What makes for a better Track/daily driver...
12-11-10, 09:07 PM
#1
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What makes for a better Track/daily driver...
LS1 Powered FD with 400+ Horse power and ft lbs of Torque or as Rotary powered with 400+ horse power?
I ask this because, im on a fence between going LS1 and keeping the rotary. I on one hand love the rotary, and I have had a blast with it in my car. And on the other hand I love my FD in general, not just the engine but the entire car.
I would love to be able to daily drive my FD during good weather and be able to take it out to the track on the weekends. What would I be sacrificing on both ends, I guess a list of pros and cons from someone who has had both would be the most benneficial.
On one hand im looking at about $12K to do the LS build which includes the engine/tranny/harness/ecu parts+labor , and about $8.5K to do the Rotary build (new motor, turbo, fuel kit, radiator, intercooler, odds and ends)
But back to the original question, Whats better for track use? I know the rotary weighs less than the LS1, but how much will the LS1 throw off the balance if any?
I ask this because, im on a fence between going LS1 and keeping the rotary. I on one hand love the rotary, and I have had a blast with it in my car. And on the other hand I love my FD in general, not just the engine but the entire car.
I would love to be able to daily drive my FD during good weather and be able to take it out to the track on the weekends. What would I be sacrificing on both ends, I guess a list of pros and cons from someone who has had both would be the most benneficial.
On one hand im looking at about $12K to do the LS build which includes the engine/tranny/harness/ecu parts+labor , and about $8.5K to do the Rotary build (new motor, turbo, fuel kit, radiator, intercooler, odds and ends)
But back to the original question, Whats better for track use? I know the rotary weighs less than the LS1, but how much will the LS1 throw off the balance if any?
12-11-10, 09:37 PM
#4
Weight difference is minimal between LS1 and the 13B fully dressed.
LS1 does NOT disrupt the 50/50 weight distribution.
I would do the LS1, according to your numbers, its only a couple grand more and its a more efficient, reliable setup.
Plus, you'll actually have torque.
LS1 does NOT disrupt the 50/50 weight distribution.
I would do the LS1, according to your numbers, its only a couple grand more and its a more efficient, reliable setup.
Plus, you'll actually have torque.
12-11-10, 09:39 PM
#5
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^ Thats exactly what I was thinking.... I honestly think the only two things I would miss about the Rotary are the amazing sounds of the engine, and getting to explain to retards what a rotary is. I had alot of fun doing that, what I didnt have fun doing was playing the guessing game on when the motor would pop. Not too bad tho, made it 93K miles on the original engine.
12-11-10, 10:29 PM
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a buddy locally has seen 30+ mpg on the highway and 22-24 in town on his ls1 swapped FD, there are pros and cons to both, I suggest you do some reading, figure out what they are, and decide for yourself which factors are more important to you. I suggest keeping the rotary, and investing that 3.5k that you're saving in something that you don't need, but would really like. Something like a nice set of wheels and tires and a good BBK, maybe some suspension work.
but that's just me. the nice thing with a single turbo, you can crank the boost up as long as you're tuned for it and go from that 400 that you putz around town with to whatever you make at higher boost.
but that's just me. the nice thing with a single turbo, you can crank the boost up as long as you're tuned for it and go from that 400 that you putz around town with to whatever you make at higher boost.
12-14-10, 09:39 PM
#12
RB motors (especially the RB26dett) are quirky.
2Jz's are tough, but being an inline 6, they sit pretty far forward & are have a cast iron block. If the idea of a 2j sounds interesting, then grab one out of an Aristo, not a supra (Vvti = more power, torque & milage) the casting of both the block & aluminum/ plastic components are waaaay better than that of the supra too.
The LS series engines are the best recco's I've seen in this thread so far. They are popular for many reasons (cheapish to purchase complete, easy to find parts are everywhere, easy to modify, they can take A LOT of abuse, then be cheaply rebuilt, the list goes on)
The only drawback of the LS swap, is that is the most common swap (if your concerned about originality of an engine swap) but most people who jump ***** deep into a unique engine swap soon wish they would have gone the common route (more info & support) so they could be enjoying their cars rather than wanting to throw a torque-wrench through the window.
Be warned: torque demands respect! (your car won't be tge same)
A nicely built 13bREW on twins can turn around & bite you (think about getting your hand bit)
Any of the engines listed above will deliver twice tge torque @ half the RPM's... (think getting bit in the face, by a large angry dog)
My advice it to do what ever will get you on the road & keep you there (enjoying your car)
2Jz's are tough, but being an inline 6, they sit pretty far forward & are have a cast iron block. If the idea of a 2j sounds interesting, then grab one out of an Aristo, not a supra (Vvti = more power, torque & milage) the casting of both the block & aluminum/ plastic components are waaaay better than that of the supra too.
The LS series engines are the best recco's I've seen in this thread so far. They are popular for many reasons (cheapish to purchase complete, easy to find parts are everywhere, easy to modify, they can take A LOT of abuse, then be cheaply rebuilt, the list goes on)
The only drawback of the LS swap, is that is the most common swap (if your concerned about originality of an engine swap) but most people who jump ***** deep into a unique engine swap soon wish they would have gone the common route (more info & support) so they could be enjoying their cars rather than wanting to throw a torque-wrench through the window.
Be warned: torque demands respect! (your car won't be tge same)
A nicely built 13bREW on twins can turn around & bite you (think about getting your hand bit)
Any of the engines listed above will deliver twice tge torque @ half the RPM's... (think getting bit in the face, by a large angry dog)
My advice it to do what ever will get you on the road & keep you there (enjoying your car)
12-14-10, 09:55 PM
#13
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For some of us it's just pure love and for others they try the rotary and realize they could of had a v8 
When you find the girl you want to marry you don't ask your buddy what he thinks you just know.
When you find the girl you want to marry you don't ask your buddy what he thinks you just know.
12-14-10, 10:05 PM
#14
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This is a question that doesn't have any meaningful answer. Either can be good at either or both, but the question usually means the poster wants to confirm a direction they are already heading. There are no objective metrics you could use to answer the question. So, just keep a rotary sports car a rotary sports car. Or, buy a used vette that already has the motor. Many of us here still think "rotary experimental 7" means the car should remain rotary powered. There is, of course a small, vocal group who have converted to V8's. They work well enough, and are fast enough, and handle well enough, but they are neither what they were intended to be, nor are they anything very interesting at least not to0 many of us.
Gordon
Gordon
If I go v8 I've often said I'd get a vette, viper or something born and bred for the v8. However I get people who toss the LS1 one in the FD and it's personal thing as I implied in the post above.
Just thinking about it is so disturbing to me at this time that I'd probaby toss my breakfast on the front seat if I went outside tomorrow morning and heard a big block when I turned the key.
12-14-10, 10:45 PM
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I don't think you need me or anyone else to tell you the advantages of the v8 from a practical stand point but there are MANY
Much more reliable for track use when fully sorted 1st of all because there's no turbo but also beause the LS is a very good enigne.
Much better gas mileage
Easier to make power
More torque/usable power which you can never have enough of on a road course
Less expensive to maintain
I can go on and on
From what I can tell the only advantage the rotary has is it's a less expensive engine.
PS I don't think you can build a reliable rotary or v8 for 12k that makes 400 rwhp especially for track use. Do it right the 1st time and if everything goes well you'll likely have 20 invested in either direction you go. Once you have them both sorted the LS will run twice as long but the rotary will cost half as much to replace
Much more reliable for track use when fully sorted 1st of all because there's no turbo but also beause the LS is a very good enigne.
Much better gas mileage
Easier to make power
More torque/usable power which you can never have enough of on a road course
Less expensive to maintain
I can go on and on
From what I can tell the only advantage the rotary has is it's a less expensive engine.
PS I don't think you can build a reliable rotary or v8 for 12k that makes 400 rwhp especially for track use. Do it right the 1st time and if everything goes well you'll likely have 20 invested in either direction you go. Once you have them both sorted the LS will run twice as long but the rotary will cost half as much to replace
12-14-10, 11:16 PM
#17
Depending on event rules/ regulations a motor swap throws you into open class or unlimited.
Find out what type of racing you want to do, look at the regulation and rules of what class you want to be grouped into, make a decision based on usability of your car as a complete.
Also, I've never seen thus brought up:
Crash safety of a swapped FD, wondering what happens if you hit a wall at moderate speeds... Does the engine try to come through the dash at you???
Just because an engine stopes right in with minimal modifications & offers near the same balance of the original example, doesn't mean it was designed to be that way.
Performance often overshadows safety when talking swaps.
Think of every aspect if automotive engineering before you contemplate a project like this. (you just might be building your coffin, a really shiny fast, awesome coffin)
Find out what type of racing you want to do, look at the regulation and rules of what class you want to be grouped into, make a decision based on usability of your car as a complete.
Also, I've never seen thus brought up:
Crash safety of a swapped FD, wondering what happens if you hit a wall at moderate speeds... Does the engine try to come through the dash at you???
Just because an engine stopes right in with minimal modifications & offers near the same balance of the original example, doesn't mean it was designed to be that way.
Performance often overshadows safety when talking swaps.
Think of every aspect if automotive engineering before you contemplate a project like this. (you just might be building your coffin, a really shiny fast, awesome coffin)
12-15-10, 03:53 PM
#18
People think the LS swap is the savior to FD's because the swap is easy to do.
V8's are everywhere. Why do people swear by this engine for the FD is beyond me.
If i wanted a v8, id get a vette like fritz said. Of course i wouldnt mind BUYING an LS swapped FD already but i probably wouldnt ever go through the hassle of converting my own FD into v8. I rather have both.
If i ever decided to change out the rotary, i would go 2JZ. Now THAT is unique. A v8? Yes torque out the ***, easy to work on, parts and mods are easy to do and make power but again, just another run of the mill v8. And IMHO, a boosted inline 6 sounds 83478374834783x better than any v8.
I really laugh at people who do the v8 swap, spend 20k on the swap alone, then sell the car for like 25k lol
Its like why did you do the swap for? I think there are equal amount of FD's for sale, both rotary and v8.
12-15-10, 06:22 PM
#19
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I appreciate all the inputs from everyone here. Seems to me that the only legit reason most people have for defending the rotary is for the uniqueness and not wanting to be just another V8. I can appreciate that, and I understand 100%. I have however made up my mind to do the LS swap, for a few reasons.
Good power: yes its easily obtainable on the 13B I know this, but its easier and more reliable with a LSX. I have to be honest, Im terrified of doing a awesome build and then something small going wrong and detonating the engine and having to start over. I know its not that common, but I refuse to be one of the people that goes through 4 engines in a 10 year period. Not saying those people dont know what they are doing, just that I cant afford to replace a engine often or willing to go through the heart break so often. When I get my car back on the road I want it to stay there.
Maintenance- is it that much easier? No, but I wouldnt be afraid to go over a couple thousand miles with the LSX without changing the oil.
Torque- Its awesome and alot more usable power with the LSX.
My downsides- I will miss the uniqueness of the Rotary, the mystique that it has and one day if im fortunate enough ill buy another FD with a well built Rotary. I would love to have both.
Sound- I love the sound of the rotary engine, its simply music to my ears. Especially through my n1 dual exhaust. I know most people hate it but I love it.
I also love explaining to people that the car doesnt have a piston engine, and what a rotary is. Amazing how many people have no clue about it.
One of these days I will have another Rotary, although it may be in a FC and NA. For some reason I love the NA FC's.
Good power: yes its easily obtainable on the 13B I know this, but its easier and more reliable with a LSX. I have to be honest, Im terrified of doing a awesome build and then something small going wrong and detonating the engine and having to start over. I know its not that common, but I refuse to be one of the people that goes through 4 engines in a 10 year period. Not saying those people dont know what they are doing, just that I cant afford to replace a engine often or willing to go through the heart break so often. When I get my car back on the road I want it to stay there.
Maintenance- is it that much easier? No, but I wouldnt be afraid to go over a couple thousand miles with the LSX without changing the oil.
Torque- Its awesome and alot more usable power with the LSX.
My downsides- I will miss the uniqueness of the Rotary, the mystique that it has and one day if im fortunate enough ill buy another FD with a well built Rotary. I would love to have both.
Sound- I love the sound of the rotary engine, its simply music to my ears. Especially through my n1 dual exhaust. I know most people hate it but I love it.
I also love explaining to people that the car doesnt have a piston engine, and what a rotary is. Amazing how many people have no clue about it.
One of these days I will have another Rotary, although it may be in a FC and NA. For some reason I love the NA FC's.
12-15-10, 08:31 PM
#21
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Weight difference is minimal between LS1 and the 13B fully dressed.
LS1 does NOT disrupt the 50/50 weight distribution.
I would do the LS1, according to your numbers, its only a couple grand more and its a more efficient, reliable setup.
Plus, you'll actually have torque.
LS1 does NOT disrupt the 50/50 weight distribution.
I would do the LS1, according to your numbers, its only a couple grand more and its a more efficient, reliable setup.
Plus, you'll actually have torque.
12-15-10, 11:18 PM
#23
Knowledge is power! I've come to realize that most that do the swap mainly do so because they are more familiar with that engine. Me if something ever happened to the engine in my 2000 M5, I can easily see myself installing a 4 rotor. With me doing all the work, hell it would actually be cheaper because everything "Dinan" is so damn expensive. I don't think the Bimmer guys would like that too much but I could give a f*ck. LOL!
12-16-10, 04:00 PM
#24
Knowledge is power! I've come to realize that most that do the swap mainly do so because they are more familiar with that engine. Me if something ever happened to the engine in my 2000 M5, I can easily see myself installing a 4 rotor. With me doing all the work, hell it would actually be cheaper because everything "Dinan" is so damn expensive. I don't think the Bimmer guys would like that too much but I could give a f*ck. LOL!
While the rotary engine has less moving parts, the engine as a whole with all its supporting necessities can be a nightmare to deal with.
I mean if the car bucks, really think about how many things that could be wrong with the car lol. Thats why i think people jump on the LS wagon. Its an easy swap to do and they get to enjoy the car more freely and more often. If 20B was as cheap and easy to swap, people would do that instead. People just want that reliable freedom, regardless of the engine. The LS just happened to be the answer to that problem.
People do the swap, IMHO, as a way out, as a way to enjoy the car while not really worrying about rotary and/or rotary related problems.
