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So does anyone really know much about these? I know we've talked here and there about them, but no one has ever put them through there paces and spoke about them. Supposedly Hitachi made them special. Maybe these are the actual "sp" turbos? I thought RX7 sp ran 99 efini turbos.
They do not have abradable housings from what I am told and have no "insert" at all. Just the compressor side that was upgraded. I was told these can run whatever boost they will make. Obviously we have the issue with manifold, but from a reliability standpoint I was told these were much better than the 99 efini at higher boost.
16+psi no issue for the turbos.
Anyway, not wanting to kick a dead horse, but does anyone have any real info? Not just what one has heard? I am just suprised like even Banzai never ran them on the dyno? Only the regular 99 specs.
As far as I'm aware these are PRIMARILY attributed to the Australian Marcus Reed. I've only ever seen him talk about them and it always comes off as some bespoke, ego inflating, snake oil sales pitch.
Regardless of what the guy trying to sell them (Marcus) says, they're going to be limited by their footprint and efficiency map. No idea about hard data or repeatable results from other people.
These are not the "Doctors" Bathurst twins lol..... These are sold by RX7.com and Banzai....
The 3KAI I have a set on my car and I am getting ready to push them a bit. Just suprised that no one really has any solid data on them.
These are not the "Doctors" Bathurst twins lol..... These are sold by RX7.com and Banzai....
The 3KAI I have a set on my car and I am getting ready to push them a bit. Just suprised that no one really has any solid data on them.
i never said they were but they are promoting a similar product with similar results with baseless facts and results that puts all the manufacturers to shame
i never said they were but they are promoting a similar product with similar results with baseless facts and results that puts all the manufacturers to shame
Please pass some of these baseless facts on so I can get some info. No one has said anything about these. They flow 12% better than 99 efini that's all I have ever heard. With 43.2mm vs 41.5 with more space in the housing from what I gather 12% is not too off the wall. Again these are not the 650ps or whatever the hell Bathurst Australian guy is talking about.
Yeah i dont think these are the ones Marcus promotes. You ll have to call Ari to confirm but im pretty sure these are the 99spec turbos. The 12% higher flow is in comparison to the 93-95 ones
Cool thanks for that. Yeah those are it. Even the Doctor is aggravating him to upgrade to the Bathurst lol.... I figure these have to be close to BNR... in some ways better maybe. Not sure. I wish there was a few out there with some dyno runs or actuall knowledge of what boost can be run. The shafts are 40% bigger than the norm I think.
These are NOT the Australian guy's modified turbos. I first heard about these five or six years ago. Bought them four years ago during my rebuild. These are true Hitachi factory turbos which are an upgrade developed by Hitachi engineers. Here are the facts as I know them.
-10-12% more air flow due to the larger intake turbine wheel 43.2 mm vs. 41.5 mm, exhaust wheel the same as all the other versions
-shaft is 40% thicker for less wobble and much greater longevity
-*most important*- seals are 360 degrees rather 270 degrees- makes a huge difference in longevity and oiling
-housings are redesigned with different shape but similar volume
-*second most important*- the wastegate is larger (forgot the exact size) which means less chance of overboost and better boost control
-actuator are better and upgraded to take higher boost but unfortunately same spring rate (I switched mine to custom Forge actuators with changeable springs)
-flow maps are improved
-these were developed to run up to 20 psi, which is unfortunately limited by the stock manifolds, but can run 16-18 for long periods and have again much greater longevity even at these higher boost levels
I found the wastegate measurements. The SP HT12-3KAI's wastegate is 27mm vs. the previous 25.5 mm. This doesn't seem like much of a difference but it is significance at high flow rates/pressure rates. I seem to remember that this can allow about a 20% more exhaust volume to be vented away from the exhaust manifold when it is fully open.
Mike
Lol at all you guys playing with factory size turbines and shitting on Marcus.
I have had several versions of his compressors and turbines in my hands, note I still have clapped out s8 factory turbos on mine but will be going single, if anything I might go a modest compound setup with a TVS900 blower and G42 and am in no way associated with his business, he just carries more FD spares than Mazda Australia so it's worth dropping past if you need something.
His turbines are massive compared to the factory ones, you need turbine housings and compressor housings opened up to run them, I have seen feedback from other builder/tuners, again not associated with his business who were very surprised at what they made. As you would expect. It's not bullshit or secret squirrel designs or anything else, just significantly larger turbine and compressor, not trying to breathe through used cigarette butt.
Anyone claiming the pissy Hitachi KAI (marcus did offer them as an intermediate step at one stage too) will go anywhere near his big ones is kidding themselves regardless of compressor dimensions of any mismatched hi-flow on offer, the factory turbines are a massive choke point (the biggest wastegate in the world won't fix EMP with factory turbines either as the factory turbines need a shitload of pressure tryingto work way past their best with mismatched compressors). You are probably talking ~40% more turbine area, possibly more on his.
Aaaaand even our mainline hub dynos with no tyre power dissipation read lower than your miniature pony figures.
Lol at all you guys playing with factory size turbines and shitting on Marcus.
I have had several versions of his compressors and turbines in my hands, note I still have clapped out s8 factory turbos on mine but will be going single, if anything I might go a modest compound setup with a TVS900 blower and G42 and am in no way associated with his business, he just carries more FD spares than Mazda Australia so it's worth dropping past if you need something.
His turbines are massive compared to the factory ones, you need turbine housings and compressor housings opened up to run them, I have seen feedback from other builder/tuners, again not associated with his business who were very surprised at what they made. As you would expect. It's not bullshit or secret squirrel designs or anything else, just significantly larger turbine and compressor, not trying to breathe through used cigarette butt.
Anyone claiming the pissy Hitachi KAI (marcus did offer them as an intermediate step at one stage too) will go anywhere near his big ones is kidding themselves regardless of compressor dimensions of any mismatched hi-flow on offer, the factory turbines are a massive choke point (the biggest wastegate in the world won't fix EMP with factory turbines either as the factory turbines need a shitload of pressure tryingto work way past their best with mismatched compressors). You are probably talking ~40% more turbine area, possibly more on his.
Aaaaand even our mainline hub dynos with no tyre power dissipation read lower than your miniature pony figures.
Well Slides that may be true, but he did an extremely **** poor job of describing them. I never saw any real data. No dyno, no 1/8, no quarter mile and just an extremely arrogant manner which sounded like a scam sales man to me..
Again. I just want to know what guys have done with the 3kai. The Doctor can keep his 650ps.
There are people running some serious endurance from what I gather with these so they may never come near "The Doctors" they still run better than the 92-95s.
BTW I haven't seen anyone compare any twins to his... because there is nothing to compare. I wish I could. He probably lost a sale with me just because I never saw any facts besides the compressor size, which not even sure if that's true since so much other crap was vomited everywhere.
I found the wastegate measurements. The SP HT12-3KAI's wastegate is 27mm vs. the previous 25.5 mm. This doesn't seem like much of a difference but it is significance at high flow rates/pressure rates. I seem to remember that this can allow about a 20% more exhaust volume to be vented away from the exhaust manifold when it is fully open.
Mike
Thanks Mike I know you found that info for me before and I never doubted it. I just wish someone had some tuning info on these.
I PMed DIYman25 who uses them for endurance and says they are doing great. He didn't share much more info. Maybe he will chime in at some point.
Slides I think the issue with the Dr's is they are thousands more with no data.
These "sp" are like 500-600 more.
No doubt if I was going to spend thousands I would go efr and get rid of the twins for a superior setup. For me these work out perfectly. How can they be beat for the $? I wanted as close to a stock setup with 120-150 more hp with some ounce of reliability. I still have some tweaking to do, but I believe I am there.
I would only consider them if I wanted to keep a car factory looking. Certainly for the money you could buy a big single, manifold, gate(s), dump and intake gear. There is two CHRAs and low volume machine work on compressor covers and turbine housings so I understand why they cost a fair whack.
Right when I say reliable..... I am driving down to the Speed way and now my primary isn't boosting over 8 which is probably off the spring lol....DAMNIT!!!!!!!
Still ran the speed way oval track and hung in with the big boys fairly well. High 13.8psi with the secondary, but still the primary only at 8.... It was fun for sure. Now the primary is making kind of a fluttering noise though
I have a set of Marcus Read's twin turbos. They're neither the efini SP's or Bathurst SP's. I bought them because they were the same price as new Efini turbos and BNR's were on backorder until December. They were 3500 AUD + 200 AUD shipping to California. They don't have any SP badging, but there is a "Hi Spool" badge with some other casting marks. I haven't been able to push them yet as I've been dealing with some other issues on the car. I do want to note while these were advertised as "new" turbos, there was cracking on the wastegate port. Unfortunately my dumbass did not take a picture of it before putting it on the car, but it was very similar to the photo below. Another thing I want to note was the difference in restrictor pills for the wastegate and turbo precontrol actuator. The wastegate precontrol had a less restrictive pill (lower boost problem?) and the turbo precontrol did not have a restrictor pill at all. I've yet to get these turbos running properly, but I'll make a post when I do.
The original very short run was made in 95 - most probably dead from race use in period....with some sent back to Japan allegedly, probably before 1999 was even on the calendar. The Doctor's ones are closest, with a copy recast compressor housing, the pic he shared elsewhere must be from around 10 years ago, labelling is a bit suss as it looks like the "standard" is actually not a 12 going by circlip retention
Guessing the OP has KAIs which have been available for nearly a decade - here at least. The GCG version was a rework, most recently with the new rotating assembly, matey Marcus looks like he's taken a similar path?
Seems the former friends both use stock bored out side feeds....less said!
I have a set of Marcus Read's twin turbos. They're neither the efini SP's or Bathurst SP's. I bought them because they were the same price as new Efini turbos and BNR's were on backorder until December. They were 3500 AUD + 200 AUD shipping to California. They don't have any SP badging, but there is a "Hi Spool" badge with some other casting marks. I haven't been able to push them yet as I've been dealing with some other issues on the car. I do want to note while these were advertised as "new" turbos, there was cracking on the wastegate port. Unfortunately my dumbass did not take a picture of it before putting it on the car, but it was very similar to the photo below. Another thing I want to note was the difference in restrictor pills for the wastegate and turbo precontrol actuator. The wastegate precontrol had a less restrictive pill (lower boost problem?) and the turbo precontrol did not have a restrictor pill at all. I've yet to get these turbos running properly, but I'll make a post when I do.
awesome. Thanks for stopping in. So they are not a magical Unicorn. They are actually out there running. That is good news. Please keep me/us posted on how they run when all is sorted out.
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Price actually isn't bad for what you paid imo. I recall them being Round 5k or so which was not worth it to me.
The original very short run was made in 95 - most probably dead from race use in period....with some sent back to Japan allegedly, probably before 1999 was even on the calendar. The Doctor's ones are closest, with a copy recast compressor housing, the pic he shared elsewhere must be from around 10 years ago, labelling is a bit suss as it looks like the "standard" is actually not a 12 going by circlip retention
Guessing the OP has KAIs which have been available for nearly a decade - here at least. The GCG version was a rework, most recently with the new rotating assembly, matey Marcus looks like he's taken a similar path?
Seems the former friends both use stock bored out side feeds....less said!
I apologize as I should have stated KAIs from the beginning. These have been out for over a decade for sure with no real data on them. No real data that I can find anyway. I know one guy using them for endurance. He is pushing close to what BNRs do with Hitachi reliability.... if that means anything really. The KAI are definitely not just 99s with a bigger wheel.
10-16-21, 06:58 PM
