what engine oil is everybody running?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 886
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, Texas
I though rotary engine doesn't like synthetic.
For my 94 it received regular oil since new...change every 2k.
IMO, using syn in any vehicle is not necessary. If regular oil are changed at every 2k miles they are as good as using syn.
For my 94 it received regular oil since new...change every 2k.
IMO, using syn in any vehicle is not necessary. If regular oil are changed at every 2k miles they are as good as using syn.
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Mobil 1, 10-30........I could agree with statement that regular oil is fine as long as you change it regularly, but in a rotary you get more oil contamination, and the heat from the turbo’s helps break down the oil. Synthetic holds up better to contamination (oil doesn’t break down as fast) and the high temps our rotary’s produce synthetic does a billion times better. (not trying to start a synthetic debate)Just think of the Mobil 1 commercial where they heat oil on the stove top. If I remember right it was a temp test @ 450 deg and the synthetic was only Carmel colored when the Dyno juice was tar. There was some long website about the chemical make up of oil and how it reacted in different conditions, had a good deal of data on why synthetic performs better. But there are also many top drag racers that use regular dyno juice (change it after each run sometimes) and are world champions
Ive De-railed from my original post
I change my oil ever 1k, or for each trip to the track which ever happens first, Which is a bit crazy but its all about how hard you consistently drive. Just like in the owners manuals it says depending on driving conditions you may need to change more often. I run mine Hard (22psi every chance I get) so the cost for the multiple changes is cheap insurance
Ive De-railed from my original post
I change my oil ever 1k, or for each trip to the track which ever happens first, Which is a bit crazy but its all about how hard you consistently drive. Just like in the owners manuals it says depending on driving conditions you may need to change more often. I run mine Hard (22psi every chance I get) so the cost for the multiple changes is cheap insurance
Last edited by Bacon; Oct 14, 2005 at 10:29 AM.
Originally Posted by tphan
I though rotary engine doesn't like synthetic.
Originally Posted by tphan
IMO, using syn in any vehicle is not necessary. If regular oil are changed at every 2k miles they are as good as using syn.
Originally Posted by tphan
I though rotary engine doesn't like synthetic.
"The Mazda factory does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in their rotary engines - specifically addressing this issue in the Owner's Manual.
In 1979, Racing Beat began testing synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, the best synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300 F) and extreme cold (below 32 F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250 F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Souther California, we have difficulty seeing the low-temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature in all three locations dropped 5 to 10 F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduced wear. We also found benefits in street use. On two occassions, cars with "scratchy" transmissions synchronizers were completely cured by a change to synthetic gear lube. After many years of experience with these products we have observed only one problem: because of the reduced friction, the time necessary to break in an engine, transmission, or limted slip differential (standard differentials are no problem) is excessively long, so we recommend using mineral oil in all three for a time to ensure rapid break in."
In 1979, Racing Beat began testing synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, the best synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300 F) and extreme cold (below 32 F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250 F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Souther California, we have difficulty seeing the low-temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature in all three locations dropped 5 to 10 F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduced wear. We also found benefits in street use. On two occassions, cars with "scratchy" transmissions synchronizers were completely cured by a change to synthetic gear lube. After many years of experience with these products we have observed only one problem: because of the reduced friction, the time necessary to break in an engine, transmission, or limted slip differential (standard differentials are no problem) is excessively long, so we recommend using mineral oil in all three for a time to ensure rapid break in."
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 918
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta
I run valvoline 20w-50, change it every few months (since that's typically like 1k miles maybe).
And now to quote an article I found on the 8 forum that I'm sure will get me into a lot of trouble here, but I'm just passing along the information:
Ok here's the official scoop on the oil issue. As I said earlier, I asked the highest people on the planet when it comes to rotaries. First I'll start with Rick Engman's position as he built all of the engine's for Downing. I looked at Rick and just quite simply said, "synthetic oils". His response was, "I wouldn't use anything but synthetic oil in a rotary". Thankyou Mr. Engman! All of Downing's race cars use Valvoline synthetic. He said it doesn't matter if it is a race engine or not. I also told Mr. Engman that many people say you only use synthetics in a rotary because it gets rebult all the time and that it doesn't matter what happens to these engines. I can't post what his opinion are of these people! He did say their engines get 100 RACE hours of use between rebuilds. The Courage is using experimental engine parts that were last used in the 80's and 90's! They care more about the longevity of the engine on a race car than a street car so some people's logic is VERY flawwed.
Now onto Mazda's position on synthetics since I know that the opinion of the smartest rotary person in the U.S. isn't good enough for some people. As I stated earlier, I asked the head of rotary engine development for the past 30 years at Mazda. He designed and built the 787B engine too. In very broken english he told me that not all synthetics are created equal. some are better than others when it comes to mixing with fuel in the oil metering system. The oil metering system is the key. It is NOT with swelling seals. He said that because some oils work very well and others not as well, it is far easier to just officially say not to use them than to say which ones to use and not to. This has actually been speculated for a long time and now we know it's true. I asked which synthetic oils he does not like. the answer is very surprising. The worst synthetic oil for the rotary according to the smartest rotary engine person in the world is Mobil 1. At least Valvoline and Royal Purple are fine. Didn't get any others listed. Rick Engman did say that decades ago there was an issue with some swelling of seals with old synthetic formulations but these have long since been resolved.
Here's the link if you feel like flaming away at them, I'm just the messenger.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...6&postcount=16
And now to quote an article I found on the 8 forum that I'm sure will get me into a lot of trouble here, but I'm just passing along the information:
Ok here's the official scoop on the oil issue. As I said earlier, I asked the highest people on the planet when it comes to rotaries. First I'll start with Rick Engman's position as he built all of the engine's for Downing. I looked at Rick and just quite simply said, "synthetic oils". His response was, "I wouldn't use anything but synthetic oil in a rotary". Thankyou Mr. Engman! All of Downing's race cars use Valvoline synthetic. He said it doesn't matter if it is a race engine or not. I also told Mr. Engman that many people say you only use synthetics in a rotary because it gets rebult all the time and that it doesn't matter what happens to these engines. I can't post what his opinion are of these people! He did say their engines get 100 RACE hours of use between rebuilds. The Courage is using experimental engine parts that were last used in the 80's and 90's! They care more about the longevity of the engine on a race car than a street car so some people's logic is VERY flawwed.
Now onto Mazda's position on synthetics since I know that the opinion of the smartest rotary person in the U.S. isn't good enough for some people. As I stated earlier, I asked the head of rotary engine development for the past 30 years at Mazda. He designed and built the 787B engine too. In very broken english he told me that not all synthetics are created equal. some are better than others when it comes to mixing with fuel in the oil metering system. The oil metering system is the key. It is NOT with swelling seals. He said that because some oils work very well and others not as well, it is far easier to just officially say not to use them than to say which ones to use and not to. This has actually been speculated for a long time and now we know it's true. I asked which synthetic oils he does not like. the answer is very surprising. The worst synthetic oil for the rotary according to the smartest rotary engine person in the world is Mobil 1. At least Valvoline and Royal Purple are fine. Didn't get any others listed. Rick Engman did say that decades ago there was an issue with some swelling of seals with old synthetic formulations but these have long since been resolved.
Here's the link if you feel like flaming away at them, I'm just the messenger.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...6&postcount=16
Last edited by cletus; Oct 14, 2005 at 12:55 PM.
Originally Posted by cletus
I The worst synthetic oil for the rotary according to the smartest rotary engine person in the world is Mobil 1.
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 195
Likes: 13
From: Seattle
Originally Posted by cletus
...And now to quote an article I found on the 8 forum that I'm sure will get me into a lot of trouble here, but I'm just passing along the information...I asked which synthetic oils he does not like. the answer is very surprising. The worst synthetic oil for the rotary according to the smartest rotary engine person in the world is Mobil 1.
Here's the link if you feel like flaming away at them, I'm just the messenger.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...6&postcount=16
Here's the link if you feel like flaming away at them, I'm just the messenger.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...6&postcount=16
Edgardo
