FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Obviously, I'm not claiming to be Mr. Hi-Performance Driver, but I've driven stick for well over 2 years on a daily basis, on a variety of cars (FD, FB, Honda Accord, Hondai, etc). So I've had my fair share of experience w/ stick, and I'm pretty good at it too. I can downshift and rev match very quickly and effortlessly, I can start from a stop easily (obviously), etc. So as far as IM concerened, I don't think it's simply that I don't know how to drive stick, cuz I do.

BUT...for some reason, I'm struggling w/ my FD. Something's not right...and I'm not sure if it's just me, or the car, or both.

The clutch I currently have on the FD is this one: http://www.rx7trix.com/store/custome...cat=133&page=2
To my understanding, that clutch is a very good one, HD, and should last quite a while. Also, it's supposed to support much more power than I have (I prob have 350hp @ the flywheel). But here I am, only about a year later, and this clutch is going out on me VERY soon. Over the past month or so, the clutch has been engaging higher, and the pedal effort has been getting easier. Right now, it's engaging considerably higher than it used to, and the pedal effort is much lighter. I feel like it's gonna give at any moment. And starting from a stop is a bit difficult (I dunno if I'd say it's definitely slipping, but if it's not, it's about to start).

Here are somethings I thought might be of concern (like I said, I'm just trying ot find out what I'm doing wrong, if it IS me...so I won't keep doing it)

- Coming off the line, it's a bit harder than normal cuz I have a PFS lightened flywheel. So I usually tap the gas for a sec before I engage the clutch (ie overrev) then engage, just to help out, since w/ the lightened flywheel, the revs seem to drop much faster...(they also climb much faster when I get on it, but that's irrelevant at this point)

- Speaking of which, I overrev considerably when on hills, because w/ the lightened flywheel, it's freakin IMPOSSIBLE to get going w/o riding the hell outta the clutch or bogging like crazy on a big hill, and there seem to be quite a few in my area

- Entering and exiting my garage is tricky, since there's not a lot of room to manuever. So what I do is engage the clutch (no gas), but I don't let off the clutch entirely, cuz then the car will move much faster than I want it to. So basically, the clutch is partially engaged (again, w/ no gas being given), as I ease the car in or out of the garage. Then when I'm good to go, I press the clutch down all the way, and re-engage w/ gas. I'm not sure if this is bad or not, something tells me it is, but I've never been told as such.

- This is a problem I've had for a while...whenever I'm shifting, ESPECIALLY from 1st to 2nd, when I'm letting off the clutch, the car jerks for a sec. I found that this does not happen as long as you shift above 5K rpm, but a lot of times I'm not at the luxury to do that (exhaust gets too loud, too many cops, sounds like I'm racing, yada yada yada). So I can't let go of the clutch completely. I basically let off the clutch almost all the way, as I deliver some gas, yet hold on to the clutch just a tiny bit right before it's completely engaged. So it's like I let off the clutch fast, but not completely, then slow off the end of the engagement point. That seems to help engage it smoothly at lower rpms, and the rpms don't jump, so it's not riding the clutch per say. But again, I dunno if this was bad or not. (Coincidentally, once the clutch started to get soft about a month ago, this shifting issue from 1st to 2nd went away...and I could easily just let off the clutch normally in one motion, and give it gas. No jerking, nothing.

- Sometimes in traffic, since 1st gear is so notchy, I'll shift real quick into 2nd, and just leave it in 2nd (w/ no gas)...and it'll go VERY VERY slowly in 2nd w/o bogging or stalling...until it's practically about to stop. So my point is here, I'm really in 2nd at a very low speed, which I think I should be in first...but 2nd is just smoother. I dunno if that's bad or not, considering it doesn't bog or stall.

- The clutch has about 10 launches on it, that's all. Crucial launches, but only about 10.

That's pretty much all I can think of at the moment. I dunno what the deal is, so I'm writing this in sincere hopes of figuiring out if I'm doing something wrong to cut down on the life of the clutch so badly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
~Ramy

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Hey Ramy,

very odd. The HD-00 is a stock disc with a strengthened pressure plate. I had mine in (with a 9.5# flywheel) for over 50,000 miles, to include about 5 road race days and about 120 passes down the drag strip. It held up fine, even with my old stage 3s making ~400 rwhp at 17 psi! In the course of that 50k miles I pulled my motor *ahem* a few times, and the clutch and flywheel always looked pretty damn good. I switched a sprung 6 puck in anticipation of the higher hp/torque of these new turbos.

My old stock clutch behaved like you are describing--it kept engaging higher and higher, until I was sitting so far back I could barely reach the steering wheel.

Who installed the clutch and flywheel? Have you ever bled the line? Have you noticed the fluid in yourr master cylinder going down?

su_maverick

are you sure it is your clutch that is on its way out? I have had one go on me in the 3000 and on hills you will notice the clutch slip and you will start revving and not going anywhere. On the other hand, I also had the slave cylinder (sp?) go on me at a later time. The symptoms of that was a higher 'sweet spot', less pressure on the clutch, and jerking. If you have any time this week we can meet up and I will ride with you and might be able to help out.

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

did you break in the clutch properly?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Rich,

Yea I thought it was weird too. I remember Ryan (Rikki hehe) told me that clutch would prob. outlast my engine haha. So obviously, I'm pretty surprised.

Yes, my clutch has taken a beating, but I KNOW I haven't beat it anywhere NEARLY as bad to make it fail this quickly. I hardly EVER launch off the line, so other than the occassional missed 3rd (which for some reason makes an incredible burning clutch smell when I hit 5th instead) or the occassional bad start on a hill or somethin, I really haven't done anything too harsh to the clutch.

In regard to install of the clutch, it's given me trouble for a while. When I first blew the stock clutch the car came w/ (it had 70K miles on it) about 2 years ago (I blew it racing a 911 turbo at that LOL) it was when I had first gotten my car, and I didn't know any better, so I took it to the Mazda stealership. They replaced the slave cylinder (or so they said, cuz PFS later said it def wasn't changed), and THEN told me it was the clutch. So after $400, they wanted another grand. I gave them the finger, and went to a local mechanic I knew to change the clutch for me (I still didn't know any better, and I was in a desperate situation to save a couple of bucks). He put on some wimpy *** clutch (which I still have in case of an emergency) and somehow forgot a throwout bearing inside (I swear...I kid you not). From time to time, I would hear it rattling inside (didn't know what it was at the time), and eventually, the clutch would get stuck on the floor more and more, and I couldn't pull it out of gear, so I'd have to let out the clutch, stalling the car, and start over. So at that point, I had Ryan help me replace the clutch. Turned out the leftover throwout bearing got wedged under the clutch fork, and broke it (the fork! lol). We changed the clutch plate, the throwout bearing in it was fine, threw out the old and now bent throwout bearing that was stuck under the clutch fork lol, got a new clutch fork, put everything back, and were good to go. Didn't replace any of the bearings or seals at the time (didn't know better at the time either. Again, this was all within the first 3 months I had the car).

After a couple of months (I'd say about exactly a year ago) I would get this HORRIBLE bogging in 1st, and eventually, w/ the car in gear, the car wouldn't move. I thought I had blown the clutch, so I took it to PFS. They looked at the clutch, and said it was fine, it had a lot of surface to it. They found the pilot bearing was bad, replaced it, and some seals, etc (I have the ticket w/ the details, but that's all I remember at the moment). While they were doing that, I had them throw on the flywheel, since the clutch was out anyways. Also had my 5th gear synchro replaced, since the tranny was out, and fixed some sensors that were on their way out (since they're on the tranny case). Everything's been fine ever since, although initially the clutch was engaging too low, then later it just automatically was fine, and now the current symptoms. That's the whole story from start to finish. Whew lol.

The line should have been bled when they changed the clutch, and no I haven't checked the brake fluid. I'll make sure to keep my eye on it. I hope it's that simple of an issue.

Neal, as I stated above, the slave cylinder SHOULD have been changed by Mazda. Prob is, if it's bad, it's out of warranty I think, cuz it's been a bit over a year. I def. have a higher sweet spot and less pedal pressure. I dunno if this week will work out, but if you're game say, Tuesday, that would be fine, cuz I have an exam Tuesday morning, so the rest of this week is shot.

Thanks
~Ramy

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Huh?? Never heard of that...plz elaborate??

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Kinda like breaking in a motor. Lower RPMs, lower load for 'x' amount of miles. Way back when Dave@kdr installed my ACT HD-00 clutch and lwfw, he indicated that a breakin wasn't really necessary, just no launches for awhile. I doubt that an improper break-in is your problem. I didn't break in mine at all.

Rich

MAVrick

take it into the shop and get it adjusted. If it's engaging late and the pedal is soft, you need to get it adjusted

su_maverick

I am free whenever...just shoot me a pm when you are up for it.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

You think it's just a matter of getting adjusted??

Also, did no one pick up on anything wrong that I was doing? (whether or not it could cause this problem).

Neal, I'll hit you up. Who knows...if adjusting is the key, I just might hit up Performance Buyer's Club, now that PFS is gone...

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Bump...

Any more ideas while we're at it?

Also...any critiques of my driving habits? Anyone pick up any "no-no's" ??

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

see if you could get it adjusted to bite earlier..

su_maverick

it doesnt sound like you are doing anything too horrible. We can add that to the list if you still want me to check out the car.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Mavrick said the same thing... I'm assuming it's the pedal that needs adjusting? And what would cause it to progressively loosen up like that?

cabaynes

iTrader: (4)

I got one for you ol' buddy... how about you stop trying to pass semi-trucks in the grass on the freeway

just kiddin Ramy. like someone mentioned before, the first thing that i thought of was the slave. you might want to get that checked out as well... oh and i absolutely died laughing when i read:



see ya man, Charlie

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Truthfully, it sounds like a problem with the clutch itself. Unfortunately, the only way to really know is to drop the tranny.

I don't think the clutch pedal needs to be adjusted or it's a problem with the hydraulics. Hydraulic problems show up as a very LOW engagement point for the clutch, and sometimes the clutch won't disengage, resulting in grinding gears when shifting or not being able to get into gear at all.

My guess is someone previously working on the car when you had the bad stock clutch adjusted the clutch pedal with a lot of preload on the clutch to get some more life out of that clutch. When you had the new clutch installed, the clutch pedal was set to always "push" on the clutch just a little bit - like riding the clutch. This will wear out a clutch disc VERY quickly, since it never has full pressure and will slip a little, even while driving.

Anyhow, that's my guess with the symptoms you describe.

Dale

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I'm not arguing because I can't recall for sure, but when I was bleeding the air out of my slave line a while back, I'm thinking it engaged higher until the air was purged. Again, I can't remember for certain.
And if it was pre-loaded, wouldn't he be likely to smell something going wrong, especially when the clutch was still pretty new?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Charlie, that was HILARIOUS hehe

Dale, when I was reading what you wrote...I remembered something. WHen I was at PFS, and they were changing the pilot bearing, they told me something along the lines of the clutch was too strong/heavy for the car, and that's why the bearing had gone bad?? I can't remember exactly...it was a year ago...but I remember I was shocked cuz I thought these clutches were tried and tested...

I REALLY do not want to drop the tranny. A shop would be too much $$ for me at this point, and while it would only take someone w/ lots of experience on their hands 3 hours total (that's how fast Ryan did it, in and out), I don't think I know anyone locally who has a lift and could help me out...

I think i'll have the pedal and slave checked out for starters, and hope the problem lies there...

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Dude, if I were in Fairfax I'd try and help you drop it. I need to drop my tranny for a few things and have been putting it off.

Regarding the jerkiness - sometimes clutches grab more than others. The best solution is 1) rev matching as best as you can (common knowledge)
2) make sure when you let out the clutch you're always lifting the clutch pedal in a continuous motion. And putting down throttle in a continuous motion. Don't try to 'hold' at the friction point or anything like that. Slow down the motion when you need to slip it more (like uphills) but don't ever let your foot stop still. Your shifts will get smoother if you trust in the clutch to do its job instead of trying to overcontrol it.

This was something I was never taught, but when I finally picked it up I got much better at it.

Also 2nd gear low is much smoother than 1st, and there is nothing wrong with driving it that way compared to 1st. 1st gear is for parking and starting, that's about it. It's way too jerky for anything else. Rolling in parking lots or traffic, I'll even let the car go down to idle engaged in 2nd.

A sudden change in clutch pedal height does suggest maybe a bent clutch fork or something. Wargasm is pretty good with the FD clutch assembly, maybe he might have an idea. But he may be really busy now. Dale also has a good point that the clutch may not have been disengaging completely before and wore out too quickly.

Dave

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Hey guys. I figured out the problem, and I had it fixed (I hope lol...for now). Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

Dale, you're right, to an extent. My FB just came out of the shop today, so I presumed that she'd be running just fine. So before I went to pick it up, I gave PFS a call, and big surprise, no one answered lol (for those of you who are familiar w/ PFS, it's a rarity to get them on the phone). Plus, I know usually they're real busy, and I need to schedule an appointment a week or two in advance. So I said what the heck...might as well give Performance Buyer's Club a try (as per Neal's constant edging hehe).

SIDENOTE: Neal, I saw your car parked out front. FINALLY I see the infamous FD hehe. PS: you need hard pipes!!That's you're problem!!

So...I called 'em up, described the problem, and told him I wanted to get it checked out w/o dropping the tranny. The guy I spoke to (Peter) told me sure, no prob...the 3rd gens have an inspection plate in the tranny, and they can check it out from there. So I asked him if they take appointments...for like an hour from now LOL. He asked the mechanic (David) if he had a couple minutes to check out a clutch issue, and was like sure, come on in! That, I REALLY liked...squeezing me in.

So I got there...there's a bunch of 3rd gens and miatas sitting around the parking lot, so that's a good sign hehe (it was my first time going there, and I only know one other person who's been there). Peter's very social, we get to talking, and he tells me to drive the car up onto the lift. This is where it got fun lol. It took about 3 tries to get the lift bars (I guess you call them) under my car and the lifting points high enough so that the bar doesn't destroy my sideskirts lol. Oh, the hassle of dealing w/ bodykits...

Anyways...David pulls off the inspection plate, and takes a look at the clutch. He told me there's not much you can see, but from the small area he had, and using a flashlight and a little mirror that reaches into the tranny, he said it definitely doesn't look like it's my clutch. In fact, he said from what he saw, the clutch looks pretty new, and that it looks to have a lot of face on it. He also checked to see if the clutch fork was broken, but it wasn't.

Next he checked out the slave cylinder. It looked brand new (told ya, I had it replaced only about a year ago). He also looked around each rotor, which I suspect was him checking for any brake fluid leaking. He found that the driver side front wheel had a bent control arm I think it was? He said it happens, from hitting a bad bump etc, and is nothing to worry bout. So that was all for stuff under the car.

He put it back down, then popped the hood. Brake fluid was full, there didn't seem to be any leaks anywhere. So he got in the car, and looked behind the pedals (where I think the master cylinder is?). He immediately noticed a problem: the clutch had been adjusted too far in, so that even when the clutch was completely released, the piston was still somewhat depressed, stopping the fluid from running to the master cylinder (at least that's what I recall him saying). A few adjustments and a couple min later, he was like "ok how's that?" So I took it for a drive....yes, the pedal seemed lighter than normal (which he stated was pretty heavy for him, I guess comparing it to stock), but I IMMEDIATELY noticed the car would actually engage low (like it's supposed to). It was a cinch to engage the clutch, and get the car going. The shift from 1st to 2nd was super smooth too. No probs whatsoever. I tried going from a stop to 1st a bunch of times, and each times it was perfect. So I went back in, extatic lol, and had a 20 min talk w/ Peter about other random stuff (3rd gen related).

When paytime came, Peter was like ok, we'll charge you a 1/3 of an hour's rate, which came out to a huge whopping $25 lol. That put a HUGE smile on my face. Didn't have to drop the tranny, didn't have to spring for a new clutch, didn't have to replace any of the cylinders...just a minor adjustment, AND I actually got charged for a PORTION of an hour (not the usual "labor = $XX/hr, or any part thereof) lol. AAAAND...I was on my way in what...20 min? A BIG THUMB'S UP TO PERFORMANCE BUYER'S CLUB

The ONLY prob I had was that when I came to start my car to leave, I noticed lots of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust...a lot more than usual, and it took prob. an entire minute or two to clear. David told me that the turbo seal gets oil on it, and on startup, that oil is burned...and I guess the bigger the crack in the turbo manifold, the more oil leaks on it? (When I bought the car 2 years ago, I knew the primary turbo had a small crack that was leaking a bit of oil). So I guess it's only a matter of time... You can't have it all, can ya?

On a final note, if anything I said doesn't make sense mechanically, it's prob. cuz of my bad memory and cuz I'm not very mechanically inclined. But PBC has been around for 9 years now I believe, and they def. seem to know what they're doing. I know where I'll be going back to...

Thanks man...the offer means a lot. Seriously. It just so happens that the guys that usually help me out w/ my car are about 100 miles away in DE. You might know them... Scrub, MakoDHardie, SurroundedBySe7ens, rdavidsrx7, etc. (aka Grease Monkey Motorsports haha )

Oh and Dave, thanks for the tips. Making a mental note now...

su_maverick

lol, thanks for the advice ramy....if I had known that you were going to stop by I would have had them show you the huge gash in the intercooler piping (hello 4psi leak).
They seemed like really good guys when I stopped by there. The cheif mech. was telling me that they have found a way to replace the front gasket without pulling the motor so that way they can do the work in 7 hours billed rather than the 12 hours that the manual states. I was very impressed with the shop. I will do a write up in the NE section when the work is done with.

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

BS. I had an ACT on my last FD. Because I didn't break it in it last me about 5 weeks and that was without hard launches.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Neal, why do you think I said "YOU NEED HARDPIPES" ?? I saw the gash lol. What I'm trying to figure out is...you didn't HEAR the boost leak? It shoulda been pretty loud...

I had a loose coupler between the IC and the crossover pipe...I didn't know where the leak was initially, but I could HEAR it. All I did was start the engine, pop the hood, and use the throttle control to rev the engine into boost while standing to the side, w/ the hood open. The strong gust of air blowing in my face tipped me off to where the boost leak was...

You should. I freakin love the place already haha.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

It depends on the clutch disc:

Do ACT clutches require a break in period?

For organic street discs "00 and SS" we recommend breaking in the clutch for 200-300 miles with mild engagement such as stop and go city driving prior to racing or spirited driving. ACT race discs usually only require a few hard slips to lap in the surfaces prior to normal driving or racing. Do not overheat the clutch during the break in period.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I definitley had lots of stop & go driving on the clutch when I first got it, but I can't remember whether or not I took any spirited drives that early on. Chances are that I did, but not very many...

On a sidenote, since I wasn't inside the car pressing on the clutch pedal while David was looking thru the inspection plate, he couldn't see the surface of the clutch itself. He did say he could see something else (forget what it's called), but it's basically what the clutch is set in, and he said usually it wears w/ the clutch...and since it looks pretty much brand new, he highly doubts the clutch is worn any... For now, let's see how far the pedal adjustment gets me