Wideband tuning finally affordable?
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RE-Amemiya in the blood
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Wideband tuning finally affordable?
I just read that the Rx-8 is using a wideband O2 sensor for it's mass air flow meter. Maybe it can be cheaply incorporated into the Rx-7? I don't mean it being super-cheap, but it just seems that people are depending on the stock O2 sensor too much and this might be a good upgrade once the Rx-8 comes out...?
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From: San Lorenzo, California
You can already get a wideband 02 sensor for only $160, I doubt the RX-8 sensor will be cheaper than that. Actually, you can get a whole wideband datalogging set-up for only $700 from FJO or Techedge.
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RE-Amemiya in the blood
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From: Ottawa, Canada
$700 is still WAY up there...I know you can get it down to at least $500 or so...I still think that's too expensive for a sensor and cheap electronics. I'm not cheap, just like to get what I pay for. Also, I was curious about what Jonski asked - can't any of these sensors be hooked up to existing computers? I mean otherwise it defeats the purpose of tuning yourself...
Last edited by daem0n; Mar 26, 2003 at 08:42 PM.
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From: Pockyville
Originally posted by daem0n
$700 is still WAY up there...I know you can get it down to at least $500 or so...I still think that's too expensive for a sensor and cheap electronics. I'm not cheap, just like to get what I pay for.
$700 is still WAY up there...I know you can get it down to at least $500 or so...I still think that's too expensive for a sensor and cheap electronics. I'm not cheap, just like to get what I pay for.
Every time you hit the dyno you probably burn $100-150.... plus you really never know if the dyno tune is right for the street. Street loads are much heavier than a dyno load.
I for one will never own a high powered turbo car again without a wideband.
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From: Southwest Missouri
would a wideband 02 hooked up to an a/f gauge be accurate? i dont really need datalogging right now, as i am on the stock computer...but i'd like accurate a/f readings with my apexi auto timer (with built in a/f meter)
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From: Pockyville
Originally posted by racerfoo
would a wideband 02 hooked up to an a/f gauge be accurate? i dont really need datalogging right now, as i am on the stock computer...but i'd like accurate a/f readings with my apexi auto timer (with built in a/f meter)
would a wideband 02 hooked up to an a/f gauge be accurate? i dont really need datalogging right now, as i am on the stock computer...but i'd like accurate a/f readings with my apexi auto timer (with built in a/f meter)
In order for a wideband to function properly the heating circuit has to be very robust and precise. When sensors fall out of a specific temp range their accuracy diminishes.
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From: San Lorenzo, California
Originally posted by JONSKI
rynberg,
Are talking about the Honda 5-wire or is there something else?
Can a Power FC or AEM EMS be used with the sensor you were referring to?
rynberg,
Are talking about the Honda 5-wire or is there something else?
Can a Power FC or AEM EMS be used with the sensor you were referring to?
You can check it out at: http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive/products.htm
A good vendor is: www.widebandO2.com
Daemon: I don't know what to tell you. The FJO kit does not come with cheap electronics. You are talking about purchasing a wideband for $700 that is as accurate as a dyno wideband costing well over $1000. You got to pay to play. My Racing Beat exhaust lists for over $500, this isn't much more than that....
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From: Hawaii
Originally posted by Jim Swantko
Pop your motor and that $700 investment will seem like peanuts.
Every time you hit the dyno you probably burn $100-150.... plus you really never know if the dyno tune is right for the street. Street loads are much heavier than a dyno load.
I for one will never own a high powered turbo car again without a wideband.
Pop your motor and that $700 investment will seem like peanuts.
Every time you hit the dyno you probably burn $100-150.... plus you really never know if the dyno tune is right for the street. Street loads are much heavier than a dyno load.
I for one will never own a high powered turbo car again without a wideband.
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From: Southern Illinois
Best bang for the buck.
Cheap-easy-effective
great support
http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm
Cheap-easy-effective
great support
http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm
To expand on what rynberg said, the wideband cotroller will have an analog out that can be run into an input on the FC-Datalogit or other dataloging device. Running a wideband directly to the PowerFC would be pretty much pointless, it wouldnt know what to do with the data. the wideband puts out information that you want to log so that you can compare it to things like engine rpm and boost.
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From: Southern Illinois
Jonski
The L1H1 has a life expectency of 60K miles or so. MUCH shorter if you place it too close to the turbo output. The L1H1 should NEVER see temps above 750C.
Tom93R1
Not completely accurate.
The OZ DIY unit v1.5 has the ability to output a simulated narrow band signal (0-1.0 V) which a standard AFR meter (AutoMeter etc) can use for "closed loop" mode reference purposes, and also can be used by an ECU. This is not a suggested course of action for the beginner. You have to check and recheck the outputs and calibrate the WB electronics before you even think about feeding the output to the ECU.
Here is a quote from Peter of TE
"Fooling your ECU .. can be dangerous to your car's health.
----------------------------------------------------------
BE WARNED you do so at your own risk.
As shipped, the NB output MAY BE CLOSE to switching at 14.7, but WE DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT IT DOES - YOU MUST CHECK THIS YOURSELF.
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to use the NB output then you can expect to have to open the case and fiddle with the pot to set it precisely to what you want as it's possible to fool the ECU to run very rich or very lean mixtures in closed loop operation when it thinks it's running at stoic. And the effect may persist or may even be reversed (which
could be worse), AFTER you revert back to your original sensor, as most ECUs will "learn" a new operating point over a period of time."
Hope that clears up the issue
The L1H1 has a life expectency of 60K miles or so. MUCH shorter if you place it too close to the turbo output. The L1H1 should NEVER see temps above 750C.
Tom93R1
Originally posted by Tom93R1
Running a wideband directly to the PowerFC would be pretty much pointless, it wouldnt know what to do with the data. .
Running a wideband directly to the PowerFC would be pretty much pointless, it wouldnt know what to do with the data. .
The OZ DIY unit v1.5 has the ability to output a simulated narrow band signal (0-1.0 V) which a standard AFR meter (AutoMeter etc) can use for "closed loop" mode reference purposes, and also can be used by an ECU. This is not a suggested course of action for the beginner. You have to check and recheck the outputs and calibrate the WB electronics before you even think about feeding the output to the ECU.
Here is a quote from Peter of TE
"Fooling your ECU .. can be dangerous to your car's health.
----------------------------------------------------------
BE WARNED you do so at your own risk.
As shipped, the NB output MAY BE CLOSE to switching at 14.7, but WE DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT IT DOES - YOU MUST CHECK THIS YOURSELF.
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to use the NB output then you can expect to have to open the case and fiddle with the pot to set it precisely to what you want as it's possible to fool the ECU to run very rich or very lean mixtures in closed loop operation when it thinks it's running at stoic. And the effect may persist or may even be reversed (which
could be worse), AFTER you revert back to your original sensor, as most ECUs will "learn" a new operating point over a period of time."
Hope that clears up the issue
Last edited by jeff48; Mar 27, 2003 at 06:59 PM.
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From: Houston
Originally posted by Jim Swantko
No... the sensor is only part of the equation. The major cost of the wideband set-up is the circuitry that controls the heating of the sensor.
In order for a wideband to function properly the heating circuit has to be very robust and precise. When sensors fall out of a specific temp range their accuracy diminishes.
No... the sensor is only part of the equation. The major cost of the wideband set-up is the circuitry that controls the heating of the sensor.
In order for a wideband to function properly the heating circuit has to be very robust and precise. When sensors fall out of a specific temp range their accuracy diminishes.
Anyways, I will be getting an IC in a little while, then I need to get tuned. From reading this, it looks like it is wideband time. Tech Edge appears to be the most affordable...
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From: Pockyville
Originally posted by PVerdieck
OK. If you get the right setup, after you are tuned and happy, can you hook an A/F gauge up to the wideband output, so you don't have to settle for a dorky LED display???
Anyways, I will be getting an IC in a little while, then I need to get tuned. From reading this, it looks like it is wideband time. Tech Edge appears to be the most affordable...
OK. If you get the right setup, after you are tuned and happy, can you hook an A/F gauge up to the wideband output, so you don't have to settle for a dorky LED display???
Anyways, I will be getting an IC in a little while, then I need to get tuned. From reading this, it looks like it is wideband time. Tech Edge appears to be the most affordable...
BTW... the display isn't very dorky looking IMO. Take a look at mine. It's the green display over the tach btw.
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From: Hawaii
so you guys are telling me that its ok/worth it to risk a 3-5k engine on a 500 dollar product which saves you about 500-700 bucks compared to a true professional wideband??? Personnaly I would not go for the diy one but its your car/money so do what ya wanna do.
Originally posted by skunks
so you guys are telling me that its ok/worth it to risk a 3-5k engine on a 500 dollar product which saves you about 500-700 bucks compared to a true professional wideband??? Personnaly I would not go for the diy one but its your car/money so do what ya wanna do.
so you guys are telling me that its ok/worth it to risk a 3-5k engine on a 500 dollar product which saves you about 500-700 bucks compared to a true professional wideband??? Personnaly I would not go for the diy one but its your car/money so do what ya wanna do.
The fjo, techedge, motec all use the same ntk 5 wire sensor. I think most of the other widebands use the same sensor as well.
what do you consider a true professional wideband?
the diy techedge is not so much a diy anymore, you can order fully built units that you install like any other.
I can say I trust what my wideband is telling me along with egts under boost. If I get a chance I am going
to run a local guys 1500 wideband to see what the diff in readings are.
James,
93 mb
HKS singleturbo, Marvelspeed ported motor, haltech e6k. ect....
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From: San Lorenzo, California
Originally posted by skunks
so you guys are telling me that its ok/worth it to risk a 3-5k engine on a 500 dollar product which saves you about 500-700 bucks compared to a true professional wideband??? Personnaly I would not go for the diy one but its your car/money so do what ya wanna do.
so you guys are telling me that its ok/worth it to risk a 3-5k engine on a 500 dollar product which saves you about 500-700 bucks compared to a true professional wideband??? Personnaly I would not go for the diy one but its your car/money so do what ya wanna do.
Other forum members have verified that the FJO and TechEdge are reporting the same A/F values as the dyno wideband.
More info on the 'DIY' wideband, and wideband and it's use in general:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&highlight=DIY
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...t=diy+wideband
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=120126
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...t=diy+wideband
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&highlight=DIY
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...t=diy+wideband
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=120126
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...t=diy+wideband
I'm a CF and poop smith
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From: Hawaii
Originally posted by mako
The fjo, techedge, motec all use the same ntk 5 wire sensor. I think most of the other widebands use the same sensor as well.
what do you consider a true professional wideband?
the diy techedge is not so much a diy anymore, you can order fully built units that you install like any other.
I can say I trust what my wideband is telling me along with egts under boost. If I get a chance I am going
to run a local guys 1500 wideband to see what the diff in readings are.
James,
93 mb
HKS singleturbo, Marvelspeed ported motor, haltech e6k. ect....
The fjo, techedge, motec all use the same ntk 5 wire sensor. I think most of the other widebands use the same sensor as well.
what do you consider a true professional wideband?
the diy techedge is not so much a diy anymore, you can order fully built units that you install like any other.
I can say I trust what my wideband is telling me along with egts under boost. If I get a chance I am going
to run a local guys 1500 wideband to see what the diff in readings are.
James,
93 mb
HKS singleturbo, Marvelspeed ported motor, haltech e6k. ect....
i dont trust the quality of the diy ones (probally cuz i dont trust myself or a random guy in austraila to put it together hehe).
in anycase, i trust motec; If its good enuf for champ/cart cars, JGTC, la man cars... its good enuf for me. When I start to see these types of cars moving over to the diy ones which are only 500-700 bucks cheaper, I might consider going with them although I'll still probally get the motec unit
BTW: They don't use the same ntk 5 wire sensor!
Like I said, it's your money/engine/car, more power to you if you don't pop your enigne!
from the info I have the motec works with both the ntk and bosch lsu sensors. I think the techedge people are working on a new version that will use both sensors as well.
Compatible Types: - Bosch LSU / NTK UEGO
at least thats what this sight says. http://www.motec.com.au/plmspecs.htm
I am somewhat on a budget so I can not afford to spend over 1k on a wideband. enough people have used the techedge one for me to feel comfortable in using it. But I can understand some people not wanting to use it because its cheaper. I have been happy with the quailty of the techedge i have, and they have great support for there product.
I have put over 10k miles on my single turbo setup with daily driving the car and have had good luck so far.
I am not supporting any company so buy whatever you feel most confident in.
James
Compatible Types: - Bosch LSU / NTK UEGO
at least thats what this sight says. http://www.motec.com.au/plmspecs.htm
I am somewhat on a budget so I can not afford to spend over 1k on a wideband. enough people have used the techedge one for me to feel comfortable in using it. But I can understand some people not wanting to use it because its cheaper. I have been happy with the quailty of the techedge i have, and they have great support for there product.
I have put over 10k miles on my single turbo setup with daily driving the car and have had good luck so far.
I am not supporting any company so buy whatever you feel most confident in.
James
