torque brace
10-21-03, 08:18 PM
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torque brace
Man those things are baddass. It stabilized my idle, smoothed my acceleration out, my Kaaz is smoother, the clutch on it hardly makes any noise at low speed turns, and I had no idea that would happen. My car just feels solid and for some reason my vacuum is better. I'm reading close to 400mm/Hg, whereas before I was reading 375mm/Hg.
Well, maybe I'm just lucky with all of this but it comes at a price. I didn't dampen it with the bushings and just conected it to straight to my frame. So it vibrates my car pretty noticeably, I'm not sure it is good or not but I have more rattling and feel pretty much everything. I need better grounding, so when I turn on my lights it is pretty darn harsh. It is well worth it otherwise.
Garrett
Well, maybe I'm just lucky with all of this but it comes at a price. I didn't dampen it with the bushings and just conected it to straight to my frame. So it vibrates my car pretty noticeably, I'm not sure it is good or not but I have more rattling and feel pretty much everything. I need better grounding, so when I turn on my lights it is pretty darn harsh. It is well worth it otherwise.
Garrett
10-21-03, 11:50 PM
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I just did the Ron K. Miller one. My vacuum is better too. I couldn't find the hole plug so I used high temperature hose for the bushings. Check out https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...readid=145026. BTW, these things should be in the archive, or better yet, a how-to section. Searching is a PITA !
10-21-03, 11:58 PM
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i cant understand why so many people are doing this. what about the increased stress put on the motor mounts? and on the intake manifold? it seems like a bandaid fix, the real solution being stiffer motor mounts.
10-22-03, 12:40 AM
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Good point.
Do you have an example of something going wrong, such as a broken motor mount? I would like to know a case in which a torque brace user suffered a bad side effect other than causing, in my case, a rattle in the door.
I guess what I am saying is, I've heard a lot of speculation about these things and there supposedly harmful strain on the motor mounts. I would like to see a substantiated claim of a broken motor mount to back up the theory.
The good side has been thoroughly document in my post and others. I have yet to see a post labeled: torque brace likely culprit of broken motor mount.
Garrett
Do you have an example of something going wrong, such as a broken motor mount? I would like to know a case in which a torque brace user suffered a bad side effect other than causing, in my case, a rattle in the door.
I guess what I am saying is, I've heard a lot of speculation about these things and there supposedly harmful strain on the motor mounts. I would like to see a substantiated claim of a broken motor mount to back up the theory.
The good side has been thoroughly document in my post and others. I have yet to see a post labeled: torque brace likely culprit of broken motor mount.
Garrett
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10-22-03, 01:03 AM
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i wasnt saying it would cause the motor mounts to break. i was asking what about the increased stress on them. the answer might very well be "the motor mounts can handle it just fine".
but the question about why not fix the root of the problem still stands.
but the question about why not fix the root of the problem still stands.
10-22-03, 01:24 AM
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I'd be careful with using the one from Jason with no bushings or pads. Over a period of time, the engine vibrations and force applied from the engine torque will wear down the screw threads and possbily damage the body work around the mounting location. I have the same brace and bought some longer screws that can fit a bushing on each side of the bracket, so it goes bushing, bracket, bushing, washer, screw. This way, there is some shock absorbant material in both directions to dampen the vibrations from the brace, which would otherwise be delivered directly into the side of the car.
10-22-03, 02:52 AM
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No one has had one of these braces installed long enough to detect any long term damage. FWIW, someone posted a pic of a torque brace install that ended up ripping out a chunk of the engine sidewall.
The problem with this mod, and so many others, is there has not been enough time to know if there are long-term effects or not. Anyone who thinks that the torque brace does not create stress and fatigue on the UIM and the engine sidewall is an idiot. Whether or not that stress is large enough to cause damage, who knows for sure.
I personally don't see the need for one. I used to miss the 2-3 shift under hard driving all the time until I learned to not get sloppy with having the clutch all the way down while shifting. Now I never miss it. I guess if someone gives me one, I'll put it on and see how much it changes, but I'll never spring the cash to actually buy one. IMO, if the brace is making that big of an improvement in your car, then you have other issues with your drivetrain that should be addressed (bad motor mounts, etc).
The problem with this mod, and so many others, is there has not been enough time to know if there are long-term effects or not. Anyone who thinks that the torque brace does not create stress and fatigue on the UIM and the engine sidewall is an idiot. Whether or not that stress is large enough to cause damage, who knows for sure.
I personally don't see the need for one. I used to miss the 2-3 shift under hard driving all the time until I learned to not get sloppy with having the clutch all the way down while shifting. Now I never miss it. I guess if someone gives me one, I'll put it on and see how much it changes, but I'll never spring the cash to actually buy one. IMO, if the brace is making that big of an improvement in your car, then you have other issues with your drivetrain that should be addressed (bad motor mounts, etc).
10-22-03, 03:33 PM
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Interesting...
So I'll install the bushings right away. It will probably help dampen the vibration on top of preventing a potential problem later. I don't want to strip the screws or rip a hole in my sidewall. It is a short-term fix undoubtedly, I just need to follow MakoDHardie's advice and get that sidewall buffered with bushings.
On a further note...I think the use of a torque brace is sometimes beneficial to engines that are getting tired and mounts that are showing there age. One possibility is that by physically connecting my UIM to my sidewall with metal it could act as a ground? Not sure of the plausibility but it maybe likely.
Once I get my engine rebuilt, I will be using Bryan's polyurethane mounts. I have already talked to him about it and he has redesigned them from his original inception.
ryneberg: You should do a little experimenting with trying one, I was surprised you haven’t by your adamant display of knowledge on the subject. Who knows, you may like them. I do agree with you on my car having other issues. It needs to be grounded better, that is the true fix of my vacuum. My Kaaz oil needs to be replaced and my differential leak has to be fixed. However, I think I'll try to work with the brace and see what benefits it shows even after I fix those problems. I like the effect of having a real solid shift throw. Sometimes even the best of us slop around with throwing it in gear.
And I like the rigidity it adds to driving. To me, that is the most important aspect. It makes you feel less disconnect.
Garrett
So I'll install the bushings right away. It will probably help dampen the vibration on top of preventing a potential problem later. I don't want to strip the screws or rip a hole in my sidewall. It is a short-term fix undoubtedly, I just need to follow MakoDHardie's advice and get that sidewall buffered with bushings.
On a further note...I think the use of a torque brace is sometimes beneficial to engines that are getting tired and mounts that are showing there age. One possibility is that by physically connecting my UIM to my sidewall with metal it could act as a ground? Not sure of the plausibility but it maybe likely.
Once I get my engine rebuilt, I will be using Bryan's polyurethane mounts. I have already talked to him about it and he has redesigned them from his original inception.
ryneberg: You should do a little experimenting with trying one, I was surprised you haven’t by your adamant display of knowledge on the subject. Who knows, you may like them. I do agree with you on my car having other issues. It needs to be grounded better, that is the true fix of my vacuum. My Kaaz oil needs to be replaced and my differential leak has to be fixed. However, I think I'll try to work with the brace and see what benefits it shows even after I fix those problems. I like the effect of having a real solid shift throw. Sometimes even the best of us slop around with throwing it in gear.
And I like the rigidity it adds to driving. To me, that is the most important aspect. It makes you feel less disconnect.Garrett
Last edited by Garrett; 10-22-03 at 04:02 PM.
10-22-03, 05:37 PM
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You'll be set a little better with the bushings around the sidewall mount. The vibrations are unnoticable above idle or if your PFC idles around 1k like mine does, but there are still back and forth vibrations that will put some shock into the screws and if it's straight metal to metal, you will notice some serious chatter at low rpms. When I took my brace off to polish it, I noticed that one of the bolts had reamed out the hole a good bit while the brace was loose. The second hole in that mount looks like a piece of paper that had a mispunched hole in it. Always make sure that joint where the tie rod connects to the sidewall mout is tightened down pretty well.