tuned RX7 running low power
05-12-17, 10:18 AM
#26
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So you have the second ones listed here, with slightly larger compressor wheels:
RX7.COM | 93-95 Rx7 Turbo
You're definitely down on power, but I doubt anyone is intentionally 'taking you to the cleaners.'
FDs are just pretty damn complicated cars for non-specialty tuning shops. One that's not stock and OEM will have more issues commensurate with the number of mods installed, especially those installed in a haphazard fashion.
RX7.COM | 93-95 Rx7 Turbo
You're definitely down on power, but I doubt anyone is intentionally 'taking you to the cleaners.'
FDs are just pretty damn complicated cars for non-specialty tuning shops. One that's not stock and OEM will have more issues commensurate with the number of mods installed, especially those installed in a haphazard fashion.
and this was on the suggestion of the tuner.
05-12-17, 10:37 AM
#27
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Agreed on the cat 
I'm not sure where this '3mm seals make lower compression' thing started...... I think it's from ignorant (or dishonest) sellers trying to foist off their poorly built engines on an unsuspecting populace, personally.
3mm seals do have a single spring behind them, but many (like 30) years ago the FB GSL-SE (which ran these seals from the factory) made great compression, comparable to their 2mm variety cousins. There is no change in Mazda compression spec for thickness of apex seals that I'm aware of
Now, on an FD with 13B-REW rotors and 2mm slots that haven't been milled 100% correctly on center for the 3mm seals.....that may be one cause for the poor sealing.
P.S. also in agreement that your FMIC is just fine for two tiny turbos pushing a near-stock 12 psi boost. Anyone telling you that that's your problem..... well, I question their judgement
I'm not sure where this '3mm seals make lower compression' thing started...... I think it's from ignorant (or dishonest) sellers trying to foist off their poorly built engines on an unsuspecting populace, personally.
3mm seals do have a single spring behind them, but many (like 30) years ago the FB GSL-SE (which ran these seals from the factory) made great compression, comparable to their 2mm variety cousins. There is no change in Mazda compression spec for thickness of apex seals that I'm aware of
Now, on an FD with 13B-REW rotors and 2mm slots that haven't been milled 100% correctly on center for the 3mm seals.....that may be one cause for the poor sealing.
P.S. also in agreement that your FMIC is just fine for two tiny turbos pushing a near-stock 12 psi boost. Anyone telling you that that's your problem..... well, I question their judgement
The only other insight I can give is, upon driving it more if I am in 2nd gear and at about 2200 - 2500 RPMS and I apply wide open throttle, the vehicle bogs down, rpms drop slightly, then it weakly climes to about 3500 RPMS before getting any real power or acceleration, feels like I up-shifted to a higher gear. same thing happens in 1st or 3rd gear.
05-12-17, 10:46 AM
#28
I am not seeing any turbo transition. Are you running non-sequential? If you are running sequential, the boost controller is set up incorrectly or there is a solenoid/vacuum line issue.
With your mods, I would have just used the PFC to control boost.
Based off your vehicle speed on the dyno chart it looks like a 3rd gear pull.
With your mods, I would have just used the PFC to control boost.
Based off your vehicle speed on the dyno chart it looks like a 3rd gear pull.
05-12-17, 11:12 AM
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I am not seeing any turbo transition. Are you running non-sequential? If you are running sequential, the boost controller is set up incorrectly or there is a solenoid/vacuum line issue.
With your mods, I would have just used the PFC to control boost.
Based off your vehicle speed on the dyno chart it looks like a 3rd gear pull.
With your mods, I would have just used the PFC to control boost.
Based off your vehicle speed on the dyno chart it looks like a 3rd gear pull.
It was a 3rd gear pull, should I have the shop remove the boost controller and tell them to control boost from the power FC ECU itself?
05-12-17, 11:18 AM
#30
Sounds like the shop does not know what they are doing.
It just takes a quick look at the dyno sheet to see that the primary turbo is not coming on. Could be a vacuum routing issue venting all the primary boost through the charge relief until after transition. Could also be improperly connected TCA, there are a lot of "could be's".
Regardless, whoever is doing the work is not familiar with the workings of the sequential turbo system, so telling them anything is kind of pointless.
It just takes a quick look at the dyno sheet to see that the primary turbo is not coming on. Could be a vacuum routing issue venting all the primary boost through the charge relief until after transition. Could also be improperly connected TCA, there are a lot of "could be's".
Regardless, whoever is doing the work is not familiar with the workings of the sequential turbo system, so telling them anything is kind of pointless.
05-12-17, 11:33 AM
#31
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Sounds like the shop does not know what they are doing.
It just takes a quick look at the dyno sheet to see that the primary turbo is not coming on. Could be a vacuum routing issue venting all the primary boost through the charge relief until after transition. Could also be improperly connected TCA, there are a lot of "could be's".
Regardless, whoever is doing the work is not familiar with the workings of the sequential turbo system, so telling them anything is kind of pointless.
It just takes a quick look at the dyno sheet to see that the primary turbo is not coming on. Could be a vacuum routing issue venting all the primary boost through the charge relief until after transition. Could also be improperly connected TCA, there are a lot of "could be's".
Regardless, whoever is doing the work is not familiar with the workings of the sequential turbo system, so telling them anything is kind of pointless.
I am open to other options, but I am no master tech and do not feel comfortable taking on this build on my skill level.
thank you for the insight and help
05-12-17, 11:53 AM
#32
If there is a warranty on labor, tell them to fix the problem. It is up to them to bring in someone that knows how to get the car running properly.
Post up a dyno run that shows boost in 4th gear.
There is no good reason that your car is not making 300+ rwhp
Dyno Comparison For Each Part Added https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Post up a dyno run that shows boost in 4th gear.
There is no good reason that your car is not making 300+ rwhp
Dyno Comparison For Each Part Added https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 05-12-17 at 11:56 AM.
05-12-17, 12:10 PM
#33
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There is absolutely something not right. That setup should make at minimum 300hp. I just dyno tuned my car for MBT at 12psi on 93 spec turbos with only an intake and full exhaust and it made 290hp. Something either isn't hooked up right, leaking, or there is a restriction somewhere. It sounds like it would be a good idea to triple check your vacuum lines and possibly check your cat if it has loads of miles on it. Good luck with finding out what's wrong!
05-12-17, 01:25 PM
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If there is a warranty on labor, tell them to fix the problem. It is up to them to bring in someone that knows how to get the car running properly.
Post up a dyno run that shows boost in 4th gear.
There is no good reason that your car is not making 300+ rwhp
Dyno Comparison For Each Part Added https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Post up a dyno run that shows boost in 4th gear.
There is no good reason that your car is not making 300+ rwhp
Dyno Comparison For Each Part Added https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
I will also get them to do a 4th gear pull that shows boost so I can post it here.
thank you
06-07-17, 11:57 AM
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UPDATE : LOW power RX7 with PFC
Currently the vehicle is at a holding point.
It made 260-WHP and the primary turbo now comes on and spools quick at low RPMs
However, the tuner has informed me that as power was added the engine became a bit noisy, and there was a little knock, I was told that because the old twin turbo had the rear seal blown, I could have caused scaring damage to the motor, due to lack of oil pressure. I will get the compression numbers but all rotors were within spec according to the tech.
The vehicle seems to drive and perform normally, I have only had it back for about 3 days. but of course is still down on power. It is currently at 12 psi and the tuner has told me it doesn't match what he has tuned on other FDs. But, that the motor just doesn't want to push more power out.
So at this point I am not sure what the next step should be, any help would be great.
!HELP!
Thank you in advance
-
GN
It made 260-WHP and the primary turbo now comes on and spools quick at low RPMs
However, the tuner has informed me that as power was added the engine became a bit noisy, and there was a little knock, I was told that because the old twin turbo had the rear seal blown, I could have caused scaring damage to the motor, due to lack of oil pressure. I will get the compression numbers but all rotors were within spec according to the tech.
The vehicle seems to drive and perform normally, I have only had it back for about 3 days. but of course is still down on power. It is currently at 12 psi and the tuner has told me it doesn't match what he has tuned on other FDs. But, that the motor just doesn't want to push more power out.
So at this point I am not sure what the next step should be, any help would be great.
!HELP!
Thank you in advance
-
GN
06-08-17, 11:51 AM
#46
In reference to each other i.e. FMIC vs SMIC vs Vmount
FMIC = Lower AIT's, higher coolant temps
SMIC = Lower coolant temps, higher AIT's
Vmount = Best of both worlds. Low AIT's and low coolant temps. Note - Not better AIT's than a FMIC and not better coolant temps than a SMIC. So if you are having AIT issues with a FMIC, a Vmount will NOT fix your problem (since a FMIC is designed to achieve low AIT's).
What work did they perform exactly?
Last edited by Montego; 06-08-17 at 11:54 AM.
06-15-17, 11:55 AM
#48
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Recap of all info and data so far
Hello again all,
I have collected all of the info I have thus far into a single post to RECAP what has been done and where the car is currently at. I know there are graphs that are needed and I am actively trying to get these, as well as get information from the tuner and tech at Intec Racing(the shop working on it) between my work / travel schedule.
{ THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE }
I have 94 RX7 that at first was tuned on 12 PSI, It made 252 hp to the wheels which seems low. The turbos are 99 SP spec Twin Turbos, the vehicle runs an Apex-i Boost controller and ECU and all the necessary bolt on upgrades like exhaust and intake.
The tuner is well known, Shop is Intec Racing. The vehicle seems to drive normal when you are not asking much of it, starts and idles normally, no jumping idle, revs through the RPM band smoothly(but with what seems low power/boost) and the boost controller seems to show even boost on the digital read out from the Apex-I boost control system, however it is low.
I took the car back to the shop and they went over the work they performed and tried to tune it once again.
*Originally they replaced all my vacuum lines, replaced my twin turbo system and all oil lines(including the OMP lines and oil injectors) they installed the Power FC and Apex-I Boost controller, replaced all tune-up components and belts, cleaned injectors and injector rail.*
Continued work:
They inspected and adjusted vacuum lines and said they found some that were incorrectly installed, but that everything should be fine now, they ran the vehicle on the dyno and it made 260 at 14psi, currently I have driven the car around and found at 4K RPM I am at .61 bar and by 5k RPM I am at .72 bar. Around 6500 RPM my boost spikes to 1 bar, but by 7600K it doesn’t want to hold the boost and seems to drop pressure slightly then brings it back up, then slightly drops pressure again and brings it back up. This is when I was told by the tuner that the vehicle was getting high knock reads and the motor didn’t seem to want to push anymore power. I was told that because the old twin turbos had the rear seal blown and misting oil out of it, I could have caused scaring damage to the motor, due to lack of oil pressure.
I have not been able to get a new boost dyno graph/ power graph/ AFR reading or compression numbers from the shop. However, I have made arrangements to drop the vehicle off once again to receive the information I (and everyone on the forum) have been asking for
I am currently about $10,000 in at this shop parts and labor
List of upgrades:
Hurley 3mm ceramic apex seals
99 spec SP twin turbos
efini Y-pipe
Racing beat down pipe and full exhaust
high flow cat
pettit racing turbo intake elbows
apex-i intake
Apex Power FC ECU
Apex Boost controller
FMIC
Koyo triple radiator
Competition Fuel Rail
•Bosch 1680cc injectors x2
•Fuel Pressure Regulator
* Walbro fuel pump
(FMIC is from the RX7 store, their (Greddy M spec) style FMIC)
Being tuned on:
Dyno Jet 2 wheel dyno
Any advice would be great, at this point I am worried I will just have to park the car for a long while till I can send it across country to a renowned Rotary shop and have them do a full project build. I have been working on trying to get this car up and running for 5 years now, this is the second shop to try and tune it. The First one was TrackForged(Out of biz and not responding to phone calls) in Portland Oregon, who blew my BNR supercar STG 3 twin turbos rear seal and REMOVED OR CUT MY CHECK ENGINE LIGHT BULB/WIRE! It currently doesn’t light up when you turn the car to accessories mode and all lights on the dash light up. (Not sure how to fix this)
Help, Prayers, Guidance all needed.
Thank You
I have collected all of the info I have thus far into a single post to RECAP what has been done and where the car is currently at. I know there are graphs that are needed and I am actively trying to get these, as well as get information from the tuner and tech at Intec Racing(the shop working on it) between my work / travel schedule.
{ THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE }
I have 94 RX7 that at first was tuned on 12 PSI, It made 252 hp to the wheels which seems low. The turbos are 99 SP spec Twin Turbos, the vehicle runs an Apex-i Boost controller and ECU and all the necessary bolt on upgrades like exhaust and intake.
The tuner is well known, Shop is Intec Racing. The vehicle seems to drive normal when you are not asking much of it, starts and idles normally, no jumping idle, revs through the RPM band smoothly(but with what seems low power/boost) and the boost controller seems to show even boost on the digital read out from the Apex-I boost control system, however it is low.
I took the car back to the shop and they went over the work they performed and tried to tune it once again.
*Originally they replaced all my vacuum lines, replaced my twin turbo system and all oil lines(including the OMP lines and oil injectors) they installed the Power FC and Apex-I Boost controller, replaced all tune-up components and belts, cleaned injectors and injector rail.*
Continued work:
They inspected and adjusted vacuum lines and said they found some that were incorrectly installed, but that everything should be fine now, they ran the vehicle on the dyno and it made 260 at 14psi, currently I have driven the car around and found at 4K RPM I am at .61 bar and by 5k RPM I am at .72 bar. Around 6500 RPM my boost spikes to 1 bar, but by 7600K it doesn’t want to hold the boost and seems to drop pressure slightly then brings it back up, then slightly drops pressure again and brings it back up. This is when I was told by the tuner that the vehicle was getting high knock reads and the motor didn’t seem to want to push anymore power. I was told that because the old twin turbos had the rear seal blown and misting oil out of it, I could have caused scaring damage to the motor, due to lack of oil pressure.
I have not been able to get a new boost dyno graph/ power graph/ AFR reading or compression numbers from the shop. However, I have made arrangements to drop the vehicle off once again to receive the information I (and everyone on the forum) have been asking for
I am currently about $10,000 in at this shop parts and labor
List of upgrades:
Hurley 3mm ceramic apex seals
99 spec SP twin turbos
efini Y-pipe
Racing beat down pipe and full exhaust
high flow cat
pettit racing turbo intake elbows
apex-i intake
Apex Power FC ECU
Apex Boost controller
FMIC
Koyo triple radiator
Competition Fuel Rail
•Bosch 1680cc injectors x2
•Fuel Pressure Regulator
* Walbro fuel pump
(FMIC is from the RX7 store, their (Greddy M spec) style FMIC)
Being tuned on:
Dyno Jet 2 wheel dyno
Any advice would be great, at this point I am worried I will just have to park the car for a long while till I can send it across country to a renowned Rotary shop and have them do a full project build. I have been working on trying to get this car up and running for 5 years now, this is the second shop to try and tune it. The First one was TrackForged(Out of biz and not responding to phone calls) in Portland Oregon, who blew my BNR supercar STG 3 twin turbos rear seal and REMOVED OR CUT MY CHECK ENGINE LIGHT BULB/WIRE! It currently doesn’t light up when you turn the car to accessories mode and all lights on the dash light up. (Not sure how to fix this)
Help, Prayers, Guidance all needed.
Thank You
06-15-17, 12:11 PM
#50
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"Mid pipe was pulled off and high flow cat verified not clogged"
"Was told that the compression test showed all within spec (was not given numbers on paper or anything)
-Side Note-
I will be getting Pics of all compression numbers and post them as soon as I get them from the shop next week when I drop it back off 6/26.