TONS of white smoke expert help needed
09-30-11, 01:39 PM
#1
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TONS of white smoke expert help needed
1. history
2. parts installed
3. current problem
1.) first of i'd like to introduce myself and give some history on the car. my names Eric and i live in maine the car is a 93 fd rx7 i bought the car in north Carolina in April 2 and a half years ago. i stupidly drove the car home rather than trailer it. on the way home one of the radiator hoses blew off i lost most of my coolant before i knew was going on as soon as i saw the needle on the temp gauge going up i pulled over and shut off the car but it was too late after some diagnostic work i found the coolant seal had failed. i contacted kevin at rotary resurrection to rebuild my motor i had a local shop pull my motor to be shipped to kevin than reinstall it once the rebuild was complete. the local shop lied to me telling me they had worked on fds before they had not. they made a ton of mistakes and when i finally got my car back in November it wasn't running right it had a ton of vacuum leaks the wiring was all screwed up my engine harness was reused even though it was falling apart ect ect. i then did some research and found a shop fairly close by that is a highly reputable rotary shop. they looked it over and told me that i'd need a new or rebuilt engine harness all new vacuum lines and recommended i get a apexi power fc. i didn't have the cash to fix it at the time so i stored the car over the winter and brought it back to the shop in the spring. my contact at the shop hurt his back one week after i dropped the car off and had to have surgery and extensive psychical therapy therefor not much work got done to the car that summer and it was stored there over the winter. the next spring summer the following was installed...
2.) all new vaccumn lines, power fc, rewired engine harness, stock twin turbos with brand new CHRAs, pettit racing launch kit, tein mono flex coilovers, emissions removed, pettit racing mid pipe and down pipe.
stuff that was done before: pettit racing "trak pro cold air intake", act stage 2 clutch and lighted flywheel, fresh engine rebuild.
3.) the car was dynod at 310 hp and had no issues at that time i picked the car up the next day and drove it about an hour to get home. once about 5 minutes from home i noticed white smoke pouring out of my exhaust like so bad people behind be were having to swerve around it to see. once home i noticed oil dripping out of my tailpipe. seemed like tell tale signs of a bad turbo to me so i brought it back to have the turbos replaced again. the shop found that the bearings were bad in my brand new turbos so they ordered another set... same problem another set was ordered this time bnr's stage 3 upgrade brand new once again same problem. the engine is good and there is no obstructions in any oil lines. got any ideas? if you need more info just let me know
2. parts installed
3. current problem
1.) first of i'd like to introduce myself and give some history on the car. my names Eric and i live in maine the car is a 93 fd rx7 i bought the car in north Carolina in April 2 and a half years ago. i stupidly drove the car home rather than trailer it. on the way home one of the radiator hoses blew off i lost most of my coolant before i knew was going on as soon as i saw the needle on the temp gauge going up i pulled over and shut off the car but it was too late after some diagnostic work i found the coolant seal had failed. i contacted kevin at rotary resurrection to rebuild my motor i had a local shop pull my motor to be shipped to kevin than reinstall it once the rebuild was complete. the local shop lied to me telling me they had worked on fds before they had not. they made a ton of mistakes and when i finally got my car back in November it wasn't running right it had a ton of vacuum leaks the wiring was all screwed up my engine harness was reused even though it was falling apart ect ect. i then did some research and found a shop fairly close by that is a highly reputable rotary shop. they looked it over and told me that i'd need a new or rebuilt engine harness all new vacuum lines and recommended i get a apexi power fc. i didn't have the cash to fix it at the time so i stored the car over the winter and brought it back to the shop in the spring. my contact at the shop hurt his back one week after i dropped the car off and had to have surgery and extensive psychical therapy therefor not much work got done to the car that summer and it was stored there over the winter. the next spring summer the following was installed...
2.) all new vaccumn lines, power fc, rewired engine harness, stock twin turbos with brand new CHRAs, pettit racing launch kit, tein mono flex coilovers, emissions removed, pettit racing mid pipe and down pipe.
stuff that was done before: pettit racing "trak pro cold air intake", act stage 2 clutch and lighted flywheel, fresh engine rebuild.
3.) the car was dynod at 310 hp and had no issues at that time i picked the car up the next day and drove it about an hour to get home. once about 5 minutes from home i noticed white smoke pouring out of my exhaust like so bad people behind be were having to swerve around it to see. once home i noticed oil dripping out of my tailpipe. seemed like tell tale signs of a bad turbo to me so i brought it back to have the turbos replaced again. the shop found that the bearings were bad in my brand new turbos so they ordered another set... same problem another set was ordered this time bnr's stage 3 upgrade brand new once again same problem. the engine is good and there is no obstructions in any oil lines. got any ideas? if you need more info just let me know
09-30-11, 01:47 PM
#2
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So you had 2 sets of turbos with bad bearings from the factory? Very hard to believe.
What did BNR say about theirs?
Normally white smoke is coolant. Does it smell sweet?
John
What did BNR say about theirs?
Normally white smoke is coolant. Does it smell sweet?
John
09-30-11, 03:09 PM
#3
If the turbos were dying from lack of oil, they probably would not be giving up that much to the exhaust... Wonder what your oil pressure is? Think an oil pressure regulator spring was left out of the eccentric shaft by rebuild guys? My car smokes like crazy, but it is coming from an oil control ring inside the engine and the oil get burned up before it gets to the turbos.
09-30-11, 06:37 PM
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when you say brand new turbos - I take it you mean rebuilt?
it is not uncommon for a bad stock twin turbo setup to still smoke after a rebuild if the core is bad
btw, when you say 'new' BNR, do you mean you mailed your turbos to them and they performed the upgrade on the exact same set of smoking turbos?
or did you literally pay another 3000$ for a set of brand new turbos?
it is not uncommon for a bad stock twin turbo setup to still smoke after a rebuild if the core is bad
btw, when you say 'new' BNR, do you mean you mailed your turbos to them and they performed the upgrade on the exact same set of smoking turbos?
or did you literally pay another 3000$ for a set of brand new turbos?
10-01-11, 12:59 PM
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RENESISFD: i guess it wasn't 3 complete sets the first time i replaced them they were in ok shape but were still stock from the factory and as the car has a lot of miles i decided to have them replaced. bnr replaced the chra s in twins but used the same hot housings. there was in fact a bad bearing in one side of the twins he replaced that at no cost and when the turbos were back on the car it still smoked same as before i'm talking like block out the sun TONS of smoke. bnr told me they were having a hard time finding new bearings for the stock turbo rebuild 
so he gave me a set of stage 3 turbos for little cost extra these had new hot housings and chras.
the smoke is white ish blue and smells like oil not sweet like coolant i've had a coolant seal failure with this car before so i've seen the difference.
thank you for your interest Eric
sc_frontier: oil pressure on the stock gauge looks normal but i know there not always accurate. its not the oil control ring the motor was set to top dead center and scoped to see if oil pooled in the housings it did not. and the motor was also run without the turbos with all lines blocked off and such and the motor ran fine with no abnormal smoking
again thanks for your help/ interest
Rotary Experiment Seven:read above is there anything we could be missing? i'll probably give you a call monday thanks a lot
Eric
potatochobit: the original turbos in the car did not smoke that was not the reason for the rebuild. bnr rebuilt my turbos with my core with just a stage one at first... they smoked. he then replaced the bearings he knew were bad on one side of the turbos.... they still smoke. finally bnr told me he would give me the stage 3 upgrade for little cost extra with a different core. the stage 3s in my car now are completely different than the ones i started with and they still smoke.
thanks, Eric
so he gave me a set of stage 3 turbos for little cost extra these had new hot housings and chras. the smoke is white ish blue and smells like oil not sweet like coolant i've had a coolant seal failure with this car before so i've seen the difference.
thank you for your interest Eric
sc_frontier: oil pressure on the stock gauge looks normal but i know there not always accurate. its not the oil control ring the motor was set to top dead center and scoped to see if oil pooled in the housings it did not. and the motor was also run without the turbos with all lines blocked off and such and the motor ran fine with no abnormal smoking
again thanks for your help/ interest
Rotary Experiment Seven:read above is there anything we could be missing? i'll probably give you a call monday thanks a lot
Eric
potatochobit: the original turbos in the car did not smoke that was not the reason for the rebuild. bnr rebuilt my turbos with my core with just a stage one at first... they smoked. he then replaced the bearings he knew were bad on one side of the turbos.... they still smoke. finally bnr told me he would give me the stage 3 upgrade for little cost extra with a different core. the stage 3s in my car now are completely different than the ones i started with and they still smoke.
thanks, Eric
10-01-11, 08:45 PM
#7
I've actually used a racing beat header designed for an na car. welded on a flange to mate to the midpipe, and bolted it up in place of the turbos. I blocked off the oil and coolant lines and put a filter on the tb elbow. You can do this and drive around for a while to see if it still smokes.
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10-03-11, 11:15 PM
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You may want to check out this thread. We were going in circles on this one and it turned out to be something real simple, but easily overlooked. Car smoked so bad it blotted out the sun.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/oil-dripping-out-my-downpipe-963386/
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/oil-dripping-out-my-downpipe-963386/
Last edited by twinsinside; 10-03-11 at 11:18 PM.
10-04-11, 03:00 PM
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You may want to check out this thread. We were going in circles on this one and it turned out to be something real simple, but easily overlooked. Car smoked so bad it blotted out the sun.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=963386
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=963386
10-04-11, 04:35 PM
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You may want to check out this thread. We were going in circles on this one and it turned out to be something real simple, but easily overlooked. Car smoked so bad it blotted out the sun.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=963386
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=963386
10-04-11, 10:08 PM
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By the way, you mentioned the stock turbo rebuild/bnr thing. As far as I know they're the only one's that will try to rebuild them for you. Though I've never tried it myself there have been many posts on this forum regarding rebuilding the stock twins and how it never seems to work out, sometimes with some nasty results.
The stage 3's are far superior (and a lot cheaper) than the stock twins anyway, so you made the right choice there. It's one of those rare cases of getting more than you paid for.
If your PCV isn't the problem, and I doubt all of the multiple turbos you've put on it have all been bad, you're probably looking at an oil control ring problem.
The stage 3's are far superior (and a lot cheaper) than the stock twins anyway, so you made the right choice there. It's one of those rare cases of getting more than you paid for.
If your PCV isn't the problem, and I doubt all of the multiple turbos you've put on it have all been bad, you're probably looking at an oil control ring problem.
10-05-11, 02:48 PM
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the oil control ring is fine the motor was run completely without the turbos and ran fine with no smoking. map sensor is not the issue . thanks again for you help guys i'm still stumped though...
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