Thrilled to be back. Please help me to clean her up.
06-23-15, 08:09 AM
#26
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Yeah as I slept on this my anger level has risen sharply. My other suspicion is that something is wrong with the bnr turbos as the primary spools like a big single.
I guess what has me angry is that the previous owner spent serious money accumulating the best parts money can buy over a decade. Fact is I realy don't care what it costs to make it right. Money is just money. What has me angry is that my suspicion also is that money won't be the problem. It's going to be the frustration, stress, and logistics of chasing down problems and ultimately it's just never right. I want to play nice in the sandbox but we shall see where this goes.
Maybe I am panicking now. But this is what my gut is telling me with 20 yrs of rotary ownership under my belt.
When I drove the car I knew something was up. But I looked at the parts list, condition, miles on a new reman etc and made the judgement that hey it's untuned as the car is meticulously well sorted.
I guess what has me angry is that the previous owner spent serious money accumulating the best parts money can buy over a decade. Fact is I realy don't care what it costs to make it right. Money is just money. What has me angry is that my suspicion also is that money won't be the problem. It's going to be the frustration, stress, and logistics of chasing down problems and ultimately it's just never right. I want to play nice in the sandbox but we shall see where this goes.
Maybe I am panicking now. But this is what my gut is telling me with 20 yrs of rotary ownership under my belt.
When I drove the car I knew something was up. But I looked at the parts list, condition, miles on a new reman etc and made the judgement that hey it's untuned as the car is meticulously well sorted.
Sell the aftermarket seals and get OEM seals, springs, coolant rings etc....
Sell the BNRs and get BW twin scroll
Sell the big injectors and buy new secondaries and bore those out to 1300 and return the fuel system to stock.
Run no more than 12 psi of boost
You will have a 375 HP FD that will run for years and put a big smile on your face
PS BEWARE of anyone selling a car that needs a tune LOL
06-23-15, 08:15 AM
#27
Yeah as I slept on this my anger level has risen sharply. My other suspicion is that something is wrong with the bnr turbos as the primary spools like a big single.
I guess what has me angry is that the previous owner spent serious money accumulating the best parts money can buy over a decade. Fact is I realy don't care what it costs to make it right. Money is just money. What has me angry is that my suspicion also is that money won't be the problem. It's going to be the frustration, stress, and logistics of chasing down problems and ultimately it's just never right. I want to play nice in the sandbox but we shall see where this goes.
Maybe I am panicking now. But this is what my gut is telling me with 20 yrs of rotary ownership under my belt.
When I drove the car I knew something was up. But I looked at the parts list, condition, miles on a new reman etc and made the judgement that hey it's untuned as the car is meticulously well sorted.
I guess what has me angry is that the previous owner spent serious money accumulating the best parts money can buy over a decade. Fact is I realy don't care what it costs to make it right. Money is just money. What has me angry is that my suspicion also is that money won't be the problem. It's going to be the frustration, stress, and logistics of chasing down problems and ultimately it's just never right. I want to play nice in the sandbox but we shall see where this goes.
Maybe I am panicking now. But this is what my gut is telling me with 20 yrs of rotary ownership under my belt.
When I drove the car I knew something was up. But I looked at the parts list, condition, miles on a new reman etc and made the judgement that hey it's untuned as the car is meticulously well sorted.
06-23-15, 09:12 AM
#28
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
i am leaving car at Speed1. He is cracking the motor open today/tomorrow.
I been spending hours searching. I am convinced that at least one of the problems is a clogged cat. Dave mentioned it kept richening up even when he would take fuel out. This is a symptom of a clogged cat. Power was way way low. The PFC break in maps were set to pig rich, the omp was turned way up (all the way up), and the gas was being premixed. This all tells me that the cat likely clogged up quickly. Especially when you are driving it easy. The car popped on downsift, another symptom.
The million dollar question is did this clogged cat lead to this low compression. Could an awfully clogged cat create low compression? or is low compression only a result of engine damage??
one thing though does a clogged lead to poor spool? I thought it was the other way around, a clogged cat leads to boost dropping off.
I been spending hours searching. I am convinced that at least one of the problems is a clogged cat. Dave mentioned it kept richening up even when he would take fuel out. This is a symptom of a clogged cat. Power was way way low. The PFC break in maps were set to pig rich, the omp was turned way up (all the way up), and the gas was being premixed. This all tells me that the cat likely clogged up quickly. Especially when you are driving it easy. The car popped on downsift, another symptom.
The million dollar question is did this clogged cat lead to this low compression. Could an awfully clogged cat create low compression? or is low compression only a result of engine damage??
one thing though does a clogged lead to poor spool? I thought it was the other way around, a clogged cat leads to boost dropping off.
Last edited by matty; 06-23-15 at 09:17 AM.
06-23-15, 09:28 AM
#30
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i am leaving car at Speed1. He is cracking the motor open today/tomorrow.
I been spending hours searching. I am convinced that at least one of the problems is a clogged cat. Dave mentioned it kept richening up even when he would take fuel out. This is a symptom of a clogged cat. Power was way way low. The PFC break in maps were set to pig rich, the omp was turned way up (all the way up), and the gas was being premixed. This all tells me that the cat likely clogged up quickly. Especially when you are driving it easy. The car popped on downsift, another symptom.
The million dollar question is did this clogged cat lead to this low compression. Could an awfully clogged cat create low compression? or is low compression only a result of engine damage??
I been spending hours searching. I am convinced that at least one of the problems is a clogged cat. Dave mentioned it kept richening up even when he would take fuel out. This is a symptom of a clogged cat. Power was way way low. The PFC break in maps were set to pig rich, the omp was turned way up (all the way up), and the gas was being premixed. This all tells me that the cat likely clogged up quickly. Especially when you are driving it easy. The car popped on downsift, another symptom.
The million dollar question is did this clogged cat lead to this low compression. Could an awfully clogged cat create low compression? or is low compression only a result of engine damage??
Low compression cars will run extremely rich hence decel backfires etc....
A clogged cat won't cause or create low compression unless you drive like that for many miles and get carbon build up etc.... I'm betting on bad springs for the low compression. Again go OEM on all seals and springs etc....
Also some of the crazy apex seals need crazy springs to match them so you may simply have the wrong kind of springs installed. Aftermarket engine internals seem to be a recipe for trouble as are most aftermarket parts.
06-23-15, 09:35 AM
#31
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Tks fritz. That was Daves guess as well. Let's hope it's just that as the logistics to breaking in new seals would absolutely suck given I live so far away.
As far as fd ownership. You know I said that to my wife this morn. I was so lucky with my first fd. Car was more reliable than my Toyota tercel beater for ten yrs and made real nice power. I guess I was lucky. Or simply that it was built and tuned by Dave since inception. Perception.....
As far as fd ownership. You know I said that to my wife this morn. I was so lucky with my first fd. Car was more reliable than my Toyota tercel beater for ten yrs and made real nice power. I guess I was lucky. Or simply that it was built and tuned by Dave since inception. Perception.....
06-23-15, 10:04 AM
#32
That motor was over 120psi compression on all faces when it left my shop. It was a fresh Mazda Reman that we opened up, ported, re-clearanced, and did our upgrades to it. It had brand new rotor housings and as I recall at least two of the irons were new. It was on a break-in base tune which is intended to get the car running driveable with minimal boost and under 4000 rpm. It isn't intended for extended driving pat the break-in period. I haven't seen the car for over a year, neither for oil changes, or any of the checkups I recommend during break-in so anything could have happened.
I would definitely check the catalytic converter. I recommend replacing it with a Magnaflow resonated midpipe. I don't recommend a cat on any rotary modified to this extent except very temporarily for emissions. They just trap too much heat.
Check the entire ignition system: coils, wires, harness, crank angle sensors, etc.
Look for signs of excessive exhaust gas temperatures. If the springs collapsed, the motor was overheated.
The RX Parts seals work with the OEM springs, but you MUST premix with them. In fact i feel every single rotary should be premixed if you want it to last. Even with a working oil metering pump, I recommend 10-12 oz premix per tank gas or 1.5:1 when racing or dynoing.
If the primary is sluggish but the secondary is spooling, I would suspect a control issue.
Let me know how everything looks when its apart.
I would definitely check the catalytic converter. I recommend replacing it with a Magnaflow resonated midpipe. I don't recommend a cat on any rotary modified to this extent except very temporarily for emissions. They just trap too much heat.
Check the entire ignition system: coils, wires, harness, crank angle sensors, etc.
Look for signs of excessive exhaust gas temperatures. If the springs collapsed, the motor was overheated.
The RX Parts seals work with the OEM springs, but you MUST premix with them. In fact i feel every single rotary should be premixed if you want it to last. Even with a working oil metering pump, I recommend 10-12 oz premix per tank gas or 1.5:1 when racing or dynoing.
If the primary is sluggish but the secondary is spooling, I would suspect a control issue.
Let me know how everything looks when its apart.
Last edited by IRPerformance; 06-23-15 at 10:06 AM.
06-23-15, 10:25 AM
#33
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Well...
according to mike the car was due for its first oil change upon completion of the break in which just happened. So I am not sure he "missed" anything. 10months sounds like a long time but not when car is sitting and put 1k miles on it in that time frame.
In terms of driving the car hard on base maps, I can't comment on that. I don't know what he did or how he did it. But I'd wager if something went wrong,ie an overheat, he'd know about it. I don't think u drive car hard a couple times then all of a sudden low compression. My guess is that it would have had to have "broke" or "Broke'ish". Basically I am saying that an event would have had to occur.
I refuse to speculate exactly what happen. Gun to head though I don't think mike knowingly broke the car. I don't think he knew of an over heat or an event. That's pirely speculation though and a judgement of character. I can't speculate beyond that though who knows.
I will be sure to update thread with details as they come. Ty for input.
according to mike the car was due for its first oil change upon completion of the break in which just happened. So I am not sure he "missed" anything. 10months sounds like a long time but not when car is sitting and put 1k miles on it in that time frame.
In terms of driving the car hard on base maps, I can't comment on that. I don't know what he did or how he did it. But I'd wager if something went wrong,ie an overheat, he'd know about it. I don't think u drive car hard a couple times then all of a sudden low compression. My guess is that it would have had to have "broke" or "Broke'ish". Basically I am saying that an event would have had to occur.
I refuse to speculate exactly what happen. Gun to head though I don't think mike knowingly broke the car. I don't think he knew of an over heat or an event. That's pirely speculation though and a judgement of character. I can't speculate beyond that though who knows.
I will be sure to update thread with details as they come. Ty for input.
06-23-15, 11:39 AM
#34
Could it still be in the process of being broken in? Following this thread because I have the exact same engine, but haven't started it up yet because I've been too busy screwing around with other fun idiosyncrasies I'm having to deal with.
Ihor, what about a high flow cat such as Bonez?
Ihor, what about a high flow cat such as Bonez?
06-23-15, 11:50 AM
#35
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Not for low compression.
I been pondering this. It's my fault. I knew something was up the minute I sat in car.
It's only a car and only money. There are much worse things that can be dominating my thinking.
The mystery will be solved shortly. Dave absolutely hated this cat that's on car. He insisted that the cat is for Chevys only. Club members love them though. It will be for sale soon. It's new. I am going to be running a straight pipe for now.
The car on the dyno for a base run made 235 hp at 10 psi. He cleaned up the map and made 289 at same psi. However that's where it stopped more psi yielded little performance. 13psi made 305 then 15 psi made 318. Torque was horrendous.
The car should make much much more. It has everything.
I guess I will venture a guess. Please no one take this the wrong way. As I said its my fault bc I knew something was up. I am going to guess the maps on the car probably led to something failing.And maybe it was driven Too hard. Or simply the engine was weak to beging with from the factory. It sucks. It's horrendous. I am off from work this week with the sole purpose of getting the car to my standard. That means several layers of Zaino. Touching up the paint. Getting wheels balanced. Getting emissions done. Etc. I can't do that now. Chit happens. I am in the pool now. Life could be worse.
I been pondering this. It's my fault. I knew something was up the minute I sat in car.
It's only a car and only money. There are much worse things that can be dominating my thinking.
The mystery will be solved shortly. Dave absolutely hated this cat that's on car. He insisted that the cat is for Chevys only. Club members love them though. It will be for sale soon. It's new. I am going to be running a straight pipe for now.
The car on the dyno for a base run made 235 hp at 10 psi. He cleaned up the map and made 289 at same psi. However that's where it stopped more psi yielded little performance. 13psi made 305 then 15 psi made 318. Torque was horrendous.
The car should make much much more. It has everything.
I guess I will venture a guess. Please no one take this the wrong way. As I said its my fault bc I knew something was up. I am going to guess the maps on the car probably led to something failing.And maybe it was driven Too hard. Or simply the engine was weak to beging with from the factory. It sucks. It's horrendous. I am off from work this week with the sole purpose of getting the car to my standard. That means several layers of Zaino. Touching up the paint. Getting wheels balanced. Getting emissions done. Etc. I can't do that now. Chit happens. I am in the pool now. Life could be worse.
Last edited by matty; 06-23-15 at 12:09 PM.
06-23-15, 01:35 PM
#36
Could it still be in the process of being broken in? Following this thread because I have the exact same engine, but haven't started it up yet because I've been too busy screwing around with other fun idiosyncrasies I'm having to deal with.
Ihor, what about a high flow cat such as Bonez?
Ihor, what about a high flow cat such as Bonez?
06-23-15, 01:48 PM
#37
Well...
according to mike the car was due for its first oil change upon completion of the break in which just happened. So I am not sure he "missed" anything. 10months sounds like a long time but not when car is sitting and put 1k miles on it in that time frame.
In terms of driving the car hard on base maps, I can't comment on that. I don't know what he did or how he did it. But I'd wager if something went wrong,ie an overheat, he'd know about it. I don't think u drive car hard a couple times then all of a sudden low compression. My guess is that it would have had to have "broke" or "Broke'ish". Basically I am saying that an event would have had to occur.
I refuse to speculate exactly what happen. Gun to head though I don't think mike knowingly broke the car. I don't think he knew of an over heat or an event. That's pirely speculation though and a judgement of character. I can't speculate beyond that though who knows.
I will be sure to update thread with details as they come. Ty for input.
according to mike the car was due for its first oil change upon completion of the break in which just happened. So I am not sure he "missed" anything. 10months sounds like a long time but not when car is sitting and put 1k miles on it in that time frame.
In terms of driving the car hard on base maps, I can't comment on that. I don't know what he did or how he did it. But I'd wager if something went wrong,ie an overheat, he'd know about it. I don't think u drive car hard a couple times then all of a sudden low compression. My guess is that it would have had to have "broke" or "Broke'ish". Basically I am saying that an event would have had to occur.
I refuse to speculate exactly what happen. Gun to head though I don't think mike knowingly broke the car. I don't think he knew of an over heat or an event. That's pirely speculation though and a judgement of character. I can't speculate beyond that though who knows.
I will be sure to update thread with details as they come. Ty for input.
Last edited by IRPerformance; 06-23-15 at 02:02 PM.
06-23-15, 02:36 PM
#38
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A bad set of springs may have great compression until you boost and then they go flat
Break in is way over rated
An engine is good or it isn't good
Good luck going forward and again OEM springs and seals FTW!
Break in is way over rated
An engine is good or it isn't good
Good luck going forward and again OEM springs and seals FTW!
06-23-15, 02:47 PM
#40
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
If it's just the springs. I will be very happy. I am a pessimist, aka a jerk. So I think the engine is toast. If it's just the springs then I am still in good shape on this purchase/car. I won't be picking it up if it's not making the power it should. If this means letting Dave own the thing and break in a new motor himself I am I am open to it.
A new straight midpipe is going in the car as well. So this time there will be no excuse for it.
A new straight midpipe is going in the car as well. So this time there will be no excuse for it.
06-24-15, 09:24 AM
#42
Yeah as I slept on this my anger level has risen sharply. My other suspicion is that something is wrong with the bnr turbos as the primary spools like a big single.
I guess what has me angry is that the previous owner spent serious money accumulating the best parts money can buy over a decade. Fact is I realy don't care what it costs to make it right. Money is just money. What has me angry is that my suspicion also is that money won't be the problem. It's going to be the frustration, stress, and logistics of chasing down problems and ultimately it's just never right. I want to play nice in the sandbox but we shall see where this goes.
Maybe I am panicking now. But this is what my gut is telling me with 20 yrs of rotary ownership under my belt.
When I drove the car I knew something was up. But I looked at the parts list, condition, miles on a new reman etc and made the judgement that hey it's untuned as the car is meticulously well sorted.
I guess what has me angry is that the previous owner spent serious money accumulating the best parts money can buy over a decade. Fact is I realy don't care what it costs to make it right. Money is just money. What has me angry is that my suspicion also is that money won't be the problem. It's going to be the frustration, stress, and logistics of chasing down problems and ultimately it's just never right. I want to play nice in the sandbox but we shall see where this goes.
Maybe I am panicking now. But this is what my gut is telling me with 20 yrs of rotary ownership under my belt.
When I drove the car I knew something was up. But I looked at the parts list, condition, miles on a new reman etc and made the judgement that hey it's untuned as the car is meticulously well sorted.
Just curious, what size battery do you have during the compression check?
Last edited by Monsterbox; 06-24-15 at 09:30 AM.
06-24-15, 09:38 AM
#43
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
06-26-15, 03:07 PM
#45
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Just got the call. Apex seals are warped. Dave is replacing and making the street port bigger.
I am not going to sit here and pick it about as to why. It is what it is. I just want to drive the thing on Sunday's. I been waiting 5 yrs to get back in the game. Another little bit of time isn't the end of the world. The money situation sucks, ie having spent 22800 on the car and now several thousand more a few days later but at least at the end I will have a car that should be solid.
I am with fritz on going with stock seals but I left it up to Dave.
I am not going to sit here and pick it about as to why. It is what it is. I just want to drive the thing on Sunday's. I been waiting 5 yrs to get back in the game. Another little bit of time isn't the end of the world. The money situation sucks, ie having spent 22800 on the car and now several thousand more a few days later but at least at the end I will have a car that should be solid.
I am with fritz on going with stock seals but I left it up to Dave.
06-26-15, 04:53 PM
#46
Since i have the same seals, I'd like to know why. But since only the PO knows how it was broken in, you can only speculate.
I've been out of the game for only 18 months and am having withdrawals, can't imagine 5 yrs. Think the solution is to have 2 so that hopefully at least one will be running
I've been out of the game for only 18 months and am having withdrawals, can't imagine 5 yrs. Think the solution is to have 2 so that hopefully at least one will be running
06-28-15, 01:31 AM
#47
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Since i have the same seals, I'd like to know why. But since only the PO knows how it was broken in, you can only speculate.
I've been out of the game for only 18 months and am having withdrawals, can't imagine 5 yrs. Think the solution is to have 2 so that hopefully at least one will be running
I've been out of the game for only 18 months and am having withdrawals, can't imagine 5 yrs. Think the solution is to have 2 so that hopefully at least one will be running
Matty, sorry to hear your about your pain. Hopefully, you get the her back and meets your expectations.
06-28-15, 04:00 AM
#48
development
06-30-15, 06:33 PM
#49
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Withdrawal is kicking in now. Jesus. I waited five yrs. I buy a perfect example. I drive it once. And now it's sitting in shop. What's an avg eta on a engine build? Only thing being replaced are the seals. The motor is fine else where. Oh yea, we porting the motor some more as well.
It seemed like speed1 is a well oiled machine. So I am hoping the turn around is fairly quick. Although I did spring this on them. I am about to offer them 500 more to get it done sooner.
It seemed like speed1 is a well oiled machine. So I am hoping the turn around is fairly quick. Although I did spring this on them. I am about to offer them 500 more to get it done sooner.
Last edited by matty; 06-30-15 at 06:37 PM.
07-02-15, 08:51 AM
#50
I know I made a joke earlier about coming back to the FD community... but I really feel horrible about hearing all this.
You aren't the first, and you're not the last that's going to buy a FD thinking it's "done right" then find out the contrary. Worst part is, no one usually fesses up to being the weak link on the chain. Tuner says it was the builder, builder says it was the driver, driver says he didn't do anything out of the norm - but guess who foots the bill?
Then you end up spending $4000-$5000 more just to get it to where you "thought" it was. If this next motor goes, then you throw your hands up and sell it or sink another $5000 just to worry about it everyday.
I know a V8 swap isn't for everyone... but after a while it starts to make sense.
You aren't the first, and you're not the last that's going to buy a FD thinking it's "done right" then find out the contrary. Worst part is, no one usually fesses up to being the weak link on the chain. Tuner says it was the builder, builder says it was the driver, driver says he didn't do anything out of the norm - but guess who foots the bill?
Then you end up spending $4000-$5000 more just to get it to where you "thought" it was. If this next motor goes, then you throw your hands up and sell it or sink another $5000 just to worry about it everyday.
I know a V8 swap isn't for everyone... but after a while it starts to make sense.