matty

fd def wins!

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

What's the difference between "development" and "mods"? Nothing. By "modding" my FD, I've just done the 10 years and few thousand dollars of "development" to my car as Porsche did to theirs since '93.

You're positioning "mods" to an RX7 as though they make it a more extreme and therefore less comparable vehicle to a 996, and in most cases that really isn't so. The "upgrade" brakes on my car are essentially similar to Porsches stock brakes. They could go bigger, but so could I. My "upgrade" Koni/GC suspension is probably cheaper/lower tech than what comes on a 996 stock. They could put on $5k Penskes, but so could I. The 996TT rear tire is a 285/30/18. Mine too... and I'll corner with a 911TT... even mildly modded... with my setup.

I've added a better intercooler and less restrictive intake and exhaust and turned up the boost to make more power... what do you think Porsche did to the 911TT since '93 to make more power? Same thing.

Essentially all I've done in "modding" my car (in most cases) is modernize it to the level that is standard fare for OEM sportscars.

kurrupt999

My guess is that it will be a very close race. Reason being is that i actually raced a stock 996turbo when i had intakes, down, midpipe pfc running 12lbs on seq. and it pulled on me pretty damn hard. he probably beat me by 3-4 cars in 2 gears. And i actually got to drive it a couple times and GOD DAMN that thing pulls so hard from like 2500 to redline. That car is insane.

dblboinger

iTrader: (3)

Dump what he paid for a 996 into an FD...then match them up.

ENZO182007

^^
then wish for the warranty , the all weather awd and that cool porsche crest Key chain.

KX500FD

"trophies"...it's a template avatar

HedgeHog

Welp, I guess the only way to find out is have some impartial driver do laps in both variants. Alas, that may be difficult to pursue. Wonder what Damian and Fritz have vids of them running down or running w/ a hard-driven 996TT? That might be tell-tale...although I hardly consider Damian's FD the "typical mod".

axr6

With those power and weigth numbers the FD should win easily onrolling acceleration and even more easily on a road course.

Let's see: FD's Power to Weight ratio = 7.71 HP per lbs weight. 966 = 8.57 (assuming 420 whp).

When it gets to a road course a car that weights 900 lbs more than the other and have a worse Power to Weigth ratio should have no chance at all. 900 lbs is the equal of stuffing 5 large extra people in a car and trying to corner, brake, accelerate against an other car with far less weight. Just not going to happen.

As to the 966's suspension being superior to the FDs, that is a stretch of imagination as well. I raced an FD for years and with my self tuned suspension my car was about the fastest car on the track, eating all of the 911 variants for snack. So, if your FD is not handling well that is because someone messed up the suspenstion on it.

On the other hand, you can not find a more "evil" handling trait than the rear-engine placement of the 911 variants. Sure, if you thrown enough money at it, you can make it handle OK but, still a large disadvantage. Like well known Porsche racer, Bob Akin said one day regarding the racing of 911 variants:

"You can not make a recehorse out of a pig but, you can make an awful fast pig".

The same way that I won a seasonal championship in autocross in an '83 Mustang, against Porshes, Corvettes and other high performance cars, despite the assumption that a "front heavy Mustang could not possibly made to handle well". Nonsense!!!

In this example a well suspended FD should clean house over that particular 966, much more so on a road course.

Albert

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I know Fritz has video, and I've been riding along with him when he's run with GT3 Cup cars and Ferrari Challence cars in Brad Barber's old Killer Bee.

With a good driver, the Cup cars are faster, but that's a pure factory-built turn-key racecar. Brad's KB was probably one of the most comprehensively prepared, cost-not-much-of-an-object FD track cars ever, and the sum total of everything done to it was chump-change bargain basement compared to the level of prep on a Cup car. Heck, it's chump change to half of the regular guys that show up at Porsche club events. Even Pettit's SpeedGT car was a relatively low-buck effort.

In terms of comparison to STREET or regular Joe modded street 996 varients, I believe the FD has every bit of the speed potential. There's nothing deficient about this platform, and that opinion comes from my "real world experience" with running around tracks with them.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Hedge,

You'll never convince the diehards out there that there are better automotive platforms. I've given up on it. Just do like everyone else when you are on the forum "The 7 can't lose" and then move on.

HedgeHog

Thanks Mahj.....why do I get into "discussions" like these??? Like talking to a 6-yr old....AM NOT, ARE TOO, AM NOT, ARE TOO...


Ptrhan, I would still love to see a fully driven FD against someone similarly skilled in a 996TT to compare. I'd done track finally in my "modded" FD and I can get a feel of what it can do compare to these cars. But I daresay that my "modded" version is atypical of what most have.

...K...deep breath...moving. Happy Lapping...7 Can't Lose.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Hey Hedge

From your experience, where do you think the FD is currently lacking? And what do you see as essential to be modified?

Off the bat, you can upgrade all 4 corner brakes, and modify the rears to work w/ the handbrake. It's expensive, but it can be done.

Serious supensions (such as the track tested settings offered by several JDM tuners) are very high good IMO.

Also, I can't even begin to mention what a completely new suspension does to the car. I'm talking about all the linkages (yes that's expensive) and aaallll the bushings. Everything feels amazingly tight.

~Ramy

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

^^^^^
I'm not a 6-year old, i'm someone who's done more than a couple track events with plenty of high-end modern cars available to compare, and I can tell you, there's nothing magically better about most of them.

I'll accept that the RX7 is no longer a competitive platform when I'm given a clear sense that it isn't, but I run around track all of the time w/ 996TT's, so unless everyone who owns them and drives in advanced/instructor groups is a total lame-o, they're not a quantum leap from where I am, and I'm not an F1 driver or anything. The cars that honestly may be better? C6 Z06's (though I've lapped quicker than both i've seen so far), Modded E46 M3's are tough. Tougher than you'd think. 997 GT3's will be tough, because the 996 GT3 was tough... tougher than the Turbo. If somebody stuffed some horsepower in an Elise, it'd be tough.

I'm just speaking from experience... not from observation that 10 years, $100,000, or a Porsche crest automatically make it better...

KX500FD

what kills an FD on the roadcourse is lack of torque

a well sorted 3 rotor vs. a 996 would be a very interesting match-up....sure would be fun to humble the rich ******

dblboinger

iTrader: (3)

Think I'll keep the $40k difference and maybe take a thrashin'...and if I were concerned about a warranty I wouldn't have bought an FD.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

^My thoughts exactly. Both are nice cars, but most of us are here because the FD is good performance for the money. Apples and Oranges anyone?

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Wow, insecurity meter is pegging on your post. I can't afford a 996 TT either, but it doesn't automatically make the owners "******". One of the nicest guys I've met was an older Doctor in a GT3. Until he was standing by his car, you would've though he drove an old pickup.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

You know, until the 996, the 911 varients had been essentially the same car since they came out in 1968... essentially a VW bug evolution.

I've ridden in my friends highly-modded '93 911TT, and it looked, smelled, and felt like my old 70's VW only with more power and leather seats. Hardly as refined or "developed" as my RX7 of the same vintage. Even some of the interior pieces like the guages and window cranks and such looked like exacly the same VW/AUDI/PORSCHE parts bin stuff.... yet nobody ran around in 1993 talking about how it was "uncomparable" to "modern" machines, probably because it said "porsche" on it and was $100,000. That Chassis was viable and world class for three decades, with "development", so there's no reason why the FD, which was ahead of it's time in 93, shouldn't still be viable today....

KX500FD

most people who need to flaunt their wealth are ******...and it is good to see them humbled

that has nothing to do with "insecurity" and everything to do with a love for justice...in the end, all the arrogant are brought low

paul_3rdgen

iTrader: (6)

Alot of debate about which car is better, I think if we could all afford to own a porsche we would keep our 7's and have a porshe too! Which one is better? I think it all depends on what mods the cars have. Here are a few vids of am LSX Rx-7 having some fun with some Porsches.
http://www.youtube.com/v/NmJT6mfTBhU

http://www.youtube.com/v/qo0f4bn6cYc

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I know someone who would seriously disagree w/ you guys who think the Porsche is superior. He had an FD back in the day. Then about a year and a half ago, he sold his 2004 Porsche 911 GT3 (as well as his SL55 AMG), and went back to FDs again https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=474089.

On that note, however, when I read about Porsche's *incredibly* advanced handling management systems, and their wind tunnel tested aerodynamics achievements, I honestly have no choice but to believe that the Porsche is simply a more advanced machine. Having said that, however, that doesn't mean that the 7 can't keep up w/ or even outperform the Porsche, provided w/ the correct mods. Technology can only take you so far, and the 7 is an incredible platform to start from IMO.

~Ramy

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

We're way off-topic, but owning an expensive car isn't automatically "flaunting wealth". And you have no idea how rediculous your "love of justice" lecture is, both in content and who you directed it to. Besides, it sounds like a line from a superhero cartoon that my son used to watch before he grew up.
And your insecurity skirt showing....again.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Buying a newer Porsche means that you can probably afford to have a nice car. Does that make you a ***** or arrogant. Hardly.

Your statement tells me that you are jealous, ignorant and prejudiced. Grow up!

KMAR

Most people who see our cars may think we are rich ******, when I drive back and forth to work I get more people who ride my *** just to **** me off cause I have a nice car. I know this because when I drive my girlfriends car no one rides my ***. I don't think a person who has an expensive car is stuck up or a snob, I just think the money could have been better spent on an FD, then take the rest and modify it and the remainder of that to buy beer. I don't know anything about the Porsche and nor do I care, I have an FD cause I wanted one just like the 'snobs' want their Porsche's. But, to tell you the truth, I am interested now to see who comes out on top. Oh, one more thing, in order for our cars to compete, they become very uncomfortable. I have a friend with an M3 and its very comfortable and its fast.

matty

so if someone wants or owns a porsche (or anything highend for that matter) they are a prik? i am failing to see your logic.