VMIC vs SMIC Challenge
09-24-05, 11:50 AM
#151
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Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
The only proof I have is that a friend on mine with the board name of SkywarpR, here on the forum who has a large SMIC, we left a meet at treasure island at the same time, I had at that time the medium v-mount set up, we both were heatsoaked while the car was parked, as soon as we left treasure Island we were both at 46c, he beeped me with the nextel to ask what my temp was within about 30 seconds of driving the car, I was at about 36c and he was still at 40c, I dropped down to 28c and he was just at 36c within about 2 minutes on the freeway, I did not even have the ducting on the left side at that time.
Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
The way I see it as far as reason why it recovers faster is the fact that it get more direct airflow since there is nothing blocking the path like a duct. Mind you this is only how I see it and I am not saying that this is the main reason why.
Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
I am no expert but this is what we saw.....
Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
One thing that I noticed is that people who have never seen or experienced a v-mount set up always doubt it's performance, this could be also due to price, but the RE setup is cheaper than every v-mount set up out there, KS is like $3000.00 and HKS is like $2100 without a radiator.
Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
Almost every single person that has seen it and experienced it would never go back to any setup, I got about 3 of my friend to convert from either a SMIC or a FMIC and they dont regret the extra cash that they had to save up for it, as far as I know they love it and would never look back...
-Alex
09-24-05, 11:51 AM
#152
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Originally Posted by BlueRex
This is the last time I'm going to explain this.
A temperature DIFFERENCE of 10-20 degrees celsius is equal to a temperature DIFFERENCE of 18-36 degrees fahrenheit. If you were stating that the temps were at 10-20C then it would have been equivalent to the temps being at 50-68F, but you were stating a temperature DIFFERENCE. When going from celsius to fahrenheit you have to correct for the freezing point (0C or -32F).
A temperature DIFFERENCE of 10-20 degrees celsius is equal to a temperature DIFFERENCE of 18-36 degrees fahrenheit. If you were stating that the temps were at 10-20C then it would have been equivalent to the temps being at 50-68F, but you were stating a temperature DIFFERENCE. When going from celsius to fahrenheit you have to correct for the freezing point (0C or -32F).
That post explains how I understood Chuck. I may be wrong though.-Alex
Edit: Ahhhh! I read Chucks post a few more times, and you are correct BlueRex. It appears he's saying that there will be a diffrence of 10-20C between the two intercoolers, NOT that his intercooler will read 10-20C lower.
Last edited by TT_Rex_7; 09-24-05 at 11:59 AM.
09-24-05, 12:58 PM
#155
Originally Posted by saxyman990
Ramy, thanks for your concern. As I mentioned to Chuck in my post above, my perspective is NOT limited. I've been around this drama for quite some time and I've read/reread all threads pertaining to the subject. I understand the history and background quite well. I never said that Chuck is the only guilty party, as I definitely have some issues with the way Kevin has been handling things too. I was hoping that Chuck was the better man, and I expected much more of him. He proved me wrong.
I work as an engineer in the government. You better believe that I deal with the same type of sh~t every single day that I go to work. I understand as well as anyone how frustrating situations like this can be. But in my line of work, actions similar to Chuck's are not an option. I don't feel they should be in the civilian world either. As an engineer, I'm trained to cut my losses and find an alternate solution once I deem a situation to be beyond repair. That's exactly what I've done here: I grabbed the yellow handle and punched-out.
As far as the PM goes, you're probably right. That's what I had originally planned to do. But he pissed me off so much, that I felt everyone on the forum had a right to understand what I did and why. I'm not expecting anyone else on this forum to agree with me (actually, I expect quite the opposite), and I will never hold that against anyone. What I did was my personal decision. It'll probably end up hurting me in the long run, as I'm sure I've also ticked off some great forum contributors (like youself). The fact that I am willing to loose great forum members as friends/contacts over this should explain to you just how mad I am.
Again, thanks for your concern.
-Rob
I work as an engineer in the government. You better believe that I deal with the same type of sh~t every single day that I go to work. I understand as well as anyone how frustrating situations like this can be. But in my line of work, actions similar to Chuck's are not an option. I don't feel they should be in the civilian world either. As an engineer, I'm trained to cut my losses and find an alternate solution once I deem a situation to be beyond repair. That's exactly what I've done here: I grabbed the yellow handle and punched-out.
As far as the PM goes, you're probably right. That's what I had originally planned to do. But he pissed me off so much, that I felt everyone on the forum had a right to understand what I did and why. I'm not expecting anyone else on this forum to agree with me (actually, I expect quite the opposite), and I will never hold that against anyone. What I did was my personal decision. It'll probably end up hurting me in the long run, as I'm sure I've also ticked off some great forum contributors (like youself). The fact that I am willing to loose great forum members as friends/contacts over this should explain to you just how mad I am.
Again, thanks for your concern.
-Rob
I see and understand your point. I'm not sure what alternative you saw in Chuck's case, however. Maybe I'm an overgrown ogre...but I can tell you that in general, I'm one of the NICEST ppl. And I let many MANY things slide - to the poin that ppl may think they can take advantage of that. But once I get the sense that they are, that's when the ogre comes out of hiding lol. I don't take crap from ANYONE, and am a firm believer of standing up for your rights (including rep) as necessary, when necessary.
Chuck (and any other vendor, for that matter) is in a catch-22. You don't have the "right" to have an opinion or defend your product unless you're a paid advertiser (as someone else said earlier). And if you ARE a paid advertiser, then any time you DO voice your opinion or defend your business, it's viewed as being unprofessional.
Sure, Chuck does a good bit of local work, but I'm sure a HUGE part of his livelihood depends directly on this forum, and the marketing and rep of his products & services on this forum. So slander on here isn't something you can cut your losses and go elsewhere with. This is where it's ALL at, and that's why over the years, there have been quite a few duke-it-out sessions on the forum, because it IS the end-all for many ppl's businesses.
Lastly, for you to lose friends/contacts because of your stance would be a shame, IMO. I still disagree with you firmly, and would love to hear what alternatives you can come up with (to Chuck's action), but I wouldn't hate on you for what you did or be like "oh I'm not talkin to that guy...he's this or that... he doesn't like Chuck." That's just ignorant. So hopefully that assumption (that you'll lose friends/contacts) is incorrect, and people on the forum have no prob w/ allowing others to think for themselves and make their own decisions. I sure don't have anything against you
Originally Posted by ReadyKW
Blue Rex, you are correct.
~Ramy
09-24-05, 01:02 PM
#156
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I really feel it's time for this thread to get closed. I think everyone here now knows about this. By this thread staying open, bickering is just going to continue. We all need to just sit tight, and wait for results.
-Alex
-Alex
09-24-05, 01:22 PM
#157
Originally Posted by TT_Rex_7
Just so you know, I wasn't trying to come across as an ******* or anything. It was a sincere question.
Even though the SMIC uses a duct to get it's airflow, it's still getting plenty of air. Does the intercooler in a VMIC get more air? Yes, however, it doesn't get that much more to make a great significance IMO.
I'm in no way an expert either. I'm just applying as much knowledge as I can. If someone can prove me wrong, that's just fine. It's a chance for us all to learn.
That could be one case. However, in mine, that's not it at all. I decided to go with a custom VMIC setup myself. I chose not to go with the RE VMIC, nor the ASP SMIC, because I needed something custom to meet my needs. In no way was I trying to save a buck, because that never ends up happening.
In my experience, most people that try diffrent setups, always seem to end up going back to the FMIC. Everyones experience will always be diffrence.
-Alex
Even though the SMIC uses a duct to get it's airflow, it's still getting plenty of air. Does the intercooler in a VMIC get more air? Yes, however, it doesn't get that much more to make a great significance IMO.
I'm in no way an expert either. I'm just applying as much knowledge as I can. If someone can prove me wrong, that's just fine. It's a chance for us all to learn.
That could be one case. However, in mine, that's not it at all. I decided to go with a custom VMIC setup myself. I chose not to go with the RE VMIC, nor the ASP SMIC, because I needed something custom to meet my needs. In no way was I trying to save a buck, because that never ends up happening.
In my experience, most people that try diffrent setups, always seem to end up going back to the FMIC. Everyones experience will always be diffrence.
-Alex
09-24-05, 02:12 PM
#158
This is pretty funny. I'm one of primary subjects of the thread and I'm not even willing to read it . If the test is done by a neutral third party and the gaps are sealed up around the radiator so air either goes through the radiator or IC duct, not around it,(This makes a huge difference as I found out at the OneLap) I'll be happy regardless of the results. I know what mine can do, they've been used for years and years so there's not some big surprise coming unless someone fakes the test. People have been posting temp data from mine for years.
I was lucky enough to have someone PM the post made by the mad genius Pomanwhateveritwas. Didn't you swear you'd never post another thing in the forum ever again? "Too stupid to get a patent..." The stupid thing to do is pay some worthless patent attorney to soak up some money and after stealing as much money as he can mentioning it's not the type of thing you can patent. Even with hindsight I did it just right. I had to settle for half of what I was really owed but at least I got the $25,000.
Nice try with the Peter Farrel thing again btw. You've been trying to spout that one praying someone would believe you for years now. Get a grip you wacko. Peter was as greedy as they come, he would have been selling them at the drop of a hat if it was something he had come up with. He knew I was selling them like gangbusters and you're trying to claim he just sat quietly. Oh yeah that's the type of timid person Peter was.
Just a little FYI for ya Chuck, I never said ATR copied my downpipe. They actually stole them (as in criminal act). They agreed to manufacture them for me so I sent them the prototype, about 30 laser cut flanges and the whole jig assembly to make them from. Those wonderful people claimed to have lost all of it. A few months later it comes out they're selling new RX7 downpipes, they were a Buick shop. That's what prompted me to force the contract with M2 btw. I learned people in this industry can't be trusted, I later learned that applies to all industries
There are plenty of bright people on this forum so I assume others are aware that people will support whatever they happen to own at the time. It becomes an extension of themselves and they aren't about to insult themselves in front of other people. When people buy some overpriced trendy item that turns out to be a lemon they, in most cases, will still try to talk the product up. They'll convince themselves it's good as a self protection measure. It's pretty few and far between that a person can be objective and say, boy I got taken for a ride, sheesh. I'm not suggesting Chuck's product is a lemon or anything else, I'm just trying to point out that it's a standard human behavior to justify your purchase, regardless of the facts. If anyone watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh#$ they had some great examples of it. Funny show btw.
Have fun in reply
. If the test is done by a neutral third party and the gaps are sealed up around the radiator so air either goes through the radiator or IC duct, not around it,(This makes a huge difference as I found out at the OneLap) I'll be happy regardless of the results. I know what mine can do, they've been used for years and years so there's not some big surprise coming unless someone fakes the test. People have been posting temp data from mine for years.I was lucky enough to have someone PM the post made by the mad genius Pomanwhateveritwas. Didn't you swear you'd never post another thing in the forum ever again? "Too stupid to get a patent..." The stupid thing to do is pay some worthless patent attorney to soak up some money and after stealing as much money as he can mentioning it's not the type of thing you can patent. Even with hindsight I did it just right. I had to settle for half of what I was really owed but at least I got the $25,000.
Nice try with the Peter Farrel thing again btw. You've been trying to spout that one praying someone would believe you for years now. Get a grip you wacko. Peter was as greedy as they come, he would have been selling them at the drop of a hat if it was something he had come up with. He knew I was selling them like gangbusters and you're trying to claim he just sat quietly. Oh yeah that's the type of timid person Peter was.
Just a little FYI for ya Chuck, I never said ATR copied my downpipe. They actually stole them (as in criminal act). They agreed to manufacture them for me so I sent them the prototype, about 30 laser cut flanges and the whole jig assembly to make them from. Those wonderful people claimed to have lost all of it. A few months later it comes out they're selling new RX7 downpipes, they were a Buick shop. That's what prompted me to force the contract with M2 btw. I learned people in this industry can't be trusted, I later learned that applies to all industries
There are plenty of bright people on this forum so I assume others are aware that people will support whatever they happen to own at the time. It becomes an extension of themselves and they aren't about to insult themselves in front of other people. When people buy some overpriced trendy item that turns out to be a lemon they, in most cases, will still try to talk the product up. They'll convince themselves it's good as a self protection measure. It's pretty few and far between that a person can be objective and say, boy I got taken for a ride, sheesh. I'm not suggesting Chuck's product is a lemon or anything else, I'm just trying to point out that it's a standard human behavior to justify your purchase, regardless of the facts. If anyone watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh#$ they had some great examples of it. Funny show btw.
Have fun in reply
09-24-05, 02:46 PM
#159
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10C to 20C difference is 18F to 36F difference. Your conversion is wrong.
EDIT: already been said many times.
Chuck
EDIT: already been said many times.
Chuck
Originally Posted by TT_Rex_7
Bingo! No matter what this test proves, this same principle is still going to apply. The diffrence in temps. will have to be dramatic for people to sway from one to the other. In all the tests that i've seen between diffrent setups, (FMIC, SMIC, etc.) i've never seen a 10-20C (50-100F) diffrence. It'll require a diffrence this large to sway people to a diffrent setup. Unless there's a diffrence of 10-20C, people will stick with what they have.
-Alex
-Alex
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 09-24-05 at 03:00 PM.
09-24-05, 02:51 PM
#160
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Thanks for the input. There is just one little statement regarding my copying Kevin's design.
I have never copied Kevin's anything. I want to make this loud and clear.
Thank you.
Chuck
I have never copied Kevin's anything. I want to make this loud and clear.
Thank you.
Chuck
Originally Posted by pomanferrari
A LITTLE HISTORY FOR YOU YOUNG PUPS:
Kevin always had a hard-on for Chuck b/c Kevin was too stupid to patent his design. For some reasons, Kevin thought it was unethical for Chuck to copy Kevin's design. Too damn bad. The US Supreme court about 100 years ago said it was fine to do so if the owner was too stupid to take advantage of patent or trademark law. The funny thing in all this was that it looked like Kevin stole the idea from Peter Farrell race intercooler design. And then Kevin sold the whole deal to M2 and M2 allegedly ripped Kevin off. Kevin must have hit on hard times b/c he's now back peddling his design.
I bought my car in '95, met Kevin back in '95 during One Lap. He was making half-assed downpipes and headlights back then but decided to elevate himself to be the grand old man of RX7, next to Jim LaPrick. BTW, I still have M2 Large and Jim's POS bushings so I speak from experience as a former customer of both.
Kevin always had a hard-on for Chuck b/c Kevin was too stupid to patent his design. For some reasons, Kevin thought it was unethical for Chuck to copy Kevin's design. Too damn bad. The US Supreme court about 100 years ago said it was fine to do so if the owner was too stupid to take advantage of patent or trademark law. The funny thing in all this was that it looked like Kevin stole the idea from Peter Farrell race intercooler design. And then Kevin sold the whole deal to M2 and M2 allegedly ripped Kevin off. Kevin must have hit on hard times b/c he's now back peddling his design.
I bought my car in '95, met Kevin back in '95 during One Lap. He was making half-assed downpipes and headlights back then but decided to elevate himself to be the grand old man of RX7, next to Jim LaPrick. BTW, I still have M2 Large and Jim's POS bushings so I speak from experience as a former customer of both.
09-24-05, 02:53 PM
#161
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Originally Posted by BlueRex
This is the last time I'm going to explain this.
A temperature DIFFERENCE of 10-20 degrees celsius is equal to a temperature DIFFERENCE of 18-36 degrees fahrenheit. If you were stating that the temps were at 10-20C then it would have been equivalent to the temps being at 50-68F, but you were stating a temperature DIFFERENCE. When going from celsius to fahrenheit you have to correct for the freezing point (0C or -32F).
A temperature DIFFERENCE of 10-20 degrees celsius is equal to a temperature DIFFERENCE of 18-36 degrees fahrenheit. If you were stating that the temps were at 10-20C then it would have been equivalent to the temps being at 50-68F, but you were stating a temperature DIFFERENCE. When going from celsius to fahrenheit you have to correct for the freezing point (0C or -32F).
-Mikey
09-24-05, 03:15 PM
#162
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Originally Posted by rotaryextreme
No, I didn't talk to Dylan. He has greater issue to be fixed. His wiring harness right above the fender liner got chewed by the tire so he need to get those fixed before he can drive at night.
Chuck
Chuck
09-24-05, 03:16 PM
#163
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Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
The only proof I have is that a friend on mine with the board name of SkywarpR, here on the forum who has a large SMIC, we left a meet at treasure island at the same time, I had at that time the medium v-mount set up, we both were heatsoaked while the car was parked, as soon as we left treasure Island we were both at 46c, he beeped me with the nextel to ask what my temp was within about 30 seconds of driving the car, I was at about 36c and he was still at 40c, I dropped down to 28c and he was just at 36c within about 2 minutes on the freeway, I did not even have the ducting on the left side at that time.
I don't want to get into the debate too much, but I will say that Chuck is a very nice guy and has always been very helpful!
Last edited by SkywarpR; 09-24-05 at 03:21 PM.
09-24-05, 03:31 PM
#164
Originally Posted by Kevin T. Wyum
This is pretty funny. I'm one of primary subjects of the thread and I'm not even willing to read it .
.
If the test is done by a neutral third party and the gaps are sealed up around the radiator so air either goes through the radiator or IC duct, not around it,(This makes a huge difference as I found out at the OneLap) I'll be happy regardless of the results.
And you'll be happy regardless? We went from V-mount doesn't work, to doesn't work as well, to the difference is negligible, to now you'll be happy regardless? Wow Kevin. For someone who can drive very well, you sure can't argue very well.
There are plenty of bright people on this forum so I assume others are aware that people will support whatever they happen to own at the time. It becomes an extension of themselves and they aren't about to insult themselves in front of other people. When people buy some overpriced trendy item that turns out to be a lemon they, in most cases, will still try to talk the product up. They'll convince themselves it's good as a self protection measure. It's pretty few and far between that a person can be objective and say, boy I got taken for a ride, sheesh. I'm not suggesting Chuck's product is a lemon or anything else, I'm just trying to point out that it's a standard human behavior to justify your purchase, regardless of the facts. If anyone watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh#$ they had some great examples of it. Funny show btw.
~Ramy
09-24-05, 03:35 PM
#165
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QUOTE=Kevin T. Wyum
This is pretty funny. I'm one of primary subjects of the thread and I'm not even willing to read it. If the test is done by a neutral third party and the gaps are sealed up around the radiator so air either goes through the radiator or IC duct, not around it,(This makes a huge difference as I found out at the OneLap) I'll be happy regardless of the results. I know what mine can do, they've been used for years and years so there's not some big surprise coming unless someone fakes the test. People have been posting temp data from mine for years.
It can be done by a neutral party such a reputable forum member or multiple reputable forum members. The test will not be conducted in a black-box operation. Like I said many times, everyone is welcome to be a witness. No problem with that. I do not understand how sealing off the radiator will help the intake temp on the SMIC because how much air goes through a SMIC is limited by the intercooler duct. The main plus from VMIC is that it will help to reduce intake temp more than SMIC due to larger exposure of the IC core to air. I know yours works. I already give you props on your SMIC. I am not doubting that your SMIC is the BEST SMIC on the market. But VMIC will just work "a little" better on reduction of intake temp, without affecting water temp. I have standed behind the above statement ever since I came out with the Vmount.
Just a little FYI for ya Chuck, I never said ATR copied my downpipe. They actually stole them (as in criminal act). They agreed to manufacture them for me so I sent them the prototype, about 30 laser cut flanges and the whole jig assembly to make them from. Those wonderful people claimed to have lost all of it. A few months later it comes out they're selling new RX7 downpipes, they were a Buick shop. That's what prompted me to force the contract with M2 btw. I learned people in this industry can't be trusted, I later learned that applies to all industries
Sorry for not posting that they also stole your downpipes flanges and jig. Those 30 sets of flanges should have been gone long time ago. So they stole and duplicated.
There are plenty of bright people on this forum so I assume others are aware that people will support whatever they happen to own at the time. It becomes an extension of themselves and they aren't about to insult themselves in front of other people. When people buy some overpriced trendy item that turns out to be a lemon they, in most cases, will still try to talk the product up. They'll convince themselves it's good as a self protection measure. It's pretty few and far between that a person can be objective and say, boy I got taken for a ride, sheesh. I'm not suggesting Chuck's product is a lemon or anything else, I'm just trying to point out that it's a standard human behavior to justify your purchase, regardless of the facts. If anyone watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh#$ they had some great examples of it. Funny show btw.
Your subjective view is why I am forced to do this. None of my customers' feedbacks are good but your customers' feedbacks are always valid. And the most illogical part is that some of my customers are yours as well. When they said good things about your SMIC, it will be added to the pile of "ASP SMIC works the best!". When they say VMIC works better than your SMIC, they don't know what they are talking about and they are just saying it to justify the cost?
I can guarantee you that people who converted from FMIC to VMIC or from SMIC to VMIC are not doing it because it's a trendy item. If they did not see any real results, you bet they will be the first one to talk here. Let's say if someone sells you a Lamborghini Diablo for $250k but later on you found out that it's acutally a very well-done kit car which is worth $50k, are you going to just swallow it because you will look bad in front of people? I bet you will sue the guy and do all means to get your money back. On the contrary, I do not know a single person that has converted from my VMIC to SMIC. If it does not work as advertised, I am sure they will either come here to vent or try something else. What's the next best alternative if they don't want to deal with overheating problem? SMIC. I have never had any negative feeedback on the VMIC I sold that it does not perform as advertised. 70+ sold and zero negative feedback.
Have fun in reply
This is pretty funny. I'm one of primary subjects of the thread and I'm not even willing to read it
. If the test is done by a neutral third party and the gaps are sealed up around the radiator so air either goes through the radiator or IC duct, not around it,(This makes a huge difference as I found out at the OneLap) I'll be happy regardless of the results. I know what mine can do, they've been used for years and years so there's not some big surprise coming unless someone fakes the test. People have been posting temp data from mine for years.It can be done by a neutral party such a reputable forum member or multiple reputable forum members. The test will not be conducted in a black-box operation. Like I said many times, everyone is welcome to be a witness. No problem with that. I do not understand how sealing off the radiator will help the intake temp on the SMIC because how much air goes through a SMIC is limited by the intercooler duct. The main plus from VMIC is that it will help to reduce intake temp more than SMIC due to larger exposure of the IC core to air. I know yours works. I already give you props on your SMIC. I am not doubting that your SMIC is the BEST SMIC on the market. But VMIC will just work "a little" better on reduction of intake temp, without affecting water temp. I have standed behind the above statement ever since I came out with the Vmount.
Just a little FYI for ya Chuck, I never said ATR copied my downpipe. They actually stole them (as in criminal act). They agreed to manufacture them for me so I sent them the prototype, about 30 laser cut flanges and the whole jig assembly to make them from. Those wonderful people claimed to have lost all of it. A few months later it comes out they're selling new RX7 downpipes, they were a Buick shop. That's what prompted me to force the contract with M2 btw. I learned people in this industry can't be trusted, I later learned that applies to all industries
Sorry for not posting that they also stole your downpipes flanges and jig. Those 30 sets of flanges should have been gone long time ago. So they stole and duplicated.
There are plenty of bright people on this forum so I assume others are aware that people will support whatever they happen to own at the time. It becomes an extension of themselves and they aren't about to insult themselves in front of other people. When people buy some overpriced trendy item that turns out to be a lemon they, in most cases, will still try to talk the product up. They'll convince themselves it's good as a self protection measure. It's pretty few and far between that a person can be objective and say, boy I got taken for a ride, sheesh. I'm not suggesting Chuck's product is a lemon or anything else, I'm just trying to point out that it's a standard human behavior to justify your purchase, regardless of the facts. If anyone watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh#$ they had some great examples of it. Funny show btw.
Your subjective view is why I am forced to do this. None of my customers' feedbacks are good but your customers' feedbacks are always valid. And the most illogical part is that some of my customers are yours as well. When they said good things about your SMIC, it will be added to the pile of "ASP SMIC works the best!". When they say VMIC works better than your SMIC, they don't know what they are talking about and they are just saying it to justify the cost?
I can guarantee you that people who converted from FMIC to VMIC or from SMIC to VMIC are not doing it because it's a trendy item. If they did not see any real results, you bet they will be the first one to talk here. Let's say if someone sells you a Lamborghini Diablo for $250k but later on you found out that it's acutally a very well-done kit car which is worth $50k, are you going to just swallow it because you will look bad in front of people? I bet you will sue the guy and do all means to get your money back. On the contrary, I do not know a single person that has converted from my VMIC to SMIC. If it does not work as advertised, I am sure they will either come here to vent or try something else. What's the next best alternative if they don't want to deal with overheating problem? SMIC. I have never had any negative feeedback on the VMIC I sold that it does not perform as advertised. 70+ sold and zero negative feedback.
Have fun in reply
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 09-24-05 at 03:53 PM.
09-24-05, 03:41 PM
#166
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Dylan:
You are more than welcome to use the shop to work on the wires. I got everything you need and can help you out when you have trouble in between.
Chuck
You are more than welcome to use the shop to work on the wires. I got everything you need and can help you out when you have trouble in between.
Chuck
Originally Posted by SkywarpR
I call BS!!! Just kidding, damn I totally forgot about that!
I don't want to get into the debate too much, but I will say that Chuck is a very nice guy and has always been very helpful!
I don't want to get into the debate too much, but I will say that Chuck is a very nice guy and has always been very helpful!
09-24-05, 05:03 PM
#168
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
What I am posting right now has nothing to do with the testing. But since HedgeHog posted here and we were going at it, I will post here as well. After PM'ing, I think we already sorted out the misunderstanding. I should have said things in a pleasant tone in the thread regarding his vmount. Making a suggestion with a tone like a parent scolding the child is not the best way. I got emotional and I said many things I didn't mean. So I will apologize to him in public. And hope the best for his own VMIC project.
Chuck
Chuck
09-24-05, 05:17 PM
#169
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Accorind go those temps, I know I already won.
Chuck
Chuck
Originally Posted by TT_Rex_7
Not to add to the pissing match or anything, but... http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/i...olers.html#ASP
There's quite a few reviews on the ASP intercooler, and it staying cool, etc. on track days. Several people also list what kind of temps they are getting on track days.
-Alex
Edit: Directly from the site listed above.
Testing Conditions:
Ambient 63-65F
Boost level: 12psi @ sea level
Output level: ~300rwhp
- --Medium IC--
Intake T at 50mph cruise: 67F
Peak intake T in 3rd gear WOT run: 98F
Peak intake T in WOT 0-80mph run: 105F
Maximum pressure loss: 1.1psi
- --Large IC--
Intake T at 50mph cruise: 70F
Peak intake T in 3rd gear WOT run: 92F
Peak intake T in WOT 0-80mph run: 99F
Maximum pressure loss: 1.1psi
Test was done on the same car, with the old style medium, and new style large.
That's a rough estimate on what your VMIC will have to beat. From the search i've done on your VMIC, most list temps at ~ the same level. Some stated higher, some stated lower. However, your test should rid the diffrent variables.
There's quite a few reviews on the ASP intercooler, and it staying cool, etc. on track days. Several people also list what kind of temps they are getting on track days.
-Alex
Edit: Directly from the site listed above.
Testing Conditions:
Ambient 63-65F
Boost level: 12psi @ sea level
Output level: ~300rwhp
- --Medium IC--
Intake T at 50mph cruise: 67F
Peak intake T in 3rd gear WOT run: 98F
Peak intake T in WOT 0-80mph run: 105F
Maximum pressure loss: 1.1psi
- --Large IC--
Intake T at 50mph cruise: 70F
Peak intake T in 3rd gear WOT run: 92F
Peak intake T in WOT 0-80mph run: 99F
Maximum pressure loss: 1.1psi
Test was done on the same car, with the old style medium, and new style large.
That's a rough estimate on what your VMIC will have to beat. From the search i've done on your VMIC, most list temps at ~ the same level. Some stated higher, some stated lower. However, your test should rid the diffrent variables.
09-24-05, 05:55 PM
#170
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
QUOTE=saxyman990
Chuck,
First, thanks for the civilized response to my post. I honestly didn't expect that. Although, I haven't read every post on this thread (not worth my time to read such mindless dribble), it seems that you may have finally calmed down. Maybe we're getting somewhere.
I've been around the rotary community for much longer than my join-date and post count indicate. I know the history as well as anyone here (with the obvious and noteable exception of Kevin and yourself). I am extremely interested in the V-mount idea (and I have been even before you started producing them). Therefore, I have read and re-read EVERY single thread on the RX-7Club (not to mention the big list, and "other" various rotary forums) pertaining to VMIC, and Kevin's SMIC; including many threads that did not originally focus on those topics, but were highjacked or otherwise diverted. I honestly think your VMIC is a great product, and I'm still interested in seeing some test results (I have been for many years now). But due to the way things have gone down recently, I'd never be willing to purchase one from you.
That's not a problem. VMIC is a great idea. Even if you don't purchase one from me, you should give it a try. Either get one custom made or buy one of the Japanese ones.
Again, I have no problem with the products that you sell and create (although, I do have an open mind, and I can understand why some do). What I have a problem with is your attitude and the methods you're using to deal with these situations. I expected more from you Chuck, much more.
[B]I am sorry but I have tried to reconcile with Kevin numerous times. Look at the post I wrote before back on 5-19-04 when Kevin called me out for no reason.
As for you Kevin, I actually felt bad for you that you got screwed by M2. I was going to post something to apologize to you that I thought you screwd M2. But when I read your last comment about my being a screwball, all my sympathy went out of the window.
Anyway, after everyone calms down, you think for a sec. I am very capable making an SMIC or even a ASP IC copy if I want to. Why didn't I do it like all the other companies have done to you? It's because I don't run my business to hurt others and I don't like to be in direct competition with others. I hate drama and I don't have time for that kind of ****. Like I said to you before from the vmount thread, you mind your business and I mind mine and everyone is happy. You went crazy after my post because you thought I was going to copy you. If I am really want to screw you or try to hurt your business, I would have done so in many ways already. That was not a threat. Just to prove to you that we don't need to go into battle. Everyone can just do their own stuff quietly in this community and survive at the same time. I hope we can both put this to the past and be happy. It makes me sad that when I see those Japanese racing videos, all those rotary shop owners are having fun together on the track even though they are still competitors in business. We don't really see that kind of harmony here.
Chuck Huang
You can find the whole thread here.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...unt+kevin+wyum
I haven't be posting much because every time I post something, Kevin is there to hunt me down. Do a search on my forum name and see how much I have posted within the past 16 months. But his time, he came out of nowhere again in the "differnt vmount" thread and that just pushed me to the edge.
The above quote is absolutely great advice, and probably one of the few posts that you've made recently that I agree with. You need to read it again, and listen to it. Otherwise, you're just another babbling hipocritical idiot like so many other people. And FYI, I truely AM concerned. The RX-7 aftermaket is going down the tubes, and situations like this are NOT helping. Your actions have forced me to sever one more tie, and further decrease the dwindling support that I already have for my hobby/passion.
I fully agree with you. I have told Kevin to mind his business and I will mind mine but he just can't quit. If you don't know the complete history, you might think I just want to prove another competitor's product inferior but that's not my intention. I am friends with many rotary shops in the US and have business relationships with well known ones such as RX-7 Store, Gotham Racing, A Spec Tuning, Pettit Racing, etc. I do not go out there bashing other people's product and I actually like to work with others because I know this community is very small and we all need to work together to provide customers better products and services. Going into war with other shops will not help anyone at all. But Kevin just does not have the same mind set as I do. Do you think he will ever change? I don't think he even cares if no one buys his IC because his IC sales only contributes 1% of his income. But what he is doing is hurting my business big time. Most of my sales come from the forum and from the internet and my income is 100% from this business. I am just a little guy trying to mind my own business but when a big guy steps on me over the years, should I just let him or fight back when I just can't take it anymore? A good example will be you. I have never done anything to you and you actually think I am extremely helpful but now you will never buy anything from me ever again. If he never stepped on me, this would not have happened, none of this drama would have happened. Is his action hurting my business and reputaion? You bet it does and I have to put a stop to all of this. If I don't do it now, I will probably lose more later on.
Chuck
God speed,
-Rob[/QUOTE]
Chuck,
First, thanks for the civilized response to my post. I honestly didn't expect that. Although, I haven't read every post on this thread (not worth my time to read such mindless dribble), it seems that you may have finally calmed down. Maybe we're getting somewhere.
I've been around the rotary community for much longer than my join-date and post count indicate. I know the history as well as anyone here (with the obvious and noteable exception of Kevin and yourself). I am extremely interested in the V-mount idea (and I have been even before you started producing them). Therefore, I have read and re-read EVERY single thread on the RX-7Club (not to mention the big list, and "other" various rotary forums) pertaining to VMIC, and Kevin's SMIC; including many threads that did not originally focus on those topics, but were highjacked or otherwise diverted. I honestly think your VMIC is a great product, and I'm still interested in seeing some test results (I have been for many years now). But due to the way things have gone down recently, I'd never be willing to purchase one from you.
That's not a problem. VMIC is a great idea. Even if you don't purchase one from me, you should give it a try. Either get one custom made or buy one of the Japanese ones.
Again, I have no problem with the products that you sell and create (although, I do have an open mind, and I can understand why some do). What I have a problem with is your attitude and the methods you're using to deal with these situations. I expected more from you Chuck, much more.
[B]I am sorry but I have tried to reconcile with Kevin numerous times. Look at the post I wrote before back on 5-19-04 when Kevin called me out for no reason.
As for you Kevin, I actually felt bad for you that you got screwed by M2. I was going to post something to apologize to you that I thought you screwd M2. But when I read your last comment about my being a screwball, all my sympathy went out of the window.
Anyway, after everyone calms down, you think for a sec. I am very capable making an SMIC or even a ASP IC copy if I want to. Why didn't I do it like all the other companies have done to you? It's because I don't run my business to hurt others and I don't like to be in direct competition with others. I hate drama and I don't have time for that kind of ****. Like I said to you before from the vmount thread, you mind your business and I mind mine and everyone is happy. You went crazy after my post because you thought I was going to copy you. If I am really want to screw you or try to hurt your business, I would have done so in many ways already. That was not a threat. Just to prove to you that we don't need to go into battle. Everyone can just do their own stuff quietly in this community and survive at the same time. I hope we can both put this to the past and be happy. It makes me sad that when I see those Japanese racing videos, all those rotary shop owners are having fun together on the track even though they are still competitors in business. We don't really see that kind of harmony here.
Chuck Huang
You can find the whole thread here.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...unt+kevin+wyum
I haven't be posting much because every time I post something, Kevin is there to hunt me down. Do a search on my forum name and see how much I have posted within the past 16 months. But his time, he came out of nowhere again in the "differnt vmount" thread and that just pushed me to the edge.
The above quote is absolutely great advice, and probably one of the few posts that you've made recently that I agree with. You need to read it again, and listen to it. Otherwise, you're just another babbling hipocritical idiot like so many other people. And FYI, I truely AM concerned. The RX-7 aftermaket is going down the tubes, and situations like this are NOT helping. Your actions have forced me to sever one more tie, and further decrease the dwindling support that I already have for my hobby/passion.
I fully agree with you. I have told Kevin to mind his business and I will mind mine but he just can't quit. If you don't know the complete history, you might think I just want to prove another competitor's product inferior but that's not my intention. I am friends with many rotary shops in the US and have business relationships with well known ones such as RX-7 Store, Gotham Racing, A Spec Tuning, Pettit Racing, etc. I do not go out there bashing other people's product and I actually like to work with others because I know this community is very small and we all need to work together to provide customers better products and services. Going into war with other shops will not help anyone at all. But Kevin just does not have the same mind set as I do. Do you think he will ever change? I don't think he even cares if no one buys his IC because his IC sales only contributes 1% of his income. But what he is doing is hurting my business big time. Most of my sales come from the forum and from the internet and my income is 100% from this business. I am just a little guy trying to mind my own business but when a big guy steps on me over the years, should I just let him or fight back when I just can't take it anymore? A good example will be you. I have never done anything to you and you actually think I am extremely helpful but now you will never buy anything from me ever again. If he never stepped on me, this would not have happened, none of this drama would have happened. Is his action hurting my business and reputaion? You bet it does and I have to put a stop to all of this. If I don't do it now, I will probably lose more later on.
Chuck
God speed,
-Rob[/QUOTE]
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 09-24-05 at 05:59 PM.
09-24-05, 06:36 PM
#171
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
How are you doing Chris? Haven't seen you or heard from you for a long time. Hope everything is going well with you.
Chuck
Chuck
Originally Posted by sicminded
well, i'm not going to read through 9 pages, but i kinda get where it's going.
just another person wanting to say that i had a large smic setup, and now have the vmount. though i don't have any physical data or proof, on my car i saw lower intake temps and faster recovery from heat soak.
chris
just another person wanting to say that i had a large smic setup, and now have the vmount. though i don't have any physical data or proof, on my car i saw lower intake temps and faster recovery from heat soak.
chris
09-24-05, 06:43 PM
#172
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Don't thank me. I have to thank you for all your support. Customers like you are what's keeping me in this business. I have thought about quitting numerous times due to many reasons such as health, family, etc. But every time I see feedbacks like this, it just keeps me moving. Everything is worth it.
Chuck
Customers like you are what's keeping me in this business. I have thought about quitting numerous times due to many reasons such as health, family, etc. But every time I see feedbacks like this, it just keeps me moving. Everything is worth it. Chuck
Originally Posted by AgentSpeed
I didn't take time to read all this but I think from skimming the first page it is a good idea.
As a regular V mount owner I'm very pleased with mine. The first trip I took with his v mount installed I had a buddy following me with a stock mount IC. At the first gas station we stopped at we bothed popped our hoods. Mine was cold to the touch and his you could fry an egg on. I've bought a few other things from Chuck and I've yet to be unhappy. The times I've talked to him on the phone and through PM's, he's always been more than helpful to me. Most of the time people just want to get your order and then get off the phone quick. Chuck, on the other hand, took the time to talk. Even after we finished the deal at hand, he took the time to talk about some of my past purchases and stuff that I was thinking about buying in the future.
The last thing I want is to step into an internet pissing match, but I did want to state that I was very happy and would buy the set up again in a heart beat.
Thanks Chuck!
Heath
As a regular V mount owner I'm very pleased with mine. The first trip I took with his v mount installed I had a buddy following me with a stock mount IC. At the first gas station we stopped at we bothed popped our hoods. Mine was cold to the touch and his you could fry an egg on. I've bought a few other things from Chuck and I've yet to be unhappy. The times I've talked to him on the phone and through PM's, he's always been more than helpful to me. Most of the time people just want to get your order and then get off the phone quick. Chuck, on the other hand, took the time to talk. Even after we finished the deal at hand, he took the time to talk about some of my past purchases and stuff that I was thinking about buying in the future.
The last thing I want is to step into an internet pissing match, but I did want to state that I was very happy and would buy the set up again in a heart beat.
Thanks Chuck!
Heath
09-24-05, 07:46 PM
#173
Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AL
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All right, so Kevin talks of people defending a product they've bought to "save face" per se. I haven't bought either, haven't even gotten to the point where it's time to consider what kind of intercooler I should get, so I'm a neutral party. From what I've seen, Chuck is just tired of having someone constantly hound him just because Chuck has a different intercooler setup that has no way of making Kevin any money. Whether it's some kind of inferiority complex or fear of competition, Kevin's obviously in the wrong for being on Chuck's back all the time. Now if Chuck had come into a thread where Kevin was trying to talk about the advantages of his intercooler design and started calling BS and pushing his own, maybe I could understand Kevin's position. But, it seems to have worked the other way around and Chuck is justifiably angry about it. Oh, and do yourselves a favor and stop messing around about peoples' usage of the English language, it just makes it look like your argument against Chuck stems from some sort of racism.
09-24-05, 09:38 PM
#174
Originally Posted by TT_Rex_7
It's unfortunate that the new crowds can't take positive criticism, along with getting the **** out of their ears, and listen up.
-Alex
-Alex
09-24-05, 09:51 PM
#175
Rotary Enthusiast
i have never owned and asp or m2 intercooler.... but i did own a ducted greddy smic and sr horizontal mount intercooler..... and the intake temps are far supoerior with the v mount.
about heatsoak.... with the three enginebay mounted intercooler, the v mount was the only one i could touch after a hard drive. actually, it convinced a couple of FMIC guys to consider switching over to Vmount after that incident.... and i didnt even mention anything except that they saw me leaning on my intercooler with my hand while checking something in my enginebay.
seriously... you dont need to know physics to know that the V mount is the optimal configuration. actually its just common sense. i see kevin keeps putting conditions when implying that the tests have nothing to prove " as long as its sealed", third party testing, etc. bottom line is, v mount will do better than a smic even when its unducted. i know this because i was running my intercooler unducted for a year after it was installed and was getting 36C on 100+F days, and my water temps would stay at 85-86C according to my pfc(my fans were set for 86C btw), when i ducted just my radiator, on 100F days i would still get 36C (which is probably as low as you can get anyway). and 85-86 deg water temps, but now i have my fans set at 88C (my maps were changed when tuned).
now, for the copying part of this thread...... how can someone say that chuck made exact replicas of other kits? its not like you can make them look any different. (unless you're hedghog) the concept limits the variety of appearances due to the fact that they are V mounts. its an intercooler and a radiator..... can you get any more simpler than that. kinda like comparing downpipes from pettit, m2, sr, mazdatrix... etc.... of course they will all look the same, they're all downpipes!!! (excpt for hks ... from what i know). another defense for chuck, on his original v mount is...... he offers 2 different types of V mounts, and i personally know someone with a prototype for a core bigger than mine that never made the market. if he's copying, what use are prototypes when all you have to do is copy?
about heatsoak.... with the three enginebay mounted intercooler, the v mount was the only one i could touch after a hard drive. actually, it convinced a couple of FMIC guys to consider switching over to Vmount after that incident.... and i didnt even mention anything except that they saw me leaning on my intercooler with my hand while checking something in my enginebay.
seriously... you dont need to know physics to know that the V mount is the optimal configuration. actually its just common sense. i see kevin keeps putting conditions when implying that the tests have nothing to prove " as long as its sealed", third party testing, etc. bottom line is, v mount will do better than a smic even when its unducted. i know this because i was running my intercooler unducted for a year after it was installed and was getting 36C on 100+F days, and my water temps would stay at 85-86C according to my pfc(my fans were set for 86C btw), when i ducted just my radiator, on 100F days i would still get 36C (which is probably as low as you can get anyway). and 85-86 deg water temps, but now i have my fans set at 88C (my maps were changed when tuned).
now, for the copying part of this thread...... how can someone say that chuck made exact replicas of other kits? its not like you can make them look any different. (unless you're hedghog) the concept limits the variety of appearances due to the fact that they are V mounts. its an intercooler and a radiator..... can you get any more simpler than that. kinda like comparing downpipes from pettit, m2, sr, mazdatrix... etc.... of course they will all look the same, they're all downpipes!!! (excpt for hks ... from what i know). another defense for chuck, on his original v mount is...... he offers 2 different types of V mounts, and i personally know someone with a prototype for a core bigger than mine that never made the market. if he's copying, what use are prototypes when all you have to do is copy?