jpandes

I'm just curious. I recently bought and installed an ASP/M2 large SMIC. I'm wondering just how much rwhp is gained by adding this mod.

Has anyone done a "before-and-after" dyno run, with the IC(any aftermarket IC) being the variable?

Thanks,

John

es

typically around 30 assuming boost controlled is altered to bring it back down to the same level as before the IC install.

I dynoed 265, then installed an IC & did some tuning and pulled 300. Both pulls were 11.5PSI

jpandes

30-35 hp increase!, Really !?@#
That's awesome! Thanks for responding ES.

~ j

Aristo

iTrader: (8)

30-35 hp seems really optimistic. Maybe if you had a really strong fan blowing on the car during the dyno would you see a significant improvement. I would think more like 15, depending on boost level, assuming you are blowing air though it when you test.

es

That was at 12PSI, so at 10PSI the actuall HP increase may be less. Also, exhaust flow mods could make a difference here. If your still have stock components that could make a big difference.

In fact, now that I think back there was probably a catback swap done sometime between those two dyno runs...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You really won't get much straight raw power from just "plugging in" an upgraded IC... You will notice your turbos spooling a little faster, but it's more for added security when running higher boost levels (preventive maintenance from detonation).

jpandes

Bummer, 1500 bucks for preventative maintenance is pretty steep. Oh well.

DK

iTrader: (5)

$1500 for a SMIC?! Good lord.

None of this ricer math for bolt-ons, OK? Thanks!

jpandes

The M2 large SMIC does cost $1495 new, not including the Greddy Elbow or the HAwker mini battery...

check www.m2performance.com

GO B-I-G or GO HOME ! ! !

boostedrotor

i have the m2 large......it makes me hard just looking at it....well worth the 1500 bucks.....no ricer math there.....

JspecFD

iTrader: (2)

Nope, guess again. Facts and empirical data say otherwise. Even theoretically, I'm not sure where you came to your unfounded conclusion. The stock IC system has excessive pressure loss(2.6psi at 12lbs boost vs. 1.1psi for M2 med, SCC tests) and is relatively inefficient because of its diminutive size. In theory, a better IC would be able to reduce pressure loss(allowing the turbos to work less for the same psi at the manifold, hence cooler charged air) AND be able to lower the intake temps closer to ambient. Cooler air should be denser, hence more oxygen and power potential.

From SCC real-world tests, the stock IC resulted in intake temps 84º over ambient compared to 22º for the upgraded M2 medium IC. Thats a 62º difference! On the dyno test, peak hp improved by nearly 20 along with 15lb/ft torque with a max power gain of 25hp/22tq. Here'a another test from M2 comparing the power difference between stage 2 and 3(stage 3 adds the IC for reference). The IC clearly makes a big difference when on the 2nd turbo.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Ok, of couse M2 is going to show charts displaying their product giving an increase in power. Hell, they are trying to sell it aren't they?

Yes, as the boost levels rise, the stock IC is not as effect, hence why people replace it when they run higher boost levels. However, show me the chart at stock boost levels. See if that same increase happens then.

The increase is still dependent on boost levels, so depending on the situation, simply adding an upgraded IC, I seriously doubt is going to show an increase without raising the boost level over stock.

user 84205

00000000000HP hehehe

Nothing really noticable, just helps responce and makes the engine run better....

kwikrx7

From talking to different people about the M2 unit and having the medium M2 - the M2 intercoolers give you about 20 hp as stated above. I noticed the difference in the higher rpms. They also have some of the lowest pressure drops of any intercoolers. I thought I remember the M2 medium having a .5 psi pressure drop. I know fmic's will have much higher since the plumbing is much longer.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Also, I'm sure that increase which M2 is displaying also depends on the rest of the mods to the car (ie, exhaust, intake, etc).

What were the mods on the car that was dyno'd?

user 84205

OOPS I got to add my mod list too.....

I changed my Intercooler after I changed to my TO4 and didnt notice much, just better responce.. BUT not any actual HP... GOOD FOR U if you got some though...

jimlab

Anyone ready for the facts?

Assuming all else stays equal, including boost level, you should see approximately 1% increase in power for each 10 degrees Faranheit you can reduce the temperature of the air going into the engine.

An aftermarket intercooler will make more power, especially at higher temperatures where the stock intercooler can no longer cool effectively and becomes heat soaked. Because of this, even a completely stock (with the exception of the IC) 3rd gen. would benefit from an aftermarket intercooler to some degree.

Because the stock IC is so horribly inadequate, an aftermarket intercooler will not only help make more power, but it's also a good insurance policy, giving you a larger margin of error by cooling the incoming air. The cooler the air, the less chance, assuming adequate fuel is being injected, of pre-ignition/detonation.

And finally, a fringe benefit of a design like the M2 intercoolers is that they also have lower pressure drop across the core, so you'll see a "free" increase in boost (about 1 psi, or so) as a bonus if your exhaust is free flowing enough.

JspecFD

iTrader: (2)

I provided 2 sources of data and they both correlate each other. Pointing out possible bias in one is irrelevent especially if you are unable to provide any data to the contrary.

No you don't seem to understand at all. Please go back and reread what I wrote. Also, go reference scuderiaciriani and read up some more on IC data there. Take particular note of the Spearco core IC testing.

In brief, the stock IC CANNOT cool charged air anywhere close to ambient plus will get hotter charged air to begin with. A large IC will get cooler air to begin with AND will cool it LOTS MORE as well. Thats why you'll get more hp at the same boost level with the upgraded IC.

JspecFD

iTrader: (2)

Seems like anyone who has actually added the IC has noticed the difference
Anyway, scuderiaciriani lists the Spearco test data as 0.6psi for the M2 medium. Note that test was done just on the core and at 10psi. The SCC tests were done at a couple pounds higher pressure and apparently involved more than just the core, hence the higher readings.

jspecracer7

With my SMIC(aftermarket), I would NEVER hit boost cut. Boost was always being limited by the IC and I noticed that the air intake temps would get to the 70 Celsius range after 3 or 4 hard runs!....so I switched to my Feed FMIC.

After installation and as soon as I warmed up her up and took her for a spin, I immediately noticed the difference...especially when I hit boost cut! The stock IC piping has WAY too many bends to be "effecient". Even a small SMIC may prove ineffecient. Also, the POWER was so strong...it was EXTREMELY noticeable...

On an added note, I went out last night and did some SERIOUS racing....like 20+ minutes WOT in 3rd/4th gear...air intake temps never reached above 45 Celsius...

artguy

the stock ic is like the boston stranglers hands....it chokes the hell out of everything in its path.

the difference between my m2 large and the stock junk is incredible...it was like my car was breathing through a straw before(though i did not know it then)...now it breathes free...it feels more responsive as well. it is really able to breathe now and since my turbos dont have to crank out sixteen lbs of boost to see fourteen. there is actually a lot less heat from the turbos at that boost level too...and since ive lost two sets of turbos and two motors from heat the temp drops are like gold.

the ic was SO worth the 1500 bucks they charge...plus like the guy above said...its FRIGGEN SEXY AS HELL. ...I love hearing "what the **** is that thing...holy ****!!!" hahahahah opening up the hood and seeing that sucker is like pulling up a girls shirt....it really is. yum!

my car looks mostly stock...but as soon as I pop the hood the comments of "is it stock..or whatta ya got done?" come to a halt. IT LOOKS SERIOUS...heheheh

too bad most the ladies dont appreciate such things...I definitely appreciate my m2 large 34DD's.


j

boostedrotor

yeah, my car looks basically stock too, until you open the hood.......and that's the way i like it......btw way, the m2 large = 38ddd's.........

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Take a look at Jim's post. I'm sure everyone will notice that 1% increase... I doubt people will get THAT much cooling to make more than a few percent difference at most with IDEAL conditions.

As I said, people will notice the turbo response better (quicker spooling), but doubtful they are going to notice any power.

Thxbrett

iTrader: (1)

If you beleive Jimlabs post to be accurate you will see that just with temp drops alone the M2 Med intercooler made approx 15 horsepower over the factory unit( 1% power increase for every 10 degree dropped going to the motor) Plus the added power from less pressure drop and I can assure you that and additional 1.5 psi will make power with that more efficient intercooler. Right around 20-25 horsepower as the dyno chart shows. Artguy has the M2 upgraded turbos and was having trouble boosting them to their potential and complaining about lag. He installed the M2 Large intercooler at my urging and it made a significant difference over his factory clogged potato intercooler. Their is power to be had with an efficient upgraded intercooler on the FD.
My 2 cents.

Wade

iTrader: (1)

I couldn't really tell a difference when switching from stock IC to M2 large. The M2 large gets heat soaked in traffic just like stock, and if driving the car REALLY hard, it gets heat soaked then too. And of course, on the highway, it gets cool, just like the stock IC.

It is really hard to quantify a hp increase with an intercooler, because if everything else is equal, the improvement would be neglibile (perhaps 5 hp).

Wade