Suggestions on how to start this process
06-08-22, 07:57 PM
#1
Suggestions on how to start this process
Quick backstory: I’m going to college for programming and plan on learning how to program and build ECUs (this is the end goal). I recently bought a 1995 RHD RX7. It’s pretty much completely stock but I want to learn more about the car and build it myself. I understand that this is a very expensive and hard task but its a personal goal of mine. My friend and I worked very hard the past few years and saved up to buy a personal mechanic shop with lifts for us to work on our cars. This is where I plan on completely disassembling the car and learning all the components of the car.
Process: How do you guys suggest going about learning how to build a RHD FD RX7? When I say build I mean building the engine, electric wiring, fuel system, etc. Again I understand this is very difficult but Im okay with failing and then learning. My plan is to do a single turbo conversion, upgrade the fuel system, engine components, sent the block out to get ported, fueltech ecu, and create a new wiring harness, etc. How do you guys recommend learning how to build this all myself? I’ve already started studying the stock engine harness and all the different electrical components. Do you guys have any suggestions or recommendations on how I can go about learning this?
Process: How do you guys suggest going about learning how to build a RHD FD RX7? When I say build I mean building the engine, electric wiring, fuel system, etc. Again I understand this is very difficult but Im okay with failing and then learning. My plan is to do a single turbo conversion, upgrade the fuel system, engine components, sent the block out to get ported, fueltech ecu, and create a new wiring harness, etc. How do you guys recommend learning how to build this all myself? I’ve already started studying the stock engine harness and all the different electrical components. Do you guys have any suggestions or recommendations on how I can go about learning this?
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spintowinrx7 (06-08-22)
06-08-22, 09:41 PM
#3
First off, I hate to be a downer but I highly doubt you have "studied the harness". I get that you're still pretty new to the club and quite green so I won't give you too much guff for it, but unless you read Japanese fluently, this needs to be your first stop before touching anything.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...glish-1157199/
Through it's 10 year production run, the FD has SIX different wiring diagram books and each of them add onto the previous one. ECUs changed in December 1995 too. So if you had a Spirit R, you'd need all six wiring diagram books. I have years of experience reading manuals in Japanese, translated both the Wiring Diagram book and the full Workshop Manual for the 20b Cosmo and certain kanji can still trip me up. This is NOT something to guess and hope you get it right with. Depending on when your car was built, it may be a Version 3 (Series 6) or possibly a Version 4 (Series 7). The only way to tell for certain is by your VIN number. First digit after "FD3S". If it is Series 6, some things carry over to a North American FD. Some things don't but you won't be able to tell without both sets of wiring diagrams and that's a LOT of pages to be digging through. And just a FYI, there are 9 different Workshop Manuals for the FD and they "stack" too. The first one is ~1200 pages long. And there are separate ones for rebuilding the engine and transmissions, both auto and manual, too.
How I know? I have them. Literally...ALL of them.
If it is Series 7, all bets are off. Until you know what you have, Full Stop.
Once you know what you're looking at, building a harness is pretty easy. In short, run wire, cut, crimp terminals on, shove terminals in connectors. Repeat 700 more times...
Aaron Cake gives a demonstration on his 1976 Cosmo in considerably more detail here.
Aaron Cake also does porting in an earlier episode too. Time to buckle down, you got homework to do.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...glish-1157199/
Through it's 10 year production run, the FD has SIX different wiring diagram books and each of them add onto the previous one. ECUs changed in December 1995 too. So if you had a Spirit R, you'd need all six wiring diagram books. I have years of experience reading manuals in Japanese, translated both the Wiring Diagram book and the full Workshop Manual for the 20b Cosmo and certain kanji can still trip me up. This is NOT something to guess and hope you get it right with. Depending on when your car was built, it may be a Version 3 (Series 6) or possibly a Version 4 (Series 7). The only way to tell for certain is by your VIN number. First digit after "FD3S". If it is Series 6, some things carry over to a North American FD. Some things don't but you won't be able to tell without both sets of wiring diagrams and that's a LOT of pages to be digging through. And just a FYI, there are 9 different Workshop Manuals for the FD and they "stack" too. The first one is ~1200 pages long. And there are separate ones for rebuilding the engine and transmissions, both auto and manual, too.
How I know? I have them. Literally...ALL of them.
If it is Series 7, all bets are off. Until you know what you have, Full Stop.
Once you know what you're looking at, building a harness is pretty easy. In short, run wire, cut, crimp terminals on, shove terminals in connectors. Repeat 700 more times...
Aaron Cake gives a demonstration on his 1976 Cosmo in considerably more detail here.Aaron Cake also does porting in an earlier episode too. Time to buckle down, you got homework to do.
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spintowinrx7 (06-08-22)
06-08-22, 09:55 PM
#4
First off, I hate to be a downer but I highly doubt you have "studied the harness". I get that you're still pretty new to the club and quite green so I won't give you too much guff for it, but unless you read Japanese fluently, this needs to be your first stop before touching anything.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...glish-1157199/
Through it's 10 year production run, the FD has SIX different wiring diagram books and each of them add onto the previous one. ECUs changed in December 1995 too. So if you had a Spirit R, you'd need all six wiring diagram books. I have years of experience reading manuals in Japanese, translated both the Wiring Diagram book and the full Workshop Manual for the 20b Cosmo and certain kanji can still trip me up. This is NOT something to guess and hope you get it right with. Depending on when your car was built, it may be a Version 3 (Series 6) or possibly a Version 4 (Series 7). The only way to tell for certain is by your VIN number. First digit after "FD3S". If it is Series 6, some things carry over to a North American FD. Some things don't but you won't be able to tell without both sets of wiring diagrams and that's a LOT of pages to be digging through. And just a FYI, there are 9 different Workshop Manuals for the FD and they "stack" too. The first one is ~1200 pages long. And there are separate ones for rebuilding the engine and transmissions, both auto and manual, too.
How I know? I have them. Literally...ALL of them.
If it is Series 7, all bets are off. Until you know what you have, Full Stop.
Once you know what you're looking at, building a harness is pretty easy. In short, run wire, cut, crimp terminals on, shove terminals in connectors. Repeat 700 more times... Aaron Cake gives a demonstration on his 1976 Cosmo in considerably more detail here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78pFqsrZfNY&t=1897s
Aaron Cake also does porting in an earlier episode too. Time to buckle down, you got homework to do.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...glish-1157199/
Through it's 10 year production run, the FD has SIX different wiring diagram books and each of them add onto the previous one. ECUs changed in December 1995 too. So if you had a Spirit R, you'd need all six wiring diagram books. I have years of experience reading manuals in Japanese, translated both the Wiring Diagram book and the full Workshop Manual for the 20b Cosmo and certain kanji can still trip me up. This is NOT something to guess and hope you get it right with. Depending on when your car was built, it may be a Version 3 (Series 6) or possibly a Version 4 (Series 7). The only way to tell for certain is by your VIN number. First digit after "FD3S". If it is Series 6, some things carry over to a North American FD. Some things don't but you won't be able to tell without both sets of wiring diagrams and that's a LOT of pages to be digging through. And just a FYI, there are 9 different Workshop Manuals for the FD and they "stack" too. The first one is ~1200 pages long. And there are separate ones for rebuilding the engine and transmissions, both auto and manual, too.
How I know? I have them. Literally...ALL of them.
If it is Series 7, all bets are off. Until you know what you have, Full Stop.
Once you know what you're looking at, building a harness is pretty easy. In short, run wire, cut, crimp terminals on, shove terminals in connectors. Repeat 700 more times...
Aaron Cake gives a demonstration on his 1976 Cosmo in considerably more detail here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78pFqsrZfNY&t=1897s
Aaron Cake also does porting in an earlier episode too. Time to buckle down, you got homework to do.
Again I appreciate your help. This is very important to me and I want to begin as soon as possible.
06-08-22, 10:32 PM
#5
Junior Member
I think one of the best ways to learn is to start small and get working. If the car is still running then hold off on the full rebuild and look at fixing small stuff and knocking out the reliability mods. Make a day out of pulling the TB and maybe the IC. Look at the boards and find out whats not right then put it back together. Next time go deeper. Maybe take the UIM off and get completely overwhelmed when you see the rats nest. Then put it all back together. Feel empowered when you complete a rats nest job. Each time you take it apart look through the manual and do some checks of components. Everytime you take the same thing apart you will start to really understand how it all works. But also make sure it runs right each time you put everything back together. When it doesnt and you have to figure out why...thats a great learning experience.
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06-08-22, 11:18 PM
#7
ECU and engine building is far beyond my technical expertise, and I realize you can do whatever you want with your car, but I would recommend finding a less pristine example to use as a platform for a build. There are plenty of FD chassis out there that need love, and it would be a shame to tear down one of the few remaining stock examples. Many, many people start FD projects and never finish them. Not saying you would do this, but the result is that the car either deteriorates from sitting or worse, gets parted out. It would be smarter both financially and from a community standpoint to start with an example that has a few needs, and improve it, rather than start with a pristine stock one. Just my unsolicited $.02.
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06-08-22, 11:57 PM
#9
As for the Solenoid Rack (Rats nest), I would suggest waiting for one reason: it is a mess, and I haven't had time to translate the diagram from Japanese. Or to colorize it properly. It's been 3 weeks since I finished the Cosmo Manual and I'm just now starting to feel normal again after 27 months of 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week.
Plus, the Solenoid Rack has a nasty habit of having something breaking in the sea of black stuff if you look at it funny. There are some differences compared to the North American diagram, so better to not go on another wild goose chase, looking for something that isn't on your car. Sorry, but I've had enough of the calls at 3am from halfway across the planet saying..."オビ-ワンを助けてください、あなたは私の唯一の希望です。"
Put it in Google Translate, you'll see the joke.
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spintowinrx7 (06-09-22)
06-09-22, 12:18 AM
#10
You're taking things one step at a time. Might sound silly, but this is how you build skills that pay dividends on future projects. In reference to your earlier post, your car is a Version 3 and a rather late one at that. So, most of the North American manual will apply to your car. Except the parts that don't. A good example of this is the キャタ・アンプ (Catalyst Amplifier). It amplifies the signal from the Exhaust Temperature Sensor so the ECU knows if it is over 850 degrees Celsius (1562 degrees Fahrenheit) and can make adjustments to timing and fuel to help cool things back down. North American FDs don't have the Catalyst Amp, presumably due to the ECU being revised to accept the signal straight from the sensor. This should help you avoid a wild goose chase.
As for the Solenoid Rack (Rats nest), I would suggest waiting for one reason: it is a mess, and I haven't had time to translate the diagram from Japanese. Or to colorize it properly. It's been 3 weeks since I finished the Cosmo Manual and I'm just now starting to feel normal again after 27 months of 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week.
Plus, the Solenoid Rack has a nasty habit of having something breaking in the sea of black stuff if you look at it funny. There are some differences compared to the North American diagram, so better to not go on another wild goose chase, looking for something that isn't on your car. Sorry, but I've had enough of the calls at 3am from halfway across the planet saying..."オビ-ワンを助けてください、あなたは私の唯一の希望です。"
Put it in Google Translate, you'll see the joke.
As for the Solenoid Rack (Rats nest), I would suggest waiting for one reason: it is a mess, and I haven't had time to translate the diagram from Japanese. Or to colorize it properly. It's been 3 weeks since I finished the Cosmo Manual and I'm just now starting to feel normal again after 27 months of 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week.
Plus, the Solenoid Rack has a nasty habit of having something breaking in the sea of black stuff if you look at it funny. There are some differences compared to the North American diagram, so better to not go on another wild goose chase, looking for something that isn't on your car. Sorry, but I've had enough of the calls at 3am from halfway across the planet saying..."オビ-ワンを助けてください、あなたは私の唯一の希望です。"
Put it in Google Translate, you'll see the joke.
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spintowinrx7 (06-09-22)
06-09-22, 12:34 AM
#11
You're taking things one step at a time. Might sound silly, but this is how you build skills that pay dividends on future projects. In reference to your earlier post, your car is a Version 3 and a rather late one at that. So, most of the North American manual will apply to your car. Except the parts that don't. A good example of this is the キャタ・アンプ (Catalyst Amplifier). It amplifies the signal from the Exhaust Temperature Sensor so the ECU knows if it is over 850 degrees Celsius (1562 degrees Fahrenheit) and can make adjustments to timing and fuel to help cool things back down. North American FDs don't have the Catalyst Amp, presumably due to the ECU being revised to accept the signal straight from the sensor. This should help you avoid a wild goose chase.
As for the Solenoid Rack (Rats nest), I would suggest waiting for one reason: it is a mess, and I haven't had time to translate the diagram from Japanese. Or to colorize it properly. It's been 3 weeks since I finished the Cosmo Manual and I'm just now starting to feel normal again after 27 months of 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week.
Plus, the Solenoid Rack has a nasty habit of having something breaking in the sea of black stuff if you look at it funny. There are some differences compared to the North American diagram, so better to not go on another wild goose chase, looking for something that isn't on your car. Sorry, but I've had enough of the calls at 3am from halfway across the planet saying..."オビ-ワンを助けてください、あなたは私の唯一の希望です。"
Put it in Google Translate, you'll see the joke.
As for the Solenoid Rack (Rats nest), I would suggest waiting for one reason: it is a mess, and I haven't had time to translate the diagram from Japanese. Or to colorize it properly. It's been 3 weeks since I finished the Cosmo Manual and I'm just now starting to feel normal again after 27 months of 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week.
Plus, the Solenoid Rack has a nasty habit of having something breaking in the sea of black stuff if you look at it funny. There are some differences compared to the North American diagram, so better to not go on another wild goose chase, looking for something that isn't on your car. Sorry, but I've had enough of the calls at 3am from halfway across the planet saying..."オビ-ワンを助けてください、あなたは私の唯一の希望です。"
Put it in Google Translate, you'll see the joke.
the translation was pretty funny
. Again thank you for all the info! Once you finish the translation for the rats nest I will be locking myself in my room like a degenerate and studying it religiously lmao. I want to feel prepared when I begin this project.
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Akagis_white_comet (06-09-22)
06-09-22, 08:31 AM
#12
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
OK, here's the deal.
START SMALL and STAY SMALL. By that I mean don't blow the whole car apart and try to put it back together. The odds that you will have a running car again are SLIM. I've seen this happen MANY MANY times, over and over again. It's VERY easy to take a car apart, then you get mired down in details and have a car that never goes back together or when you get it to a certain point you realize there's major problems that you can't figure out and you give up. That car eventually gets parted out and goes to the junkyard and we have 1 more FD gone forever.
You need to make a game plan as to what you want to do. You wanting to make a ton of power, a show car, a race-only car, what? A good all-around street car? You have to narrow the focus. There's a LOT of stuff that you can do and people have done to these cars that falls under "race only" - yes you can do that in a street car, but it SUCKS to drive on the street.
It sounds like one thing you are big time interested in is ECU's. Get into the Megasquirt, you can get components to build your own from scratch and you can learn to program and tune it yourself. The good thing here is you can swap a stock ECU and harness back in and the car will be as it is now.
Anyhow, focus on individual systems and then tailor that to your end goal. Don't try and do it all at once.
The best car to mod and work on is a car you can DRIVE. Do something, then test it out. Try to minimize down time. Plan ahead to have parts and tools on hand, get the job done over a weekend, and drive the car and enjoy it. A car sitting on jack stands and parts in a pile of boxes is zero fun. It's also much more rewarding to do something then go enjoy the fruits of your labor. Not to mention troubleshooting something when you have changed EVERYTHING is damn near impossible.
Dale
START SMALL and STAY SMALL. By that I mean don't blow the whole car apart and try to put it back together. The odds that you will have a running car again are SLIM. I've seen this happen MANY MANY times, over and over again. It's VERY easy to take a car apart, then you get mired down in details and have a car that never goes back together or when you get it to a certain point you realize there's major problems that you can't figure out and you give up. That car eventually gets parted out and goes to the junkyard and we have 1 more FD gone forever.
You need to make a game plan as to what you want to do. You wanting to make a ton of power, a show car, a race-only car, what? A good all-around street car? You have to narrow the focus. There's a LOT of stuff that you can do and people have done to these cars that falls under "race only" - yes you can do that in a street car, but it SUCKS to drive on the street.
It sounds like one thing you are big time interested in is ECU's. Get into the Megasquirt, you can get components to build your own from scratch and you can learn to program and tune it yourself. The good thing here is you can swap a stock ECU and harness back in and the car will be as it is now.
Anyhow, focus on individual systems and then tailor that to your end goal. Don't try and do it all at once.
The best car to mod and work on is a car you can DRIVE. Do something, then test it out. Try to minimize down time. Plan ahead to have parts and tools on hand, get the job done over a weekend, and drive the car and enjoy it. A car sitting on jack stands and parts in a pile of boxes is zero fun. It's also much more rewarding to do something then go enjoy the fruits of your labor. Not to mention troubleshooting something when you have changed EVERYTHING is damn near impossible.
Dale
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06-09-22, 11:52 AM
#13
I want to build a phone street car with some power. power goal would be 550hp. I want to enjoy something I built and take to shows here and there. Do you have any suggestions on what specific components I can play around with to get more experience? I'm trying to think of things I can change and start the build process that doesn't require me to get a tune. I want to make a compete build list and see what small things I can purchase and install to get more experience. Thank you for the advice!
06-09-22, 12:25 PM
#14
I want to build a phone street car with some power. power goal would be 550hp. I want to enjoy something I built and take to shows here and there. Do you have any suggestions on what specific components I can play around with to get more experience? I'm trying to think of things I can change and start the build process that doesn't require me to get a tune. I want to make a compete build list and see what small things I can purchase and install to get more experience. Thank you for the advice!
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06-09-22, 12:42 PM
#15
If you want to learn about automotive ecus, you don't even need to pull your car apart. Research what the guys at RUSEFI did.
https://rusefi.com/
I think they have a thread on grassrootsmotorsports forum as well.
Also megasquirt
https://rusefi.com/
I think they have a thread on grassrootsmotorsports forum as well.
Also megasquirt
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spintowinrx7 (06-10-22)
06-09-22, 12:52 PM
#16
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
550hp is not "some power" on an RX-7 that is "insane power".
You have to remember an RX-7 is an old school analog car. 550hp means ZERO traction, there is no traction control or anything like that. Like you put your foot down in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear and the tires just instantly light up. Then you start breaking transmissions and differentials....
Like Pete said, these are 30 year old cars. Let the car tell you what it needs. Start with good tires, nothing works right if you have crap tires. Go through the brakes, change all the fluids, change the fuel filter, stuff like that. It's not exciting or glamorous, but it's the difference between a car that's constantly broken and a car you can get in, turn the key, and go anywhere without thinking twice. I built my car to be rock-solid and it hasn't ever let me down. A lot of that is making sure all the maintenance is up to date and addressing any components that are at the end of life.
For power, Banzai Racing's thread is amazing on power you can make for each part added -
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Really 400hp is about the area you want to be in IMHO for this chassis. That's a car that is VERY fast but isn't just breaking stuff left and right and is still balanced enough to be a fun street car. More than that and you are at the power levels where you will just chase constant problems.
Also, don't fall into the trap of "only buying things once". That make sense to some extent but it can make for a deep rabbit hole. For example, you start running out of fuel injector. So, you could just get a step up kit with larger secondaries to add more fuel in, get that tuned in, and you're off. Or, you could "buy it once" and get a monster fuel system with multiple fuel pumps that is a bitch to set up, install, and get dialed in properly so the car can start, run, and drive OK. Then you buy other things to try and "fix" that - a different ECU, bigger turbo to use all that fuel, etc. etc. etc. Or you could buy that step up fuel rail, drive the car awesome for a good long while, then sell it to fund the next step up in fuel system if you get to that point.
Really, the first round of mods is the most fun, that's the easy bolt-on stuff that makes a big seat of the pants difference with each thing you do.
Dale
You have to remember an RX-7 is an old school analog car. 550hp means ZERO traction, there is no traction control or anything like that. Like you put your foot down in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear and the tires just instantly light up. Then you start breaking transmissions and differentials....
Like Pete said, these are 30 year old cars. Let the car tell you what it needs. Start with good tires, nothing works right if you have crap tires. Go through the brakes, change all the fluids, change the fuel filter, stuff like that. It's not exciting or glamorous, but it's the difference between a car that's constantly broken and a car you can get in, turn the key, and go anywhere without thinking twice. I built my car to be rock-solid and it hasn't ever let me down. A lot of that is making sure all the maintenance is up to date and addressing any components that are at the end of life.
For power, Banzai Racing's thread is amazing on power you can make for each part added -
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Really 400hp is about the area you want to be in IMHO for this chassis. That's a car that is VERY fast but isn't just breaking stuff left and right and is still balanced enough to be a fun street car. More than that and you are at the power levels where you will just chase constant problems.
Also, don't fall into the trap of "only buying things once". That make sense to some extent but it can make for a deep rabbit hole. For example, you start running out of fuel injector. So, you could just get a step up kit with larger secondaries to add more fuel in, get that tuned in, and you're off. Or, you could "buy it once" and get a monster fuel system with multiple fuel pumps that is a bitch to set up, install, and get dialed in properly so the car can start, run, and drive OK. Then you buy other things to try and "fix" that - a different ECU, bigger turbo to use all that fuel, etc. etc. etc. Or you could buy that step up fuel rail, drive the car awesome for a good long while, then sell it to fund the next step up in fuel system if you get to that point.
Really, the first round of mods is the most fun, that's the easy bolt-on stuff that makes a big seat of the pants difference with each thing you do.
Dale
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06-09-22, 01:20 PM
#17
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
I also have to re-iterate what CR-REX said, "READ". There's VERY little that hasn't been done on these cars over time. Dig through the Build sections, of course read through all the FAQs and stickies, just READ.
If you have questions, you can go to Google and search, for example, "dyno results site:rx7club.com" and that will give you search results from just the forum. Works way better than the forum's crappy search.
Also if you find someone who seems to know a lot, click on their user name and do a "find more posts by this user" - it's a good way to read all the posts someone has made.
Dale
If you have questions, you can go to Google and search, for example, "dyno results site:rx7club.com" and that will give you search results from just the forum. Works way better than the forum's crappy search.
Also if you find someone who seems to know a lot, click on their user name and do a "find more posts by this user" - it's a good way to read all the posts someone has made.
Dale
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spintowinrx7 (06-10-22)
06-09-22, 01:33 PM
#18
I want to build a phone street car with some power. power goal would be 550hp. I want to enjoy something I built and take to shows here and there. Do you have any suggestions on what specific components I can play around with to get more experience? I'm trying to think of things I can change and start the build process that doesn't require me to get a tune. I want to make a compete build list and see what small things I can purchase and install to get more experience. Thank you for the advice!
Aim for 300hp first. It is considerably more realistic and attainable without the complexity of requiring a full standalone EMS such as a Megasquirt. This has the added benefit of focusing on fixing what is broken and addressing known issues such as cooling, without needing a bunch of expensive custom parts made. This approach is called "OEM+"
A Koyo all-aluminum radiator is around $300 and is a bolt-in swap with no fuss. This removes the possibility of the stock radiator end tanks cracking from heat/age due to being plastic. The eFini Y-pipe for the turbos is another similar upgrade which removes another known failure point due to the original one being plastic and failing from heat. It is $417 from Mazdatrix. The Air Separation Tank (AST) is another issue for the same reason (plastic). An aluminum version is readily available (one on ebay for $75 right now).
See a pattern here? Plastic plumbing gets replaced with metal. Rubber items such a vacuum lines or coolant hoses are upgraded to Silicone. These are relatively inexpensive, fairly straightforward items that allow the rest of the car to do the best it can and show you it's true colors, the way it was originally intended.
One thing I would suggest is that when you are ready to address the vacuum lines/solenoid rack, have someone with firsthand experience be there in person to guide you because things are likely to NOT go perfectly. After 20+ years, plastic hose barbs like to break and it usually means some swearing at $135 a piece for each solenoid (Atkins Rotary, current price). The voice of experience knows what is likely to come up, and has a few ideas on how to remove each line while minimizing stress on the plastic barbs. And if one decides to break anyway, despite all of the precautions being taken, sourcing a replacement is likely a bit easier and faster and possibly closer thanks to the community we have. There is a lot of merit in being able to pick up the phone, call a friend and have the part in question be there the same day.
Anyway, plenty of tips and tricks for vacuum line stuff have been documented. Do some homework on it and you'll be better prepared.
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06-09-22, 10:39 PM
#19
I will echo what many have said here: Read. Read, read, read. This forum is a near limitless resource of information that can help you learn your car inside and out. I myself went from not knowing the differences between positive and negative battery terminals shortly before joining here many years ago (16~ when I started lurking) to having done many things on many cars. The best part about this, is it is free. I learned a tremendous amount of information and I still learn something new here about every day, and I haven't paid a cent for it.
That said, I will also agree with what was mentioned regarding power goals. This is a 2700lb car which in terms of driving aids has ABS, and that is it. Aiming for large power numbers does not really need to be the goal here, and without the right mindset it can be absolutely dangerous, especially if you are not a skilled driver and one that is familiar with analogue rear wheel drive sports cars, as newer FR cars tend to use those driving aids to avoid a potentially disastrous/deadly situation. Add a bit too much throttle in a turn (which can quite easily be done by accident, without even being intentional), boost hits and it happens to be wet out, and you could quickly be looking in the direction you were just driving from, it's no joke. These cars are absolutely amazing to own and drive but they do require discipline and education.
Start modest, find and fix the issues it has by naturally being an older car, get it running strong in factory configuration, then do the mods mentioned above. This car does not need huge numbers to be enjoyable. I don't mean this in a negative way, but your enthusiasm (which can be a good thing) needs to also be matched with caution. Take the advice from the people here on the forums, they have been around much longer than I, and they aren't typing what they have said just to bask in their own words.
That said, I will also agree with what was mentioned regarding power goals. This is a 2700lb car which in terms of driving aids has ABS, and that is it. Aiming for large power numbers does not really need to be the goal here, and without the right mindset it can be absolutely dangerous, especially if you are not a skilled driver and one that is familiar with analogue rear wheel drive sports cars, as newer FR cars tend to use those driving aids to avoid a potentially disastrous/deadly situation. Add a bit too much throttle in a turn (which can quite easily be done by accident, without even being intentional), boost hits and it happens to be wet out, and you could quickly be looking in the direction you were just driving from, it's no joke. These cars are absolutely amazing to own and drive but they do require discipline and education.
Start modest, find and fix the issues it has by naturally being an older car, get it running strong in factory configuration, then do the mods mentioned above. This car does not need huge numbers to be enjoyable. I don't mean this in a negative way, but your enthusiasm (which can be a good thing) needs to also be matched with caution. Take the advice from the people here on the forums, they have been around much longer than I, and they aren't typing what they have said just to bask in their own words.
The following 3 users liked this post by SwappedNA:
06-10-22, 10:21 AM
#20
I hate to burst your bubble, but just take Dale's advice - start by just restoring the stock FD you already have back to "like new" original operating condition. Get to know the car and all of its quirks, drive it and evaluate it; you may end up realizing that you don't need 550HP to be happy with it. If you're not happy with it, then seriously think about what you want to get from the car and have realistic expectations - as with any project management task, it all comes down to the balance between cost, schedule and performance. Generally speaking, 550HP will cost you a lot more and be significantly less reliable than a sub-400HP 13B-REW, and BOTH will need lots of serious thought and cash put into tuning & engine management to end up with a reliable build.
06-10-22, 10:26 AM
#21
550hp is not "some power" on an RX-7 that is "insane power".
You have to remember an RX-7 is an old school analog car. 550hp means ZERO traction, there is no traction control or anything like that. Like you put your foot down in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear and the tires just instantly light up. Then you start breaking transmissions and differentials....
Like Pete said, these are 30 year old cars. Let the car tell you what it needs. Start with good tires, nothing works right if you have crap tires. Go through the brakes, change all the fluids, change the fuel filter, stuff like that. It's not exciting or glamorous, but it's the difference between a car that's constantly broken and a car you can get in, turn the key, and go anywhere without thinking twice. I built my car to be rock-solid and it hasn't ever let me down. A lot of that is making sure all the maintenance is up to date and addressing any components that are at the end of life.
For power, Banzai Racing's thread is amazing on power you can make for each part added -
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Really 400hp is about the area you want to be in IMHO for this chassis. That's a car that is VERY fast but isn't just breaking stuff left and right and is still balanced enough to be a fun street car. More than that and you are at the power levels where you will just chase constant problems.
Also, don't fall into the trap of "only buying things once". That make sense to some extent but it can make for a deep rabbit hole. For example, you start running out of fuel injector. So, you could just get a step up kit with larger secondaries to add more fuel in, get that tuned in, and you're off. Or, you could "buy it once" and get a monster fuel system with multiple fuel pumps that is a bitch to set up, install, and get dialed in properly so the car can start, run, and drive OK. Then you buy other things to try and "fix" that - a different ECU, bigger turbo to use all that fuel, etc. etc. etc. Or you could buy that step up fuel rail, drive the car awesome for a good long while, then sell it to fund the next step up in fuel system if you get to that point.
Really, the first round of mods is the most fun, that's the easy bolt-on stuff that makes a big seat of the pants difference with each thing you do.
Dale
You have to remember an RX-7 is an old school analog car. 550hp means ZERO traction, there is no traction control or anything like that. Like you put your foot down in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear and the tires just instantly light up. Then you start breaking transmissions and differentials....
Like Pete said, these are 30 year old cars. Let the car tell you what it needs. Start with good tires, nothing works right if you have crap tires. Go through the brakes, change all the fluids, change the fuel filter, stuff like that. It's not exciting or glamorous, but it's the difference between a car that's constantly broken and a car you can get in, turn the key, and go anywhere without thinking twice. I built my car to be rock-solid and it hasn't ever let me down. A lot of that is making sure all the maintenance is up to date and addressing any components that are at the end of life.
For power, Banzai Racing's thread is amazing on power you can make for each part added -
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
Really 400hp is about the area you want to be in IMHO for this chassis. That's a car that is VERY fast but isn't just breaking stuff left and right and is still balanced enough to be a fun street car. More than that and you are at the power levels where you will just chase constant problems.
Also, don't fall into the trap of "only buying things once". That make sense to some extent but it can make for a deep rabbit hole. For example, you start running out of fuel injector. So, you could just get a step up kit with larger secondaries to add more fuel in, get that tuned in, and you're off. Or, you could "buy it once" and get a monster fuel system with multiple fuel pumps that is a bitch to set up, install, and get dialed in properly so the car can start, run, and drive OK. Then you buy other things to try and "fix" that - a different ECU, bigger turbo to use all that fuel, etc. etc. etc. Or you could buy that step up fuel rail, drive the car awesome for a good long while, then sell it to fund the next step up in fuel system if you get to that point.
Really, the first round of mods is the most fun, that's the easy bolt-on stuff that makes a big seat of the pants difference with each thing you do.
Dale
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Akagis_white_comet (06-10-22)
06-10-22, 10:29 AM
#22
I also have to re-iterate what CR-REX said, "READ". There's VERY little that hasn't been done on these cars over time. Dig through the Build sections, of course read through all the FAQs and stickies, just READ.
If you have questions, you can go to Google and search, for example, "dyno results site:rx7club.com" and that will give you search results from just the forum. Works way better than the forum's crappy search.
Also if you find someone who seems to know a lot, click on their user name and do a "find more posts by this user" - it's a good way to read all the posts someone has made.
Dale
If you have questions, you can go to Google and search, for example, "dyno results site:rx7club.com" and that will give you search results from just the forum. Works way better than the forum's crappy search.
Also if you find someone who seems to know a lot, click on their user name and do a "find more posts by this user" - it's a good way to read all the posts someone has made.
Dale
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DaleClark (06-11-22)
06-10-22, 10:38 AM
#23
For the most part, I agree with Pete_89T2. However, one thing for all critics to keep in mind is that having ambition like this is what spurs us to keep going. That's not a bad thing, it just needs to be approached correctly to make it happen. "First make it run, then make it fun." is my approach on any project and it pays off. 500+ hp is a good long-term goal to have, but can I make a suggestion?
Aim for 300hp first. It is considerably more realistic and attainable without the complexity of requiring a full standalone EMS such as a Megasquirt. This has the added benefit of focusing on fixing what is broken and addressing known issues such as cooling, without needing a bunch of expensive custom parts made. This approach is called "OEM+"
A Koyo all-aluminum radiator is around $300 and is a bolt-in swap with no fuss. This removes the possibility of the stock radiator end tanks cracking from heat/age due to being plastic. The eFini Y-pipe for the turbos is another similar upgrade which removes another known failure point due to the original one being plastic and failing from heat. It is $417 from Mazdatrix. The Air Separation Tank (AST) is another issue for the same reason (plastic). An aluminum version is readily available (one on ebay for $75 right now).
See a pattern here? Plastic plumbing gets replaced with metal. Rubber items such a vacuum lines or coolant hoses are upgraded to Silicone. These are relatively inexpensive, fairly straightforward items that allow the rest of the car to do the best it can and show you it's true colors, the way it was originally intended.
One thing I would suggest is that when you are ready to address the vacuum lines/solenoid rack, have someone with firsthand experience be there in person to guide you because things are likely to NOT go perfectly. After 20+ years, plastic hose barbs like to break and it usually means some swearing at $135 a piece for each solenoid (Atkins Rotary, current price). The voice of experience knows what is likely to come up, and has a few ideas on how to remove each line while minimizing stress on the plastic barbs. And if one decides to break anyway, despite all of the precautions being taken, sourcing a replacement is likely a bit easier and faster and possibly closer thanks to the community we have. There is a lot of merit in being able to pick up the phone, call a friend and have the part in question be there the same day.
Anyway, plenty of tips and tricks for vacuum line stuff have been documented. Do some homework on it and you'll be better prepared.
Aim for 300hp first. It is considerably more realistic and attainable without the complexity of requiring a full standalone EMS such as a Megasquirt. This has the added benefit of focusing on fixing what is broken and addressing known issues such as cooling, without needing a bunch of expensive custom parts made. This approach is called "OEM+"
A Koyo all-aluminum radiator is around $300 and is a bolt-in swap with no fuss. This removes the possibility of the stock radiator end tanks cracking from heat/age due to being plastic. The eFini Y-pipe for the turbos is another similar upgrade which removes another known failure point due to the original one being plastic and failing from heat. It is $417 from Mazdatrix. The Air Separation Tank (AST) is another issue for the same reason (plastic). An aluminum version is readily available (one on ebay for $75 right now).
See a pattern here? Plastic plumbing gets replaced with metal. Rubber items such a vacuum lines or coolant hoses are upgraded to Silicone. These are relatively inexpensive, fairly straightforward items that allow the rest of the car to do the best it can and show you it's true colors, the way it was originally intended.
One thing I would suggest is that when you are ready to address the vacuum lines/solenoid rack, have someone with firsthand experience be there in person to guide you because things are likely to NOT go perfectly. After 20+ years, plastic hose barbs like to break and it usually means some swearing at $135 a piece for each solenoid (Atkins Rotary, current price). The voice of experience knows what is likely to come up, and has a few ideas on how to remove each line while minimizing stress on the plastic barbs. And if one decides to break anyway, despite all of the precautions being taken, sourcing a replacement is likely a bit easier and faster and possibly closer thanks to the community we have. There is a lot of merit in being able to pick up the phone, call a friend and have the part in question be there the same day.
Anyway, plenty of tips and tricks for vacuum line stuff have been documented. Do some homework on it and you'll be better prepared.
06-10-22, 10:41 AM
#24
I will echo what many have said here: Read. Read, read, read. This forum is a near limitless resource of information that can help you learn your car inside and out. I myself went from not knowing the differences between positive and negative battery terminals shortly before joining here many years ago (16~ when I started lurking) to having done many things on many cars. The best part about this, is it is free. I learned a tremendous amount of information and I still learn something new here about every day, and I haven't paid a cent for it.
That said, I will also agree with what was mentioned regarding power goals. This is a 2700lb car which in terms of driving aids has ABS, and that is it. Aiming for large power numbers does not really need to be the goal here, and without the right mindset it can be absolutely dangerous, especially if you are not a skilled driver and one that is familiar with analogue rear wheel drive sports cars, as newer FR cars tend to use those driving aids to avoid a potentially disastrous/deadly situation. Add a bit too much throttle in a turn (which can quite easily be done by accident, without even being intentional), boost hits and it happens to be wet out, and you could quickly be looking in the direction you were just driving from, it's no joke. These cars are absolutely amazing to own and drive but they do require discipline and education.
Start modest, find and fix the issues it has by naturally being an older car, get it running strong in factory configuration, then do the mods mentioned above. This car does not need huge numbers to be enjoyable. I don't mean this in a negative way, but your enthusiasm (which can be a good thing) needs to also be matched with caution. Take the advice from the people here on the forums, they have been around much longer than I, and they aren't typing what they have said just to bask in their own words.
That said, I will also agree with what was mentioned regarding power goals. This is a 2700lb car which in terms of driving aids has ABS, and that is it. Aiming for large power numbers does not really need to be the goal here, and without the right mindset it can be absolutely dangerous, especially if you are not a skilled driver and one that is familiar with analogue rear wheel drive sports cars, as newer FR cars tend to use those driving aids to avoid a potentially disastrous/deadly situation. Add a bit too much throttle in a turn (which can quite easily be done by accident, without even being intentional), boost hits and it happens to be wet out, and you could quickly be looking in the direction you were just driving from, it's no joke. These cars are absolutely amazing to own and drive but they do require discipline and education.
Start modest, find and fix the issues it has by naturally being an older car, get it running strong in factory configuration, then do the mods mentioned above. This car does not need huge numbers to be enjoyable. I don't mean this in a negative way, but your enthusiasm (which can be a good thing) needs to also be matched with caution. Take the advice from the people here on the forums, they have been around much longer than I, and they aren't typing what they have said just to bask in their own words.
06-10-22, 03:36 PM
#25
Full Member
Have you had a look at the High Performance Academy courses? You'll learn a lot about how aftermarket ECU's are setup, and some solid wiring harness construction methods. We even used an FD as an example car for quite a few course modules.
Caveat: I used to work there (sometimes still do!), so I'm 100% biased on this, but I think if you want to learn this sort of stuff, its one of the best vectors to getting started.
Caveat: I used to work there (sometimes still do!), so I'm 100% biased on this, but I think if you want to learn this sort of stuff, its one of the best vectors to getting started.
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