teamafx

iTrader: (4)

Engine is in the car, got an updated base map from a forum member here. It has fuel pressure, new plugs, but wont start unless I spray ether in it. Then it will start and run until the ether is out and then shut down. Sounds great when it runs for that 5 seconds.

Stock Ported Motor
Adaptronic ECU
AEM Smart Coils (in stock waste spark for now)
Xcessive LIM
Xcessive Oil Pan
FIC 1000cc primary
FIC 2000cc secondary
CJ Motorsports fuel rails
AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator
Walbro Fuel Pump

I know it has fuel as its been flooded and Ive had to go through the deflooding procedure. It has spark as it starts and runs and Ive individually checked for spark on each coil through the adaptronic ecu. I'm lost. I need help. I will pay you to get it running, I will pay you if you tell me whats wrong. I have a wife with health issues and I cant spend the time I need right now. I was supposed to go to Khan Racing but he wont get back to me about when. Any ideas would be great.

Text me if you want, 781-223-1490

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

So many views. Not a single response

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Sounds like a fuel problem. Starting enrichments probably.

I used to have a car that had good compression but would sometimes just crank and crank. Found something wrong with the starting and warm up enrichments and bam, problem solved.

I know you said you flooded it, but for cold start I would add a bunch of fuel and see if it fires. Also, make sure you have a fresh charge on the battery. Sometimes when it's cold, and old battery turns it over but just not quite fast enough to get it to pop.

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

If you have an idea and can help I'll pay man. Just need it running

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

I would email adaptronic (or post on their forum) and see if they will send you a base map from a car with the same injectors and coil setup. As long as you have it wired in the same way, it should work.

Disregard my battery comment. If it runs on either and then dies, it's nothing to do with the battery charge and starter.

You could also try posting screenshots of the starting and warm up enrichments, timing table, and injector and cool settings to see if anyone on here can spot something that looks funny.

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

The map was previously posted on here under one of my previous threads

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Just read some of your other posts. Looks like skeese worked on the map for you. Did you ever run the car on it or is it still not working?

If still not working, add more fuel, as he took a bunch out to prevent flooding. His comments all made sense, but it seems like you are still light on fuel if it will run on ether and then cut out.

Do you have fresh plugs?

Have you compression tested the engine?

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

Compression is great, I've had 3 sets of plugs all new I've rotaped through

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Ok. I would post screenshots of all the key settings and let others reply. Easier to comment if pictures of tables are posted. I don't have adaptronic software to review either.

Post up the screen shot of starting enrichments, injector settings, cool settings, fuel map, timing map. Maybe some shops that deal with it often will spy something obvious that you are missing.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I would remove the primary rail and injectors from the engine, but keep everything else connected( wiring, and fuel lines). Then put the injectors and rail in a plastic bag, and hold the injectors into the rail. Have some crank it and visually watch them spray. You can use the master trim button to swing the every portion of the fuel table up and down if you feel its an issue in the map. add or subtract 20, 30 50 percent fuel etc.

The base map I use starts with a 200 VE in the crank fueling table at 14 deg F, by 104 deg F its at 100 and down to 25 F at 203 Degrees. The main fuel table is at 65VE in the cranking range( 0 to 300RPM, and -1 inch of vacuum). It idles around 53 VE. Pump gas, OEM primaries.

I have used this same map for a lot of customers around the globe without any issues, one told me it was much better than his reflashed OEM ecu in japan. Hes been daily driven and doing WOT pulls on it over over a year.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Hey!

I've been watching the original that was started on here that was transferred over from the adaptronic forums for an update but since this third/fourth thread was started I missed it. Last I saw the *first shot* at a new map combined with the deflood and plug cleaning I recommended got the car to fire but it died right after and had an issue with fuel leaking out of the LIM hole which you were going to try and fix.

It will be much easier to diagnose the problems and work towards a solution if you keep this to one thread that we can all follow. Tuning is a progression and its unlikely that taking one shot at it will get the results you want.

I agree that it is likely a fuel problem. I have consistently seen the VE cranking values in the S6 RX7 Wari basemap cause flooding problems and fouled plugs and personally experienced the same failure to hold idle issues due to this. I took a shot in the dark and reduced the values to those that worked for me on my stock port engine (as well as a handful of streetports) but every engine is different and you may have to fiddle with these values to find the sweet spot for your motor.

I also reduced the fuel in the warmup enrichment values to those that I used to hold a steady idle and gradually leaning AFR during warmup. I believe these values to be fine and don't think this is the issue with your fire-and-die problem.

I had to interpolate the injector dead times from the limited data I could find online for the FICs the OP was running. I'll post my interpolation sheet when I can, but again I don't think this is the issue.

What plugs are you running and are they wet when you pull them? You want to do this whole first fire/sort out rich idle/warmup tuning on some OEM NKG 9's and 7's (or all 9's) regardless of your build and boost plans as they will be MUCH less likely to foul and cause cranking issues.

Before changing the cranking VE table from the way it is now...do you know what base fuel pressure you are running? In the other thread I went through how to roughly set it without the car actually running. If your FPR isn't setup right it could be flooding the engine out or causing it to be extremely lean regardless of the ECU file.

Just so everyone is on the same page here is the link to the other thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/adaptronic-e...start-1107990/

And the tune file that we are working with at this point is attached. I'll try and respond when I can but my time is limited right now due to work.

Skeese

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

Fuel pressure is at 40psi right now. I'm running ngk 9s and 7s. Soaked on both front and rear rotors.

H_M

iTrader: (7)

The wet plugs could be from the starter fluid/ ether. pull, the primary fuel rail, start the car, and see if the primary injectors are firing when the engine cranks.

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

I would probe the injector connector to make sure you are getting a signal from the ECU first before pulling the rail and injectors out.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I emailed you the base map I use for all cars, just double check your configuration per my email. It should have zero issues.

DaveW

Starting fluid evaporates very quickly - that's why it works. So wet plugs are not likely to be from that.

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

As again posted, those injector sizes on a stock ported motor are just crazy and most likely flooding the hell out of the motor.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

100% wrong.

This beeing a stock port has absolutely nothing to do with this. The ecu controls the injector pulse width and with modern injectors you can run huge primaries and whatever secondaries and be fine. The fuel flowing though injector during cranking, warmup, and idle is all set in the tuning software. I know people running 2X ID2000's primaries who idle at a 13.5 AFR.

Please direct all further mis-information to Facebook, there are groups for that.

Skeese

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

Why in the hell would you put 2000 prims on a stock ported motor? You can get almost 400 hp with the stock fuel setup, let alone the other fuel mods he mentioned.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

These are 23+ year old cars and the idea that you should trust a 23+ year old injector at 400 hp is ludicrous. Not to mention that the OEM fuel system has injectors that require the fragile, likely brittle after 23 years, diffusers that are half likely to break off and go through your motor. Not to mention they weren't designed to be in any way compatible with ethanol and now (23 years later) all gas is a minimum of E10 which is corrosive.

The key to having a rotary run for more than 1 season is FUEL CONTROL. You remember what cell phones looked like 23 years ago? We have smart phones in 2017. Do we absolutely have to have them? No... Do they solve a million problems per second that people just used to have to deal with when they were rocking the plug-in bag phone? Yes. If you really want to try and use the bag phone as a GPS instead of the smart phone, be my guest.

Really, you can run any combo of modern injectors so long as you have a modern ECU and a proper fueling setup. I don't want to be changing injectors every time I decide I want another 10 hp nor do I want to be relying on a 23 year old bag-phone technology injectors running at 90% duty cycle to keep my motor/turbo/rx7 that I paid for alive.

Skeese

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

I appreciate all the help. I'll try the turblown map. I know skeese has been busy and he is being a good person helping for free.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Maybe a stupid question, but how long has the car been sitting? Fresh gas may help.

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

Im getting no fuel out of the primary injectors, I pulled the rail with injectors and used the adaptronic to do a manual injector test and no fuel is coming out, but they are clicking. These are brand new injetors, so Im trying to figure out why. I verified there is fuel in the rail, the pressure is good, just nothing coming out. I also cranked it with the injectors out to check for fuel and none on the primary side. I bench tested the injectors, while hooked up to the fuel rail and Im getting fuel out. So I will now go back and check wiring to injectors from the ecu.

I have 12v at all of the power leads to the injectors, and when probing the signal feed wires I have a ground at all times until cranking, then the ground signal drops off. Im just using a DMM, and it was showing a ground

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

OK. Got the car started in GAS then it barely runs, I have to keep pedaling the gas pedal and then it will rev on its own to like 3-3500rpms for a few seconds then try to stall out unless I pedal it and even then its barely running. Different problem but its making progress. Any ideas are helpful

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

You can always try the map I sent you again, since now the primaries are getting fuel. I'm still confident it will work for you.

Skeese