apex_sideway

Get a LS1 conversion. *puts flame suit on*

Recentlyconverted

wecome to my world, and the world of most of us on the forum for that matter. part of owning an fd it seems is understanding that things can go wrong and when they do it's usually at the most unopportune times. I hear ya man.


sounds like you're going down the right path. ground the car dude, if you drive it more you'll do more damage. get the car fixed right, get the engine work done first, whatever that might be, then worry about the clutch, then worry about the suspension.

Look at it this way man, you're fixing all of the problems that the previous owner never dealt with, so basically you're restoring the car to the way it should be. Once it is the way it should be, you'll fall in love with it all over again, trust me. Since you are having problems with the bushings, you probably never knew what an FD with a good suspension feels like. Trust me, you'll be amazed.

I'm not gonna make the decision for you, you gotta do what your heart tells you to do, but think of it this way, if you had an S2K and were driving down the street, if you saw a properly running FD drive past you, would you regret getting rid of the FD?? If the answer is yes or no, you've already answered your question.

PhoenixDownVII

Fumanchu:

As you said, it is subjective. Sorry to hear you had a crappy 93, but my mint 94 has no interior issues, and is as stout as any Toyota/Honda I've ridden in.

Rarity, I agree, isn't an issue for me. The FD is beautiful, and if it wasn't rare, I'd still love it's chasis/interior setup. The rest of it, aesthetically, is up to our opinions. I don't think the S2k looks as good, while definitely not ugly either. Never took to that "copperhead" front end.

I didn't know Supercharging the S2K would be so "cheap", judging by most NA->FI prices and also the fact that the motor seems highly tuned and would need things like a different headgasket to lower compression, I just thought it'd be more like $8k+ to do any FI correctly (Fuel, ECU management as well,...perhaps if the tranny/rear wasn't strong enough etc.)

Recentlyconverted

get the hell outta this forum..........

j/k

DigDug

Oops, I managed to offend an S2000 owner.

If the S2000 suits you better, that's great. Like somebody else said, if you plan to keep it mostly stock and want it to be a true daily driver, you're definitely better off with the Honda.

Otherwise, it depends on what you're looking for in a car, I suppose.

As for my experience, I was disappointed...

kuning

Some updates:
I just got a call from the workshop. Was about to pick it up today but damn public transpot got hijacked or something that they had all the trains grounded.
Cost me a stunning AUD$1000.00 :|, so again my budget for clutch's gone....


It turns out that the heater core cracks. I'm note sure why either maybe because the last time I replace it was with a 2nd hand part but I'll confirm that tomorrow when i pick it up. Now the plastic heater core has been replaced with a brass heater core instead of the plastic from Mazda. And there's no way that it would blew up again. The hoses has also been replaced. The under tank coolant container hose has also been replaced.

In a way it means to me that I've replaced another worn part.

In your point of view, would it be best to replace the clutch first or respray the car?
In the process of respraying the car, what sort parts under the chasis that would need to be taken out? What about the chasis behind the dash?
So basically everything but the engine bay.
I'll go and pick it up tomorrow, then I'll update some more info.

kuning

I want a car that can be driven as a car's true purpose in a way of being driveable when i want to drive it. I know I'm not going to drive it every day of the week, maybe twice or three times a week to get something to eat, hang out etc. I don't believe that the FD is incapable of doing such.


FD is my dream car from ages ago. If I sell it and see one on the road, I would be regretting it too for sure. As for rarity, it plays a factor on my decision too coz ya know...just an ego thing. But one reason why I bought an FD was I wanted to prove to others that this is a car that's not what's other people have said (unreliable,**** car,etc). But to done so, I've been through hard times and pressure so I'm losing faith that I should better off give up on it and not a suitable car for me.....

racer1

I drive the car every day, in traffic, in heat, in rain and snow. I do not have a daily beater and 2 years now i am fine with it. You just have to take good care of it. You can daily drive the FD like you can with any other car including S2000. The only difference is the consumption, and more expenses. If you can afford that then y not?

PhoenixDownVII

Amen.



















(Except for the snow part. Salt kills. I oughta Slap you...:P)

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

kuning,

People have been telling you to get rid of the FD and get something else. Yet, you don't want to. So, keep it and just deal with the problems. You've already made up your mind or you would have already put it up for sale. Now you just have to move on and fix the problems on the car.

Fumanchu

Actually I had a '94. Every year is prone to cheap plastic interior. Why don't you ask how many FD owners still have a operating compartment lid on their door? Or how many interior passenger-side door handles are loose? To me a door-handle is meant to be used and it's ridicules when you have to baby it so it doesn't break.


Those surpechargers prices I quoted are for the bolt-on kit. It includeds everything needed to run the system and no engine modifications are needed either. You must have missed where Honda will still warranty the motor up to 100k with the blower installed. How many FD's had replaced motors before they turned over 50k? And they were stock.





340-355hp at the crank is just under 300 at the wheels. And this is achieved with only 7-8 psi. Add a smaller pulley, bigger injectors, and a AEM ECM and 400rwhp is easily attainable.


kuning - Register at the s2k forum and do some research. It just seems that you are in the same mind-set I was when I made the switch. I just wanted to show you the truth about s2ks. There was too much bullshit in the beginning of the thread.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

damn nice fumanchu

its funny how we all try to argue on how our FD's are reliable, especially compared to the reliability king..HONDA...

i love my FD, i know its a pos sometimes but i would never compare to an s2k, that car is on a whole new level, most of us have to realize that our cars are just old..

the newer cars are simply made better and are better in every way (technology etc)..and thats that..

PhoenixDownVII

Fumanchu:

My 93 comment came from experience, the difference is Night/Day between the two. But honestly, is a door compartment lid a reason to ignore a car's performance? Of course not, and you had other points to make as well:

The door handle thing was solved in 94 too, from what I've seen. Maybe some cars still have that issue, but again, it's hardly a reason to dump a car from a list of possibilities.

I've been in a long, way-too-many hours of time consuming debate over what car is "IT". I love lightweight, and great placement, but would love some power. I don't think it should be the end of the world to ask for all of this in a beautifully designed chasis. SCCA places the FD in SS with very few other cars for a reason. http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2005/stockc.html. However, a SC'd S2k is not on that list

That part is opinionated, of course. And it was only my ignorance that led me to believe, that, like any other Vtec or Highly tuned NA motor, that there was/is little room for power expansion unless you replace a lot. And with that, are these supercharged S2k's doing fine on stock rear, tranny, clutch, etc? How do all the other systems (besides the motor) fair as far as handling the extra power? And how is the torque/powerband/power-delivery on such a setup?

Fumanchu

N/A wise, these cars can't suck in anymore air. If you throw on all the bolt-ons, s2k's usually only gain 20rwhp at best. Honda just made the car too damn efficient.


Here is a dyno from a guy running the Comptech System with stock boost with exhaust and a bored out TB.




Drivetrain wise, it seems the s2k can hold up to low 300's with no problems. I say this because I have not read many instances with anybody having problems. There would be threads around if this wasn't the case. I imagine the clutch is on the weak side for that kind of power. But most people upgrade the clutch anyways.



Here is a dyno from Vortech's website. Not sure why they post this dyno with the low numbers. It is on a Mustang Dyno but it shouldn't be that low just because of that. Many people dyno the car with just under 300rwhp. It could be because the test car seemed to be running stock exhaust. Just ignore the numbers but look at the line.

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/s2k_dyno.gif

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

The only reason the FD is still in SS is to *protect* the C4 vette and other AS cars. The FD is seriously outclassed in SS. There are more C4 vette owners than FD owners and the FD has a bad rep for availability and cost to run. If the FD was in AS then that class would turn out just like SS was in the mid-late 90's when the FD was kickin' the crap out of everything. Stock classes are setup so newer cars win. That is the way it should be IMHO.

Ry Takashi

sell the FD and get an FC make it real nice and youll probably still have money left over forthe first months rent.

PhoenixDownVII

That torque curve isn't as nice as a sequential turbo'd rotary at 300 to the wheels. I know, I should talk, considering my motor is known for anything but torque @ 1.3 litre's of displacement but, it just seems like adding that power to the S2K is definitely in the much higher range, look at the lift after "6000" Rpm's (Vtec area?)

Have you seen the dynographs of a sequential system (or a good single) on an FD? I've seen some very nice curves.

Turbojeff: Interesting point, didn't know that. So it doesn't fare well with newer cars in SS (seen the Z06's dominate at the local AutoX I attend) but is "too good" for AS at some degree? Oh well, good thing I just race for fun :P

Fumanchu

I 100% agree that the torque on the f20c is anywhere close to being desirable. But after you wind up to 9k in first gear, the 6th speed tranny keeps you above vtec engagement until top speed. I did miss my 100% running sequential system in the FD for a little bit until I hit 9k in my s2000 with my intake installed. If there is a motor that likes to rev more than a rotary motor, the f20c is it.


Can't really comment on racing characteristics with the car since I haven't done any yet. But I imagine the lack of torque would hurt the car in a tight autoX course. But that's not my cup of tea anyways. I can't wait to make my car scream around a large high-speed track where the car really shines.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

The FD is an odd bird I think (we know that). It is a formidable auto-xer, very close to the top of the heap IMHO. The problem is that it can't compete against the fastest of cars (Z06 or C5 for example, the Elise?) but it beats everything else out there. So where do you put an old sports car that is tempramental and high maintence but fast?

Do you let it kick the crap out of all the new cars in AS? So to win in AS you can't just go out and buy a new Honda or BMW or find a C4 (plentiful and easy to find) and be competitive. You've got to restore a FD or find a low mileage one.

The FD is too good for AS. The FD has a power and torque advantage over the S2K, I wouldn't be surprised if it's chassis is stiffer too.

Typically older cars migrate to classes in which they can be modified. The problem for the FD is that is responds well to mods but again the pesky C5 Vette does too. SM2 was won last year by a FD, but it takes a high level of preparation to win against a C5.

For a driver I'd pick a S2K. For a import hot rod I'd pick the FD. It is crystal clear IMHO.

PhoenixDownVII

The gearing explanation makes sense as you said once you go from 9k in 1st gear from a stop, as such with the FD too, even. But there are times and moments when you want to go from xxmph to a higher speed, that the lack of torque isn't simply solved by downshifting, only because going 2 gears down is too high, or one gear down is not yet at the powerband...etc. Every situation is different, but I find time and time again I'd appreciate more torque/sequential power.

Then again I've been tossing and turning about the idea of the LS1-FD setup so perhaps I should just stay out of any high-rev'ing debates :P

Fumanchu

I hear you. When cruising on the freeway in 6th gear, if I downshift to 3rd it puts me at 7k. In 4th it puts me at 5500 or so. Just depends on the situation.

Mazda99Nikon

I think you've got two options if you own an FD. You can build a horsepower monster that is all go and show (if you have the money) but don't depend on it to visit the inlaws three states away. If you need it for transportation, keep it stock, just do the reliability mods and have faith that it will get you anywhere an S2000 will. Today I did a 350 mile trip on the hottest day of the year. My FD was flawless and a joy to drive but all I have in terms of serious mods is a custom intake, downpipe, competition light weight clutch and boost controller. Everything else is done for relaibility. It's worth the peace of mind. I don't need 400 HP to get from point a to point b, legally. Think about what you are really doing with the car before you spend your retirement money.

PhoenixDownVII

Yea, but I am starting to hate that. Everyone's told to keep their cars stock. Once you mod it, it's the end of the world.

I can name a plenthera of crazy cars/setups that are daily driven with mods up the wazoo. It's a poor excuse for poor engineering.

I'm workin on that part though...

Mazda99Nikon

Well, here are some more observations. You can make a few mods without any brains. The ram air/K&N airbox I've got didn't take any brains. The downpipe didn't take any brains and a good catback doesn't take any brains. All together, it will net you around 18 hp. The lightweight clutch will help you put a little more of that hp to the ground, faster. On a nice cool day, I can lay down sub 5 sec. 0-60 times, consistently. Now, you can go for 4.2 sec. 0-60 times by installing new, larger injectors, Walbro fuel pump, a midpipe and a PFC to control it all, but 90 percent of the people on this forum who do this themselves will blow up their car, eventually. Why? Because doing those mods takes either brains and experience or a lot of money to have someone else do it right. It's not a matter of poor engineering on Mazda's part. Adding around 20 HP like I've done without changing the ecu or fuel delivery system but keeping a reliable car is a testament to Mazda's engineering, I think. Yes, maybe they could have built the intake a little better upfront, spent more money on a lighter flywheel and maybe enigneered a better exhaust system, but then, they couldn't sell enough cars at the original asking price for what they did engineer. We are the beneficiaries of their marketing problems, not victims of their engineering department. Why is it everyone wants an RX-7 now that you can buy a decent one for $15-16,000?

Some of the problems younger RX-7 owners on this board appear to have is a common problem shared between the Ruskies and our military hawks back in the 1960s. Remember the missile gap? If the Ruskies had more nukes than we did, it was a crisis. Never mind the fact that we already had enough nukes to blow up the planet. Younger RX-7 owners are the same. They see a new S2000 sporting a blower and suddenly their well modded RX-7 is not good enough anymore. Never mind the fact that you can already blow away 99.9 percent of the average vehicles on the highway, to begin with. But really, is that doctor in his blower powered S2000, or Ferrari or Lambo really going to race you at the next stop light? Unless you are headed for the track, you will never need all that extra HP legally. Heck, give the guy in the blowered S2000 a thumbs up and go home and crack some books so someday you can buy a decent house with the latest Porsche Turbo in the garage. That will buy you speed and reliability.

I will now go back to my old geezer's cave and take a nap.