saxyman990

Searched, but couldn't find anything that really helped me.... also positive that the car is not flooded (read further to find more details).

Okay, let me start off with a little background info on the car. 93 Touring. Performance mods include: DP, HF Cat, CB, PFC, custom intake, plug wires, and NGK 9 plugs. Last week, I had taken the car out for a little afternoon drive and to run some errands. I stopped over at a friends house for a couple of beers (for about 2 hrs). When I came back, my car didn't want to start. Sounded like it was flooded (not sure if it was or not). Eventually I got it to kick over.

Couple days later, I was out cruising in the car for a good 45 minutes or so. I realized I was low on gas (1/8 tank), so I stopped for some more. Pumped a full tank, and couldn't get her started again. Ended up having her towed back home. (God bless AAA).

I read through some threads and the manual, and thought that my FPR solenoid was bad (trouble with hot starts). So i ripped into the engine bay to replace that, and to find any other possibility... also found my purge control valve was disconnected (another possible cause), and my EGI Main relay was fried (not sure if that was due to my cranking in an attempt to get her started again or not). Anyway, fixed both of those problems. Tried to start the car back up, but no go. Thought that it was flooded so I did the normal unflooding procedure. Even tried starting fluid... car truned over for about a second and then just died (I figure it was just running on the starting fluid for that time).

So then I jumped my fuel pump to see if it was running... couldn't hear anything. Also pulled off the fuel lines to the motor, and they were bone DRY. Then I checked fuel pump relay and fuse... both are fine.

So basically, at this point, I've narrowed it down to either a bad fuel pump, or bad wiring that leads to the fuel pump... Personally, I'm using this as a good excuse to upgrade pumps... but I'm also concerned that even when I get the new pump in there, I could still have problems due to bad wiring.

So, here's my main question, How can I check the wiring to ensure that is not the cause of my pump malfunctioning? Any other thoughts on possible causes, or have I pretty much figured it out? Has anyone ever had a fuel pump just die on them (couldn't find many threads on that, so it seems kind of uncommon in the RX-7 world)?


Thanks for your help,
Rob

onefastrx7turbo

iTrader: (5)

Rob,

Yea, what you are describing sounds like a bad fuel pump. However, the main EGI fuse blowing indicates another problem somewhere, maybe a short. Here's what I would do. Just start eliminating possibilities. To check to see if the fuel pump wiring is bad, open the diagnostic connector and short the FP and GND with a wire or a paper clip. Then turn the ignition on. What that does is overides the relays and the ecu signal and turns the pump on at 12V. This is also how to prime the fuel system. you should be able to hear the pump whining if you listen by the gas door. You can also try and crank it while those pins are shorted, if it starts, then you might have a bad ecu signal, or something like that. Also, if you keep blowing egi fuses, I would investigate that first, as there could be a bad short somewhere. Sorry if this sounds strange, but Ive been up for about 2 days and im a lil tired hope this helps!

saxyman990

onefast, thanks for the help! I definately appreciate it.

I did short the FP and GND wires, turned the ignition ON, and there was definately no sound from the fuel pump. Thats what finally got me to pull the fuel lines on the motor to find them completely dry. Also put a Volt meter across the jumped terminals, and I'm getting about 12V there. Haven't had the chance to check to see what kind of voltage I'm seeing back at the pump....

Haven't tried cranking it with the Pump grounded, so I may try that tomorrow. But I'm not sure that will work if the fuel pump wont even run when I put a jumper across the terminals. Oh yeah, also tried sticking in my stock ECU (just in case the PFC was busted), but that didn't help at all.

You are right about that EGI relay though... I'm concerned about why that thing blew out on me. What potentially could cause the EGI relay to get fried? Do they naturally just give up after a period of time, or is there usually a wiring problem that overloads them to cause them to go?

Any other ideas/possibilites? Thanks!

twinturborx7pete

iTrader: (3)

Ok, i'm pretty sure i have the answers to both of your problems, as i have experienced both!

Fuel Pump... if it is getting voltage and not running its bad, if you can hear it running and its just not sucking up fuel, pull the pump, check the baggy, then check the support bracket for the fuel pump.. if you go with a walbro, make sure that you bend the bracket upwards so that the pump is "locked" into position. Sometimes the pump will slip away from the "up-pipe" of the fuel system.. essentially making your pump, pump fuel back into the tank instead of the line.

EGI problem.. a while back i was blowing fuses left and right and at 3$ a pop, they aren't cheap. If you keep blowing fuses, your fuel pump will not work. Since you were messing around with the fuel lines, make sure that you didn't get any wires caught underneath any metal. I had accidently got some wires caught underneath my primary injector "pod" and it was causing my EGI to short. Check underneath there, there is a short around there, i promise!!!

Please keep me updated, as i'm sure these are the solutions to your problems!

saxyman990

UPDATE - okay, new pump installed! Had to redo the ground wire back there, but finally got everything hooked up. Turned the car on and jumped the FP to GND terminals to prime the fuel system. I could actually hear the fuel pump working this time! whoo hoo!

HOWEVER, i still have another problem. There is definately a short in my electrical system somewhere. I checked the voltage back at the pump (before I hooked it up, to make sure everything was a go), and found that I only had 9 volts.... wtf.... so then I checked the battery. It also only had 9 volts. After a few tests, I came to find out that my battery liked to drain itself anytime I turned the key "on". Basically every few seconds, the voltage would drop .1 to .2 volts. So within just about 20 seconds or so of the key in the "on" position, my batter voltage dropped almost 2 volts.

Pete - thanks for the ideas on checking around the injectors for the short. I haven't had a chance to do that yet, but i'll probably get around to it in the next few days. To be honest, i don't think my short is there, cause i really haven't been messing with my injectors or anything over there recently. But, its definately worth a looksee.

Any other ideas on possibilities for common shorts, or things I should be testing? Maybe my battery has just seen the end of its life? My brain is starting to eat itself after trying to figure all of this out....

Thanks for the help,
Rob

twinturborx7pete

iTrader: (3)

could be a dead cell...?

saxyman990

NEWER UPDATE - yep.... bad cell in the battery. Ended up buying a new one. okay, here's the deal. Finally got the time off work to go play with the car a little.

Yesterday, i was able to get it started. Apparently, on of the wires from the igniter to the leading coil had pulled out a bit, and the plugs were not seeing strong enough spark to ignite the mixture.... so everytime I tried to start it, it just flooded more...

Anyway, pushed the little wire back in, did the unflooding procedures, and it fired right up! Lots of white smoke for a good 2-3 minutes (atf).

After a minute or so, i also noticed white smoke coming out of engine bay from around the turbo area. At first i thought it was an exhaust leak, but it smelled like something was burning, so now I'm thinking oil (have had an oil leak in that general area recently).

Thats when I noticed that my water temps were a bit too high, and they were still rising (right around 110C), so I quickly shut the car off. Went to the front of the car and noticed that there was a huge puddle of coolant right under the overflow tank. (fans work fine, so I know thats not the problem). It looks like all the coolant lines are intact (even the one to the overflow bottle), so I'm not sure where it all came from.

I added over 0.5 gallons of water to the system today (all the distilled water I had), and it still didn't fill up the system. Still not sure where the big leak is...


Also tried starting the car today, but no dice.... almost sounds like its flooded again.

Maybe bad coil or igniter? How can I check these?

Any other ideas?


TIA,
Rob

MOSTIN

At the present moment I have the similar problem in my car, and this is what i did to temporary fix it, so I still have the problem but it is working ok for now: Remove the fuel pump relay and put a jumper wire from the forward right connector to the rear left corner connector thats standing looking down at the car.

About the coolant problem i cant help you sorry

twinturborx7pete

iTrader: (3)

double check all your coolant lines, there are some that are UNDER the turbos, that are hardlines, maybe they ruptured? 110C is unheard of.. dont' drive it until you locate your problem.

saxyman990

pete- yeah, i kinda checked those out, and it doesn't seem like any of them have ruptured... but I'lll probably have to start ripping stuff off in order to get a better look.

Also think i forgot to mention that the idle was really high after I got it started - right at about 2500 RPM. Thought this was odd, cause I have a pfc that usually controls idle fine.

Rx7oneluv

I don't wanna be this guy, but your problem maybe due to seals in your engine, like mine. I have to do a rebuild. Have you tried taking out all your plugs and cranking it over? If you getting white smoke to come out of the plug holes, your in trouble. Welcome to my world, its rebuild time. Well thats atleast what everyone I've ever talked to has said. Your seals more than likely over heated sometime and coolant has now found a new home in your engine where it doesn't belong. If im wrong please inform me....I don't wanted to do a rebuild myself if I don't have too.



Peace One Luv

saxyman990

anything is possible, but that is extremely unlikely.

The car has NEVER overheated in its entire life. A couple of days ago was the highest it has ever gotten to.

Car has always started perfectly for me, until my pump went out. Fortunately, i was just at idle when that heppened. Then, a couple of days ago once I replaced the pump, it fired right up again, and other than a high idle and getting a little warm, it ran perfectly. Didn't even run the car hard at all in the past month, and I seriously doubt the seals could just blow themselves while putting around town with only 50,000 miles on the odometer.

No smoke out of plug holes, and the car doesn't even blow smoke out the exhaust when running (other than for like 30 seconds after starting, and a couple of days ago, due to the ATF).

again, its possible, but i really don't think the motor is blown.


When I checked the oil yesterday, it had a slight gas smell to it though.... I know that when a pison car floods, the gas creeps back down into the oil pan. Therefore, its always a good idea to change oil after a piston engine floods. Not sure about the rotary. Maybe this is part of my problem? Gas in the oil?

Rx7oneluv

Your more than likely correct that the engine isn't blown. Its just the fact you said you have smoke, white smoke if I remember, which is coolant or water either in engine or exhaust. Maybe I'm having the same problem as you and am misdiagnosing my car. Any other input would be greatly appriciated. Only difference is I get a good puff of white smoke when I remove all my plugs and crank it over. More input from others will surely make your difficult situation have an easy fix. Good luck!
Get that 4wheel rocket up and running, so you can get all those good looks on the street.

duckyjp

In terms of your coolant problem...I went though the same thing. You probably have a leak somewhere in the system which is letting air in and forcing the coolant out the overflow reservior. I am sure you know this much. I began replacing a few old hoses and it was still happening. Eventually I tracked the sound to the water pump body and I could see coolant spewing out. Turned out the gasket between the water pump body and the engine was shot to hell - all crispy and crumbly. The problem is it is really hard to see down there while the car is running and you have to tear a lot of stuff out to get there. Anyway, I replaced that gasket and the gasket between the water pump and the water pump body and I have been fine ever since. Granted it took awhile before the leak got big enough for me to see/hear where it was coming from. Depending on how many miles you have on your FD it might be worth checking these gaskets. They are only a few bucks. I have about 80k on my car and the one gasket was dead. It was a real relief to not have to constantly worry about overheating and carry extra coolant around just in case. I am not sure why this problem would be related to the fuel pump though.

snguyen444

Get a body bag and call a priest.