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Sounds eerily similar to my situation last year. See this thread:
Cliff notes are bad ignition coil harness wires, then a shorted ignition coil (not detailed in the thread) from the bad wire, then restricted fuel lines and possibly clogged injectors from a bypassed fuel filter.
I don't see where you have verified with your eyes that you have spark. You should make a video of your spark plugs firing out of the engine. Ground the body.
Plugs can foul and send voltage down the ceramic insulator instead of across the air gap in the combustion chamber. They will still trigger a timing light if they foul like this. It has happened to me before. Engine was impossible to start and ran like **** when it finally did.
Fixing grounds is definitely the next thing to do. Your idea of double checking the spark is a good idea. I will try that!
Originally Posted by teebeekay
Sounds eerily similar to my situation last year. See this thread:
Cliff notes are bad ignition coil harness wires, then a shorted ignition coil (not detailed in the thread) from the bad wire, then restricted fuel lines and possibly clogged injectors from a bypassed fuel filter.
New Genuine fuel pump Walbro 450 LPH installed and tested.
New battery.
Tow start tried at 15 mph - didn't work.
NE and G CAS connectors at the correct location.
Starting fluid tried - a few explosions for a few seconds, then nothing.
12V on each injector: success. They click.
Pumped old gas out, pumped new gas in (without 2-stroke oil).
Map sensor voltage tested and within OEM specs.
Ground at the PFC tested.
I am missing the UIM to firewall ground, I will order one monday. I will try to take a video of the spark on each spark plug. Are there 2 grounds at the ECU? I see 2 wires going to the same ground terminal and that's about it.
Okay! Spark definitely seems strong. Same result on all 4 wires.
Spark between the center electrode and the shock stud looks great. Unfortunately that doesn't rule out fouled plugs or a voltage leak path bypassing the air gap.
You need to ground the threaded body and watch for spark at the gap where it would normally be when installed. Or just put in brand new plugs.
Wow that video sounds like it REALLY wants to start. I think you're getting close!
If you keep cranking on it will it just stop trying to fire? Don't be afraid to keep on the starter, I've cranked engines for 30 seconds easy trying to get them to start. Just be sure you've got a good charged up battery that can keep cranking.
Also pump the gas pedal as you're trying to start, giving it some air can help.
Spark between the center electrode and the shock stud looks great. Unfortunately that doesn't rule out fouled plugs or a voltage leak path bypassing the air gap.
You need to ground the threaded body and watch for spark at the gap where it would normally be when installed. Or just put in brand new plugs.
I will buy another set of new plugs, thanks for the idea. Endless money pit at its best!
Originally Posted by DaleClark
Wow that video sounds like it REALLY wants to start. I think you're getting close!
If you keep cranking on it will it just stop trying to fire? Don't be afraid to keep on the starter, I've cranked engines for 30 seconds easy trying to get them to start. Just be sure you've got a good charged up battery that can keep cranking.
Also pump the gas pedal as you're trying to start, giving it some air can help.
Dale
I'm pumping the gas pedal in the video, I cannot keep cranking for too long, I keep blowing the 200A fuse that goes to the positive cable (battery has been relocated in the trunk). It seems to be worst since I switched this ground from the firewall to the UIM!
Okay, I finally received my PFC Commander 2 months later, straight from Japan! I'm not really sure what to do with it though! Here is the current recap.
Car unflooded multiple times.
Compression tested
Coil packs tested.
Spark plug wires tested.
New spark plugs 4 x BUR9EQP.
New Genuine fuel pump Walbro 450 LPH installed and tested.
New battery.
Tow start tried at 15 mph - didn't work.
NE and G CAS connectors at the correct location.
Starting fluid tried - a few explosions for a few seconds, then nothing.
12V on each injector: success. They click and work properly (I physically saw gas coming out of them).
Pumped old gas out, pumped new gas in (without 2-stroke oil).
Map sensor voltage tested and within OEM specs.
Ground at the PFC tested.
UIM to firewall ground tested.
Thanks for your help guys... I really appreciate it!
get your numbers to reflect the values in that range.
also, your water temp sensor isnt working or the incorrect plug is in it. i dont think your motor is sitting at a chilly -30C. i believe this to be the reason why your car isnt starting. the cranking enrichment and other values for that temperature would more than likely keep the motor from starting. its pretty easy to mix up the fuel temp sensor with the water temp sensor. for whatever reason, they reach and can be swapped around
Well, you were right on that! I swapped both green connectors, water temperature now shows roughly the same as the air temperature (4°C).
200A fuse keeps blowing and the Commander shows a maximum of 170 RPM while cranking the engine, with the battery fully charged. It sounds a bit low. Pretty much all grounds have been verified. I've been cranking over and over for a LONG time now (I'm too patient), could the starter be dead? What kind of RPM you guys get when you crank the engine?
Originally Posted by cr-rex
start by calibrating your tps
throttle closed
vta 1- 0.10-0.70
vta 2- 0.75-1.25
throttle open
vta 1- 4.2-4.6
vta 2- 4.8-5.0
get your numbers to reflect the values in that range.
also, your water temp sensor isnt working or the incorrect plug is in it. i dont think your motor is sitting at a chilly -30C. i believe this to be the reason why your car isnt starting. the cranking enrichment and other values for that temperature would more than likely keep the motor from starting. its pretty easy to mix up the fuel temp sensor with the water temp sensor. for whatever reason, they reach and can be swapped around
Stock there is no fuse between the battery and the starter I don't believe. But, if you're blowing a 200 amp fuse, you've got a bad ground or bad connection somewhere with the main starting/charging circuit. No way the starter should be drawing more than that!
I'm not a fan of battery relocations as they introduces many weird gremlins over time. They're necessary many times but I'm just not a fan.
All that said with the water temp sensor hooked up properly now is it just cranking or is it spitting every now and again like it's getting some combustion?
The cranking speed in your video from December sounded OK, it's not as fast as it could be but it's plenty fast enough to start. Usually low 200 RPM is about the cranking speed.
Go through your grounds.
You probably have a ground loop.
Start by cleaning them up. Bare metal.
Keep it as simple as possible.
IMO, having low cranking speed also indicates low system voltage which may prevent starting. Your battery cable to the engine compartment may be too small, or as said above, the ground path is deficient. To diagnose if this is the issue, I'd tee-in a second healthy battery at any reasonable place in the engine compartment. My 1st choice would be + terminal at the starter solenoid location of the supply from the battery, and ground the 2nd battery to the engine.
Stock there is no fuse between the battery and the starter I don't believe. But, if you're blowing a 200 amp fuse, you've got a bad ground or bad connection somewhere with the main starting/charging circuit. No way the starter should be drawing more than that!
I'm not a fan of battery relocations as they introduces many weird gremlins over time. They're necessary many times but I'm just not a fan.
All that said with the water temp sensor hooked up properly now is it just cranking or is it spitting every now and again like it's getting some combustion?
The cranking speed in your video from December sounded OK, it's not as fast as it could be but it's plenty fast enough to start. Usually low 200 RPM is about the cranking speed.
Dale
I would pay so much to have the car back to its stock setup! I searched for used starters and I realized that there should be a bracket that comes with the starter. There is no bracket that comes my starter, I guess it could be the reason to my actual problem? That bracket seems to be acting like a major ground.
The starter sounds much slower now than in the video I posted in December.
Since the water temp sensor is hooked up properly, I didn't hear a single explosion. But the starter is also much slower than it was...
Originally Posted by DaveW
IMO, having low cranking speed also indicates low system voltage which may prevent starting. Your battery cable to the engine compartment may be too small, or as said above, the ground path is deficient. To diagnose if this is the issue, I'd tee-in a second healthy battery at any reasonable place in the engine compartment. My 1st choice would be + terminal at the starter solenoid location of the supply from the battery, and ground the 2nd battery to the engine.
I guess I could do that with booster cables? Sounds like an idea...
Another thing... I just found out that slack cable beside the starter. I've got no clue where it could go...
Double check Spark plugs are not fouled, I would let the engine sit for a few hours without injectors to help evaporate fuel.
Ive seen on other cars like subaru where they put coolant temp connections wrong and the car think its extremely hot, so it dumps ridiculous amount of fuel to start it, obviously wont start, i swapped the plug to the correct one and it immediately starts.
Make sure to charge the battery as well and try again
That single wire black connector hanging down by the starter is most likely the water temp sender for the gauge on the dash. It's near the oil pressure regulator.
I don't think there's a bracket or anything by the starter - the FC had one, but not the FD. There is a bracket that connects to the power steering/Ac bracket that the main negative ground goes to with the car stock.
If you're blowing a 200A fuse, you've got a short somewhere. It could be intermittent. There should also be a rubber boot on the starter solenoid positive connection. Not sure that's your short, but it should still be covered.
Double check Spark plugs are not fouled, I would let the engine sit for a few hours without injectors to help evaporate fuel.
Ive seen on other cars like subaru where they put coolant temp connections wrong and the car think its extremely hot, so it dumps ridiculous amount of fuel to start it, obviously wont start, i swapped the plug to the correct one and it immediately starts.
Make sure to charge the battery as well and try again
I recharge the (new) battery everyday, and I unflood the car everyday too. I really tried everything at this point...
Originally Posted by DaleClark
That single wire black connector hanging down by the starter is most likely the water temp sender for the gauge on the dash. It's near the oil pressure regulator.
I don't think there's a bracket or anything by the starter - the FC had one, but not the FD. There is a bracket that connects to the power steering/Ac bracket that the main negative ground goes to with the car stock.
Dale
You are right, I quickly searched and I found out that only AUTO starters got a bracket...
Originally Posted by TomU
If you're blowing a 200A fuse, you've got a short somewhere. It could be intermittent. There should also be a rubber boot on the starter solenoid positive connection. Not sure that's your short, but it should still be covered.
Positive connection on the solenoid is OK (I just checked).
Originally Posted by 97fd3s
That wire/plug should be oil pressure sensor.
get some new plugs and give it a tow.
I can't really tow the car anymore, I've got a new garage and it is a big pain to bring it back inside if it doesn't work. Plus, I am alone with no family or friend (I moved).
I just found a spare starter from an FC, I installed it and I get about the same cranking RPM (170).
Should I reinitialize the PFC setup at this point? I'm getting desperate now. I spent a lot of money (and time) on that problem.
Since I connected the water temp sensor to the right spot, I didn't hear a single explosion. When it wasn't connected correctly, I was hearing a few explosions, sometimes.
Positive connection on the solenoid is OK (I just checked).
Yes, but it's unprotected.
Short aside, if you know you are getting spark at the plug tip, and you know you are getting fuel to the combustion chamber, and you know you have good compression, the only thing it could be is the timing of the spark
Does the PFC have a tune it it? If so it will need to be backed up with a Datalogit before doing the All Settings Init.
Even with the slower cranking speed that should be enough to get it to start. It will probably be a little fussy to start first try. The 200amp fuse that's blowing worries me, though.
12-16-19, 11:33 AM
