rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

I was speaking of other customer results from switching to your VMIC, not the upcoming test.

The main difference is the intake temp. Not water temp. It's drastically enough to measure. 10-20C differnece depending on which SMIC with the same ambient temp.


Yes, I read it all. The whole point was keep this between you and him, and go public with the results, not the battle. Either way, as long as you keep the testing out of your hands, along with Kevins, most should beleive the results. There's nothing else you can do past that point. However, no matter what you do, there's still going to be people that won't beleive. Your test isn't going to change that.

Yes, there will be unbelievers no matter what. Just as HedgeHog suggested, "don't try to please 100% of the customers because you can't." I don't know how I can keep it between him and me when he constantly flamed me in public.

Just because you don't keep completed setups in stock, doesn't mean you don't have all the supplies to make them in stock. Either way, I said to neglect my comment if you was in fact not closing up shop. However, you chose not to.

I will be here for another 6-9 months. Yes, it takes that long to sell it. I am doing this not because I am selling the shop. The buyer needs to buy the whole business with inventory so how much inventory I have left will not be any issue.


Again, I stated to neglect the comment being made if you going out of business isn't true.

I am not going out of business. Selling it is my personal decision which has nothing to do with the capital gain of the company.

Either way, I stated what I felt it looked like. Wether what I said is true or not doesn't matter. Were all entitled to our oppinion based off your current actions. I havn't been the only one to comment on what I beleive your real plan is.

Oh well, people pass on judgements too early.

If you would have kept this personal, and not gone public like this, just about everone that commented on what they beleive your true plan is wouldn't have said a word. By keeping it between you and Kevin, and you posting the results, it would have simply looked like tested data. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't know how I can do this with Kevin privately with his grudge against me.


I didn't pass judgement. I didn't say you are an evil person or anything. Hell, I even stated that i'm sure your a nice guy. That doesn't hide the fact that many nice men have done bad schemes. Wether you wan't to beleive I misunderstood you going out of business or not is up to you. Your only hurting yourself with this thread Chuck.

Thanks for your concern. There is one thing that can make me stop but I do not think the other person is going to be up to it.


-Alex[/QUOTE]

TT_Rex_7

As much as I don't like the actions you've taken here, i'm interested in something that i'll PM you about. It'd be hard to get with you selling the company. Either way, it seems, at the moment, that your intentions are good.

I hope your decision to sell the company brings you whatever your looking for, and I wish you the best.

As far as your other option, i'm going to go out on a limb here, and say you'd stop if he apologized, or something along those lines?

-Alex

AgentSpeed

I didn't take time to read all this but I think from skimming the first page it is a good idea.

As a regular V mount owner I'm very pleased with mine. The first trip I took with his v mount installed I had a buddy following me with a stock mount IC. At the first gas station we stopped at we bothed popped our hoods. Mine was cold to the touch and his you could fry an egg on. I've bought a few other things from Chuck and I've yet to be unhappy. The times I've talked to him on the phone and through PM's, he's always been more than helpful to me. Most of the time people just want to get your order and then get off the phone quick. Chuck, on the other hand, took the time to talk. Even after we finished the deal at hand, he took the time to talk about some of my past purchases and stuff that I was thinking about buying in the future.

The last thing I want is to step into an internet pissing match, but I did want to state that I was very happy and would buy the set up again in a heart beat.
Thanks Chuck!
Heath

TT_Rex_7

Not to add to the pissing match or anything, but... http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/i...olers.html#ASP

There's quite a few reviews on the ASP intercooler, and it staying cool, etc. on track days. Several people also list what kind of temps they are getting on track days.

-Alex

Edit: Directly from the site listed above.

Testing Conditions:

Ambient 63-65F
Boost level: 12psi @ sea level
Output level: ~300rwhp


- --Medium IC--

Intake T at 50mph cruise: 67F
Peak intake T in 3rd gear WOT run: 98F
Peak intake T in WOT 0-80mph run: 105F
Maximum pressure loss: 1.1psi


- --Large IC--

Intake T at 50mph cruise: 70F
Peak intake T in 3rd gear WOT run: 92F
Peak intake T in WOT 0-80mph run: 99F
Maximum pressure loss: 1.1psi

Test was done on the same car, with the old style medium, and new style large.

That's a rough estimate on what your VMIC will have to beat. From the search i've done on your VMIC, most list temps at ~ the same level. Some stated higher, some stated lower. However, your test should rid the diffrent variables.

sonix7

Chuck I have never met you before, but I can see you are a stand up guy. I respect you for answering everyones questions and backing your product with PROOF. I like that. I want you to know that I was not including you when I said bashing other intercoolers, that was more the other guy. especially since you don't even do the type of intercoolers that I bought. I will admit, if I didn't still have the cpu,fuel,and exhaust to do I would love to have your setup, its been my favorite for some time, I just didn't see the real worth when the opportunity to get the one I got, which is good for now. I await the results cause I am sure you have put a lot of work into your setup, no matter where you got the inspiration. PROVE it so we will all know.
-Jason

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Statements like these keep adding fuel to the fire...

I've tracked a car with a PFS IC and had the hot side so hot that it would burn your hand (SMIC, VMIC, FMIC will be no different on the hot side with the hand test), the cold side was warm but not hot. The PFS IC is the smallest SMIC. At cruise neither IC will have an advantage, turbos aren't making boost, not much air is flowing through the IC.

Did you grab the wrong side of the IC? Were you running the same level of boost? Was he boosting right before he stopped and you weren't? Your observations tell me something wasn't the same.


Actually it looks like you did want to step in the middle.

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

All I can say is that we all should just wait for the results rather than keep bickering on this thread, I support chuck 110%, he has helped me a whole lot, and about the IC's both work great, the one advantage that I see that the v-mount has over a SMIC no matter who makes it is the fact that it will recover from heat soaking a lot quicker than any SMIC.

Mind you this is all Chuck's work and I love it...PEACE....

AgentSpeed

If I wanted to really get in deep I would have read through all nine pages and added my remarks along the way. Point is I don't care what most people think is the best setup, I have other things more important than worring about if I bought the wrong IC. I just stated my opinion because it's like my a-hole, everybody's got one.

But to clarify:
We were both just cruising, no boost. Maybe mine had less obstructions since the air wasn't going through the rad first, but I do know that when I layed my hand in the middle of mine it was cool. I layed my hand in the middle of both IC's. I could stand over my engine bay and not get smothered from heat, his was a different story. Mods and boost levels were almost the same, difference being IC setups. He was sold on the v mount idea then.
At last years Tail of the Dragon I also talked with others that were pleased with the results of my setup. It performed very well after multiple runs up and down deal's gap. It flat out works.
Bottom line, I bought what I liked best with respect to function, looks, and price. Everybody needs to make their own mind up when they weigh out what matters to them the most.
Looks like I might need to read this thing after all, looks like feelings might be on the edge around here...

TT_Rex_7

Your just adding to the bickering by your comment below. You made a comment, without adding any sort of data to back it up.

Can you explain how you've come to this conclusion? I'm just not seeing how a VMIC will recover from heat soak substantially quicker.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

Bingo! No matter what this test proves, this same principle is still going to apply. The diffrence in temps. will have to be dramatic for people to sway from one to the other. In all the tests that i've seen between diffrent setups, (FMIC, SMIC, etc.) i've never seen a 10-20C (50-100F) diffrence. It'll require a diffrence this large to sway people to a diffrent setup. Unless there's a diffrence of 10-20C, people will stick with what they have.

-Alex

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

A LITTLE HISTORY FOR YOU YOUNG PUPS:

Kevin always had a hard-on for Chuck b/c Kevin was too stupid to patent his design. For some reasons, Kevin thought it was unethical for Chuck to copy Kevin's design. Too damn bad. The US Supreme court about 100 years ago said it was fine to do so if the owner was too stupid to take advantage of patent or trademark law. The funny thing in all this was that it looked like Kevin stole the idea from Peter Farrell race intercooler design. And then Kevin sold the whole deal to M2 and M2 allegedly ripped Kevin off. Kevin must have hit on hard times b/c he's now back peddling his design.

I bought my car in '95, met Kevin back in '95 during One Lap. He was making half-assed downpipes and headlights back then but decided to elevate himself to be the grand old man of RX7, next to Jim LaPrick. BTW, I still have M2 Large and Jim's POS bushings so I speak from experience as a former customer of both.

sicminded

well, i'm not going to read through 9 pages, but i kinda get where it's going.

just another person wanting to say that i had a large smic setup, and now have the vmount. though i don't have any physical data or proof, on my car i saw lower intake temps and faster recovery from heat soak.

before


after


late,
chris

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

The only proof I have is that a friend on mine with the board name of SkywarpR, here on the forum who has a large SMIC, we left a meet at treasure island at the same time, I had at that time the medium v-mount set up, we both were heatsoaked while the car was parked, as soon as we left treasure Island we were both at 46c, he beeped me with the nextel to ask what my temp was within about 30 seconds of driving the car, I was at about 36c and he was still at 40c, I dropped down to 28c and he was just at 36c within about 2 minutes on the freeway, I did not even have the ducting on the left side at that time.

The way I see it as far as reason why it recovers faster is the fact that it get more direct airflow since there is nothing blocking the path like a duct. Mind you this is only how I see it and I am not saying that this is the main reason why.

I am no expert but this is what we saw.....

One thing that I noticed is that people who have never seen or experienced a v-mount set up always doubt it's performance, this could be also due to price, but the RE setup is cheaper than every v-mount set up out there, KS is like $3000.00 and HKS is like $2100 without a radiator.

Almost every single person that has seen it and experienced it would never go back to any setup, I got about 3 of my friend to convert from either a SMIC or a FMIC and they dont regret the extra cash that they had to save up for it, as far as I know they love it and would never look back...

I did not post to argue, I just posted to show how much I am pleased with the v-mount setup, I spent a lot of money on it and it was worth every penny.

cmartinp28

alex.... dont be quick to ask people data because i read through the whole thread and you have not once offered concrete data inspite of all your posts.

BlueRex

Anybody else catch this conversion mistake? 10-20C = (18-36F)

Spirit_Rotary_7

Temperature (in Fahrenheit) = Temperature (in Celsius) X (9 degrees Fahrenheit / 5 degrees Celsius) + 32 degrees Fahrenheit

The real numbers are 10-20C = 50-68F

YayeR

kekke.

Well, I'm already tired of trolling this thread. I'm probably one of the few who's read through the whole shebang and I can't say I've learned anything at all, let alone any modicum of information to support any attack or discredit to Rotary Extreme's V-mount setups.

After plenty of consideration, I've decided to purchase one of their Monster V-Mount intercoolers for my single turbo setup. I won't be afraid to post my impressions, but don't be surprised if I am satisfied with it (that's not to say I won't properly duct and fit the intercooler as I see fit). I haven't read one single post from a V-mount owner who is dissatisfied with his (edit: or her) purchase.

BlueRex

In being consistant with the context, he was referencing a temp difference not stating the intake temps were at 10-20C. Thus the temp difference of 10-20C = 18-36F

saxyman990

Chuck,

First, thanks for the civilized response to my post. I honestly didn't expect that. Although, I haven't read every post on this thread (not worth my time to read such mindless dribble), it seems that you may have finally calmed down. Maybe we're getting somewhere.

I've been around the rotary community for much longer than my join-date and post count indicate. I know the history as well as anyone here (with the obvious and noteable exception of Kevin and yourself). I am extremely interested in the V-mount idea (and I have been even before you started producing them). Therefore, I have read and re-read EVERY single thread on the RX-7Club (not to mention the big list, and "other" various rotary forums) pertaining to VMIC, and Kevin's SMIC; including many threads that did not originally focus on those topics, but were highjacked or otherwise diverted. I honestly think your VMIC is a great product, and I'm still interested in seeing some test results (I have been for many years now). But due to the way things have gone down recently, I'd never be willing to purchase one from you.

Again, I have no problem with the products that you sell and create (although, I do have an open mind, and I can understand why some do). What I have a problem with is your attitude and the methods you're using to deal with these situations. I expected more from you Chuck, much more.

The above quote is absolutely great advice, and probably one of the few posts that you've made recently that I agree with. You need to read it again, and listen to it. Otherwise, you're just another babbling hipocritical idiot like so many other people. And FYI, I truely AM concerned. The RX-7 aftermaket is going down the tubes, and situations like this are NOT helping. Your actions have forced me to sever one more tie, and further decrease the dwindling support that I already have for my hobby/passion.

God speed,
-Rob

saxyman990

Ramy, thanks for your concern. As I mentioned to Chuck in my post above, my perspective is NOT limited. I've been around this drama for quite some time and I've read/reread all threads pertaining to the subject. I understand the history and background quite well. I never said that Chuck is the only guilty party, as I definitely have some issues with the way Kevin has been handling things too. I was hoping that Chuck was the better man, and I expected much more of him. He proved me wrong.

I work as an engineer in the government. You better believe that I deal with the same type of sh~t every single day that I go to work. I understand as well as anyone how frustrating situations like this can be. But in my line of work, actions similar to Chuck's are not an option. I don't feel they should be in the civilian world either. As an engineer, I'm trained to cut my losses and find an alternate solution once I deem a situation to be beyond repair. That's exactly what I've done here: I grabbed the yellow handle and punched-out.

As far as the PM goes, you're probably right. That's what I had originally planned to do. But he pissed me off so much, that I felt everyone on the forum had a right to understand what I did and why. I'm not expecting anyone else on this forum to agree with me (actually, I expect quite the opposite), and I will never hold that against anyone. What I did was my personal decision. It'll probably end up hurting me in the long run, as I'm sure I've also ticked off some great forum contributors (like youself). The fact that I am willing to loose great forum members as friends/contacts over this should explain to you just how mad I am.

Again, thanks for your concern.

-Rob

TT_Rex_7

I don't think you caught my point. I stated that he was adding to the bickering by not including any data. I never said I wasn't adding to the bickering, he did.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

Actually, it's 50-68F. I used google, and it said 10c = 50f, so I just figured 20c = 100f.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

If I understood correctly, Chuck was stating that he'll see intake temps 10-20C LOWER than what Kevins SMIC will get. In other words, lets say Kevins SMIC is getting ~200F on the track. Chuck is claiming that his VMIC will be at ~132-150F. As I stated before, i've never seen that large of a diffrence between various diffrent setups.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

If what i've stated above doesn't add up, then i'd like to hear your opinion on my comments.

-Alex

BlueRex

This is the last time I'm going to explain this.

A temperature DIFFERENCE of 10-20 degrees celsius is equal to a temperature DIFFERENCE of 18-36 degrees fahrenheit. If you were stating that the temps were at 10-20C then it would have been equivalent to the temps being at 50-68F, but you were stating a temperature DIFFERENCE. When going from celsius to fahrenheit you have to correct for the freezing point (0C or -32F).