I wonder what seals were just put in my engine....
*calling the shop*

 

Just got off the phone with Ari....he said he has heard of no issues at all with these seals, and that RP has had no problemos with them. That's good news for those of us running them. Maybe it's just a bad recent batch?

 

I've heard from my engine builder with 29years of experience with rotaries.. and he acturally suggested using 2 piece vs. 3 piece for higher boost.. And suggested oem new seals vs. other non oem seals...... I'm curious to know how many of you used the OEM 2 piece and noticed failure.. Everything my builder told me sounded reasonable.. hence bought a set of 2 piece seals when I already had new 3 piece in hand.

 

Check this out:

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...howtopic=44700

 

I have watched a couple motors fail on the dyno with these seals installed. My friend and I have been posting about this for the past 6 months on nopistons, including pictures of the damaged seals. I have spoken to several different shops about this.

Here is what I have observed:
The exhaust port shape may have an impact on how the seals hold up.
-At least one of the builders that is having a problem with the seals uses a reverse D shaped port, meaning the port gradually opens, but has a flat upper edge.
-Another builder that uses a rectangular shaped port has had no problem running these seals at more than 25psi.
The problem does not seem to occur below 13.5psi
-My friend's last two motors didn't start losing compression until dyno pulls were done above 13.5psi. We did about an hour's worth of pulls below 13.5 without a problem and as soon as we went slightly over that the motor began losing compression.
The crowned section of the seals that passes over the exhaust port is worn down to a point on the engines that have lost compression, but the sections outside the exhaust port have no damage

bear in mind that these inferences are based on anecdotal evidence only.

I am in the process of assembling a spreadsheet of everybody that is using the 2 piece seals with a ported motor. If anybody is interested in contributing to the list please email (CCarlisi@aol.com) or PM me as much of the following information as possible and I will send you back a copy of the list. The list has two purposes. First, to determine what elements the problem motors have in common. Second, I am hoping to hear from some people that haven't had any problem so we can figure out affirmatively what works.

-Name
-exhaust port shape
-engine builder
-tuner
-boost that the problem first started at
-ignition system
-ignition timing where the problem first started
-afr where the problem first started
-contact info if different from email.

 

im also running the RA 2mm seals that i bought at the end of january... i have about 5k miles on the and there is no problems so far..... hopefully, i can get at least 50k out to this motor!

 

What boost levels and what type of port?

 

im runnig the mazda trix 2mm 2pc. apex seals anthing on them?

 

how well do they hold up to high boost?

 

i too am using the new stock oem 2 pc mazda seals, just got my engine done at a reputable shop recently. i had asked about them and my mechanic said they are suppose to be stronger than the 3 pc obviously, but other than that he did not say anything about warping. though i didnt ask about it either.

this read has gotten me all worried, but what i'm getting from this thread is that the 2 pc mazda seals are warping due to heat. either from running some kind of port, or running more than 13.5 lbs of boost. my motor is stock (no porting) and will probably not be running more than 13.5lbs of boost any time soon. do i have to worry much? and if this rumor/fact is true about the seals warping, with stock ports what's the max boost i could run?

chris

 

apneablue,
I did meet you at rotary revolution... I have a T-66 not 35/40. Close enough It's running great thanks for asking. I am very pleased with the performance it has given me so far.

 

propaganda!

 

Surely you can contribute something more valuable to this thread

What's your take on it, Spidey?

 

Has anyone called Mazda to see if the composite was different from original 3 piece??

I just can't imagine getting worse!

 

I just tried to talked to someone at Mazda USA.. I have to tell ya.. They are bunch of idiots working there.. I explained to them of my concern and see if they could find out if the composite for 2 piece was same as 3 piece.. In theory if 2 piece seals are made from same composite, they should handle more power. Anyhow, the guy was trying to transfer me to their tech support ( I didn't know they had one).. Then tells me that he has to email tech support.. He wanted to know what he wanted me to put.. SO, I expained to him I've heard people were experiencing apex seal failure and that at higher boost, people were experiencing greater apex seal failure.. As soon as I said "boost", the guy goes, what boost?? what is stock boost?? etc.. He completely missed my point and said, "these seals are only meant to run stock boost".. So, I tell him that not everyone is running higher boost and experiencing failure.. and that some of us with 10 year old seals could boost higher with no problems.. Still, he was stuck with the 2 piece seals only running stock boost!.. I asked him to transfer me to someone else and he said no.. after 20 minutes of arguing with this idiot, I just hung up with frustration.. So, if anyone has better number for me to contact to find out about the composite info, please let me know..

 

This is the number I dialed..

1-800-222-5500

Guys name is Frank.. ext. 1179

 

been running the 2 piece @ 12psi the past 3k miles, so far so good. we are all guinea pigs to help further advance ourselves.

 

I am talking engineers at Mazda and I am sending them warped seals from a couple of different motors. I will let you know when I hear something...

 

That would be great! I can't wait to find out about these new seals..

 

I just spoke to Chris Ott over at RP in length about these seals. They have had no problems at all, and use them in customer's motors as well as in a high revving (like 11,500 rpms) all motor application. He said that he prefers mazda oem over any of the RA/atkins/hurley stuff. The plot thickens.......

 

Can someone verify any of these "Horror stories" of the RA seals or the new Mazda seals warping or breaking up at high Boost/RPMs ??? I'm doing a rebuild now and I don't want to buy any CRAP !! HELP ME

 

I just got off the phone with my engine builder and he has never experienced any problems with 2 piece seals.. He is as curious as I am about this whole thing..

 

I say check the clearence of the seals to make sure their within spec before installing them. The RA seals that Jon (RX engineering) used had clearencing issues and his seals warped. These 2-piece Mazda seals could very well be experiencing the same problems.

 

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...pic=38498&st=0

Here is the warp damage...

 

Talked to Mazda and the manufacturing process has NOT been changed. The only change is the cut of the seal, 2 piece vs 3 piece. Mazda will not go back to the three piece especially for an out of production vehicle. (cost) We are SOL.
Chris