CapitanCombo

Here is the problem:
I put on some mods recently, they got in all in one time, so I don't have any parameters to compare with "before" including datas from PFC.
Mods are; BLITZ FMIC, KOYO, PFC, DP and MP, already had a power intake.
I though that with the Koyo, water temps should stay around 85-90, considering also that here outside temp ranges from 5 to 13 °C.
Instead I constantly see temps over 95 °C with peaks of 105 driving around in traffic.
Fans are always on at speed one over 95°C and at speed 2 over 98
If I cruise on highways, temp goes down to 90°C more or less.
Sometimes even lower around 82.
But as soon as I stop, it goes over 95, getting fan on.
I never saw temps over 105, that reassures me a lot.
But I think that it is really too much.
Note that I no longer have stock fans, they didn't fit with a Blitz FMIC and a Koyo, had to fit into a pair of ultra-thin Spal 12", I think they might pull a little bit less than stock ones, but they were the only one that could fit inside there.
I also had to change the speed logic.
I mean Spals are not compatible with multiple speed so I had to get one fan on at speed one and both at speed two, I lost in fact speed three.
There might be still some air in the water circuit, because I still hear sometimes water gurgling in the heater inside the car, but it should be a very small quantity.

Any suggestion?

particleeffect

have the fans come on medium at 90, flush your coolant if you haven't recently, and replace your tstat if you feel it might be a problem. 105 degrees isn't really an issue, you could leave it like it is. but i don't know of any reason why not to run it cooler.

it's rather normal to hear a little gurgling from the turbos after you shut down. you might get rid of it by running a little more coolant to raise the boiling point, but i've never been told to worry about it.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

105 C is not too hot. 115 C should be your worrying point.

With an FMIC, you will be blocking some air into the radiator unless you create some custom ducting to bring air from underneath it. So, regardless of the radiator type, you will run a little warmer with the FMIC (all other things being equal) than with an SMIC.

1234rotor

iTrader: (1)

You could run the evans NPG and have less worries from what I have heard.You just have to drain properly and install it properly. I am going to do that and a fan mod on my stock radiator instead of buying an aftermarket radiator. I also want to vent the hood.

fdeeznutz

My friend here on the board had the same setup (Koyo and Blitz FMIC) and he had no problem fitting the stock fans. What problems did you have fitting them?

cruiser

Hey Matteo... sorry for offtopic, but who mapped your PFC ?
I'm thinking of getting one myself but only thing that keeps me away from going that route is the fact there is no-one around that could tune rotary.

Did you go with base map ? Or did you get some tuned map for your mods ?

moehler

iTrader: (12)

although those temps are not at "worrying point", they seem a little high. on the hottest days in Philly (95 deg F) I never go above 90 deg C on my PFC (even in dead stop traffic). I don't have a front mount, but given you water temps when abient temps are around 10 deg C I would think you have a small problem. maybe air in your system or a bad raidator cap.

impactwrench

I believe you have more air left in there than you think

CapitanCombo

Yes, I do believe I have more air then what I think, I flushed completely everything including the water in the block. I got brand new coolant and had some issues in getting the air away, because in fact there is no bleed screw at the top like in my Nissan S14.
I installed also a new AST that may bee too low, but there is the place the Blitz bracket forces to place it (as said in the kit instructions).

CapitanCombo

Stock fans don't fit at all
also because of the R1 package that includes the oil line for the second oil cooler
I was forced to get ultra thin Spals

CapitanCombo

Also: thermostat is brand new
I may try to get another with a lower opening point

CapitanCombo

I am running base map
but only boosting up to 0,55 bar
I tried to boost at 1 bar but duty goes at 100%
I have the Supra pump and 1300 injectors ready to go in
Base map is fine runs smooth and A/F is around 11:1 at 0,55 bar
Will have it tuned as soon as I have everything ok, including water temp

skunks

do you have an old thermostat? if so, try gutting it for the hell of it and reinstalling it. your new thermostats could be bad.

maxcooper

Here are some ideas to cool it down:

1. Install a bung in the top of the radiator so you can get the air out. Air in the system could be your main problem right now. Here's what mine looks like:


2. Figure out how to fit the stock fans + shroud, look for higher-flowing thin fans, or setup a shroud around the back of the radiator so that you're sure the fans are sucking all their air through the radiator core (and not just a mix of through the core and around the sides of the fans). There is a very wide range of flow peformance in electric fans, so it might be that the ones you have now just don't flow much compared to the stock fans.

3. Create some ducting from the nose to the radiator to make sure that the fans are sucking cool air from the nose of the car and not recirculating warm engine bay air. This will also help cooling when the car is moving since it will force more air through the radiator core. The nose of my car is all ducted up, the air flows through a FMIC, AC, and finally the radiator (MazdaComp / Ron Davis) and the peak coolant temp I have recorded on my digital gauge is 185F (light driving since I am still breaking it in, but I've been stuck in traffic, and city driving in up to 75F ambient temps so far). The ducting seems to work very well.

-Max

CapitanCombo

Max's idea for the bleed screw is good, will try to pull out all the air before trying other mods.
I do have the old thermostat, will try also to gut it.
Another thing, I installed a underdrive pulley set for water pump and alternator
that set is an Ebay cheap one
it came also with a shorter belt, and I removed air pump.
I noticed, with engine shut of, that the water pulley slips a bit, I mean I can rotate it.
But I don't think it could be a problem of it slipping when the engine is on, I mean, it has a very low power consumption even at high revs.
could this be the problem?

alberto_mg

A friend of mine runs the Greddy FMIC with a Koyo radiator and his water temps stay in the 80s-90s in similar weather as yours. It is an R1 and fit fine with the stock fans.

I think you might need to keep bleeding the coolant and/or try putting on the stock pullies to see if that helps. From there you might want to try the fans. It would probably be best to use the stock fans with the fan shroud to help improve the ability of the fans to pull heat through the radiator. You have those 3 points to troubleshoot for now.

Good luck.

CapitanCombo

I thank you all for those ideas.
Alberto, I can't understand how could your friend fit the stock fans there inside, they are almost twice as thick, and there is no space at all to fit them.
I tried and tried many times even thinking about cutting some parts of the shroud, but I could not get thru it.
Spals seems fine and have a small thin shroud and pull nicely (and are a lot more silent than stock).
Also, about pulleys, I can try to put the stock back on but I think I will have the same slipping problem, maybe even worse because the stock one is not "grinded" on the surface where the belt goes on, the slipping problem is cause by not having the air pump and a shorter belt that does not "embrace" the pulley enough.
Or maybe it is just a matter of pulley revs.
Will try in first to bleed out air.

zullo

I read these claims and I'm curious how this is possible. Not that I doubt your numbers, Max, but I don't understand...

My car seems to me to be behaving as I would expect according to the thermostat and thermoswitch settings. The thermostat opens at 85C and that is the temp I see - rock steady - on the highway. I have a 95C Miata thermoswitch, and I hold at 94-95C as expected while sitting in traffic with fans cycling on and off periodically.

I don't understand how a car - especially a rotary - can maintain a steady temperature below the temperature at which the fans switch on when sitting in traffic and not moving air through the radiator? How is it that your radiator cools that efficiently without the fans on and why does my new Koyo not do the same? Ducting has nothing to do with it and fans have nothing to do with it, so somehow your cooling system reaches equilibrium at the temperature the thermostat opens yet mine must be kept in check by the fans. What's the secret?

Meiogirl

iTrader: (2)

this might be too simple, but are you sure your temp gauge is reading correctly?

zullo

Too simple, and everything is operating to spec. Why do you ask?

My point is simply: When stopped in traffic, very little cooling is taking place by virtue of the radiator. Therefore one would expect temperatures to rise until the fans kick on and move some air. But Max and others claim they can operate in traffic at well below the temp where the fans kick on. How? I want my car to do that too!

Alpine

max, where did you get the radiator bleeder hole done? I want to do this to mine as well, but I'm worried about metal debris falling into the radiator when they do this.

Jonesboro

Check your radiator hoses to see if one of them may be "pinched" thereby restricting flow in or out of the radiator. The lower flow rate would cause higher water temps

alberto_mg

I'm not sure, but possibly having the PowerFC turn the fans on early can help that. I was reading through one of SleepR1s threads once and he has his low speed fans come on at 85 degrees. Max also has a pretty nice ducting setup that helps improve suction of the fans through the rad and IC. Check out his pics in the singe turbo thread.

Good luck.

jeremyb

My car sits in bumper to bumper traffic every other day for about a good 50 minutes or so. Without the fans, I hit 90ºC... with the fans on, I canget 85 - 86ºC and stay there.

What do you mean ducting has nothing to do with it? Many people with a FMIC that encounter heating problems duct they're bumper mouth to the radiator as a SOLUTION to their problems. Even without a fmic, many people have ducted the open spots that surround the edges of the underbelly shroud.

Jeremy

maxcooper

I had Performance Solutions (fab shop behind Mazdatrix) do it when the radiator was out of the car. However, I think the plug is only useful for setups where the radiator is mounted more vertically than stock, which also means it should be easier to take out, add plug, and put back in.

-Max