TB.
12-12-08, 01:36 AM
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Thanks fellas, sounds like more of a tuning aid, interesting comment regarding the larger throttle body, which is a further mod that I have considered. Be intersted in any other info Sk8erpunk that you may be able to find out.
Also interesting that no one appears to has (as yet) any direct experience with Twins and the LIM.
Also interesting that no one appears to has (as yet) any direct experience with Twins and the LIM.
12-12-08, 08:23 AM
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some peoples kids
http://******************/rotary_for...ead.php?t=5496
z
see what did i tell you its blocked
HAHA he didnt make a thread here but "Chadwick" here on the forums has done it completed...cant do much more than that for you. its up to you from here.
http://******************/rotary_for...ead.php?t=5496
z
see what did i tell you its blocked
HAHA he didnt make a thread here but "Chadwick" here on the forums has done it completed...cant do much more than that for you. its up to you from here.
Last edited by proz07; 12-12-08 at 08:43 AM.
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12-16-08, 08:22 PM
#8
I have a write up on another forum but here is the mods that need to be made:
Using an Xcessive LIM with 99 or stock twins:
Getting the 99 twins to fit with the Xcessive LIM took a little bit of work. There are several things that don’t allow them to bolt right up. Here is a list of modifications that need to be made:
Getting the 99 twins to fit with the Xcessive LIM took a little bit of work. There are several things that don’t allow them to bolt right up. Here is a list of modifications that need to be made:
Oil and Water supply lines need to be bent to clear the front side of the LIM
Primary turbo compressor housing needs to be cocked about 5 degrees out for the piping to fit. Fortunately the Pre-Control and Waste Gate actuators do not need modification if you don’t over do the rotation.
Oil fill neck needs to be heated and bent forward about ½” (thanks Rich for this tip).
UIM front bracket needs to be bent about ½” towards the front of the motor and the slot lowered (I did this with a dremel)
Secondary turbo needs about ¼” shaved off the compressor housing to avoid contacting the LIM.
Heat shield needs to be hammered in on the back of the turbo to avoid contact with the LIM.
Vacuum hard lines need to be bent to avoid the new position of the oil and water turbo supply lines.
Primary turbo compressor housing needs to be cocked about 5 degrees out for the piping to fit. Fortunately the Pre-Control and Waste Gate actuators do not need modification if you don’t over do the rotation.
Oil fill neck needs to be heated and bent forward about ½” (thanks Rich for this tip).
UIM front bracket needs to be bent about ½” towards the front of the motor and the slot lowered (I did this with a dremel)
Secondary turbo needs about ¼” shaved off the compressor housing to avoid contacting the LIM.
Heat shield needs to be hammered in on the back of the turbo to avoid contact with the LIM.
Vacuum hard lines need to be bent to avoid the new position of the oil and water turbo supply lines.
12-17-08, 10:12 AM
#10
I have a set of BNR's at the shop and a motor with the Excessive LIM on the engine stand so I will confirm this tomorrow.
Dan
12-18-08, 08:47 PM
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I am in the boat of "the excessive lower intake manifold is a silly idea for most any application". I think, maybe, it lowers low end torque, and maybe makes some more hp in the top, but then i think, maybe i dont want that switcheroo. Then i think, maybe 4 real big intake runners that are fed by the same throttle likely wont increase air flow into my engine? Then i think maybe the stock one is ok if this mysterious "upgrade" costs like $500? Wow thats a lot for maybe nothing in gains? Strange i think.
12-18-08, 09:03 PM
#14
The biggest benifit is to have equal length intake runners equalizing the EGT's. If you port match everything, there shouldn't be a loss of low-end torque and would probably give you more. If you get it as part of a series of upgrades its much better then buying it all alone.
thewird
thewird
12-19-08, 12:47 AM
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perhaps you are right. Maybe you are not. I dont know, i havent seen numbers. The numbers dont lie. I'll tell you what. If you want to buy me one and then pay steve kan to retune my car with it on and see if more hp comes out of it, i'm game. Otherwise i dont really like to gamble with $500 which is what i consider that part, a gamble. I'm just not convinced that it does anything. If you know, it goes something like front rotor runs lean under light throttle and rear rotor runs lean under full throttle. What you do is tune for the leanest rotor. Not really a big deal. I dont really know if $500 is worth just tuning for the leanest rotor which can be recognized with dual digital egt's which i would buy way before that weird intake manifold. Hmm.... why the hell would i run 6 injectors anyway? That just seems kind of .....excessive? Oh how punny....lol
12-19-08, 12:55 AM
#17
6 injectors are useful if your running an alternative fuel like E85. E85 because you need ~33% more fuel to get the same power and you can also run rediculous boost so you need even more.
As for equalizing EGT's being worth it. Even if you can correct that with dual EGT's, each rotor is going to be making different power so it is creating stress on the internals that connect the 2. This is more important on a 3 or 4 rotor but there is some stress there.
Also, yes it can give more power, but its not as simple as just bolting it on, although in some cases it might be. Your best efforts come from creating an equal port from throttle body to engine ports.
thewird
As for equalizing EGT's being worth it. Even if you can correct that with dual EGT's, each rotor is going to be making different power so it is creating stress on the internals that connect the 2. This is more important on a 3 or 4 rotor but there is some stress there.
Also, yes it can give more power, but its not as simple as just bolting it on, although in some cases it might be. Your best efforts come from creating an equal port from throttle body to engine ports.
thewird
12-19-08, 02:15 AM
#18
perhaps you are right. Maybe you are not. I dont know, i havent seen numbers. The numbers dont lie. I'll tell you what. If you want to buy me one and then pay steve kan to retune my car with it on and see if more hp comes out of it, i'm game. Otherwise i dont really like to gamble with $500 which is what i consider that part, a gamble. I'm just not convinced that it does anything. If you know, it goes something like front rotor runs lean under light throttle and rear rotor runs lean under full throttle. What you do is tune for the leanest rotor. Not really a big deal. I dont really know if $500 is worth just tuning for the leanest rotor which can be recognized with dual digital egt's which i would buy way before that weird intake manifold. Hmm.... why the hell would i run 6 injectors anyway? That just seems kind of .....excessive? Oh how punny....lol
Wow dude. Lay off the alcohol and lighten the attitude. Your posts have yet to be useful in this thread.
The primary benefit of the Xcessive LIM is to have EQUAL flow into each rotor housing. The stock one is very imbalanced.
I have a blown engine in my garage that exemplifies this imbalance. One rotor is literally caked with carbon, and the other is perfectly clean. Common to happen to an engine that is never ran hard.
Unless you have an ECU that can tune each injector separately... (Which the PFC does NOT do) then you need to balance the flow for optimum performance. A dual EGT will only tell you which rotor is the leanest, which means you will have to run one of your rotors too rich to have the other prime.
And really, balanced flow has already been proven, not just in the FD. If you balance flow, you get optimum performance.
Good day.
Chadwick, Thanks you for your input. You have been a great resource!
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