serge1

Greetings,


I have changed my mine about going Single (T04S).
I can not deal with the lag of a single. So I am looking for upgraded twins.

I have the following options:

-99 Spec twins
-Pettit high flow
-M2 ball bearing


So what's the final verdict about the M2?

Some said they are crap and others like them.

I can't decide between M2 and 99 Spec turbo.

Any advice?

Thanks
Serge

95 RX7 with: downpipe, bonez cat, Apex GT cat back,
PFC, Apexi Intake. Denso fuel pump.

Team503

I would really like to hear everyone's opinion on this, as I'd been fairly set on the M2s (which are just ported and ball-bearing'ed Hitachi HT-12s).

Anyone have flow charts, compressor maps, or anything else for either set?

artguy

hey guys...its looking like the tuning probs will be solved..the new datalogit update is fantastic...I literally just drive around with it plugged in and it tells me the afr for each and every fuel cel and then its just a matter of adjustment...drive again...adjustment....then dyno fine tune... It looks like a couple more weeks of tuning...at least...but the light is at the end of the tunnel.

Im very happy with the m2 set...spoolup is fantastic...the power down low is very nice...they sound great ( a little louder and more zingy than stock) ...definitely a worthy upgrade...they are very torquey down low...got rid of my low end power loss caused by my streetport..entirely.

my gripes are mostly with tuning issues...however I was also given misinfo from a couple different vendors on what fuel pump and injectors were needed.... which the answer now is the bosch pump and 1600s if you want to run more than say 17lbs....or two pumps as rikki suggested to me....

I run the 1300s and the nippondenso which wont be enuff fuel for full boost on those turbos...which should give out about 400hp

you need to run at least 15lbs on those larger wheels...which are not hitatchi by the way...they are garrett gt30 ballistics...less than that and they are not in their peak operating range.

dont run them without installing the oil line restrictor pills...the only gripe guys have had with them is that they leaked..which was solved by their restrictor pills that come with the turbos now...if you run them without the pills they will leak...run them with the pills and they will not leak.

my set came back looking great...very clean...well done.

good luck...I will post numbers when i get them...I never knew how patient I would have to be tuning this car...I had hoped a shop would be able to take care of it...no luck.


jason

PS..you will also need a 3 bar map sensor which i think you get from GM....if you plan on running more than 16.3 lbs of boost. the boost control kit for the pfc if you go with the apexi unit would be necessary for running 20 lbs as well.

artguy

ive looked for flow charts etc...nobody has em...Ill ask m2 and see if they can find out that info for me...

will post it if i come across it.

j

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Has anyone gotten a set of these things on a dyno yet?

capt. bill1

Yes, I have and the $64,000 question has been answered.

Namely, why the hell was I only getting 286 RWHP with all my mods and the M2 high flow ball bearing turbos.

Answer, low compression in the front rotor (less than 85 psi) and a cracked apex seal with even lower compression (lowest pulse of 57 psi) on the rear rotor. Now I don't feel so bad about ONLY making 286 rwhp.

Now it's time to get that Cosmo motor rebuilt and head for the 400+ rwhp mark.

Joker

i thought don't be a rikki was banned?

need upgraded fuel rails if going with 1600-cc secondary injectors

lots of bandaids for this one

should go JDM '99-'02 rs/rz/spirit r twins

skunks

so the datalogic can record wideband numbers???

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Lots of talk, no real numbers.
Nothing close towards 400 rwhp anyways.
You get two rebuilt turbos on a stock manifold for $3,000 +
With no warranty!
What happens when it comes time to rebuild them???
Time to buy a new set???

What happens if (when) M2 goes out of business???

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Is there any big secret about what M2 does to the turbos?

They're basically Garrett GT30 ballistics right? Why doesn't someone else (BNR) just offer the same conversion with out the M2 premium price?

They look like great units, but i agree that 3k is a little steep, especially w/ no warranty. But if BNR or someone else could offer the same kit for say, 2k, they'd be a very attractive option.

rotorbrain

theres a lot of engineering involved in the way those m2 turbos are setup. thats why they are so expensive. BNR has a set of turbos out that are absolutely amazing. i have experienced them myself. they are not ball bearing, but definately something different. contact bryan for more info. . . ill let him give that out. hehe.

paul

kwikrx7

I don't think there's any doubt that the M2s will put down good numbers - artguy has already testified to the dramatic difference between M2s and the stockers. I think the only thing hindering the M2s is like glassman said - $3K and no warranty. That's why 2 people on the forum have them. Can't wait to see dyno sheets.

BNR twins will put down great numbers and spool just as fast (dynamic seal upgrades) - only $2K and 1 year warranty - good customer service.

If I were in the market for new turbos/single turbo I'd consider either the M2s or BNRs since you won't have the lag of a single - but I'd always be leary of no warranty with the M2s

Joker

good money's on brand new japan spec twins $2900

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

So $3000 for a full ball bearing upgrade that makes significantly more power ISN'T a good deal, but $3k for a set with very little power gain IS? I've never heard any evidence to suggest that the J spec turbos make much more power than the originals.

Sounds more like j-spec worship than smart money. If everyones arguement is that the M2's are "still" stock turbos that use the restrictive stock manifold... well, so are the 99's.... and they're actually slightly smaller. I've never heard of the jspecs making anything near the power that the M2s or BNRs can.

kwikrx7

I remember Tim Benton saying his 99 j-specs spooled 200 rpms faster and there is a slight power gain - 10 hp or so - they are new but the turbos that I got back from BNR looked like they just came from the factory

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

99 J-Spec's spool quicker and make more power, they can also be had for around $2,400 brand new (if you know where to look).
If you ever need to rebuild them, you would have a better chance then if the M2's went.
There is no proof (as of yet) that the M2 Turbos make any more power then the stock HT-12 turbos!!!
If you want to spend $3,200 on a set of turbos that will make the same power that your stockers will, be my guest.
I'd go with a GT3540, RX6 or BB T04E myself.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

yep, the 99 spec turbos did spool to 12 psi faster than my stock turbos (not worn out since they only have about 60K miles total on the car). I get 12 psi by 2800 psi on the PFC. My best rough tuning, going by just the stock O2 sensor netting 316 at the wheels on 12 psi, no porting to the engine, bunch of bolt ons. Same rough tuning with the 99's netted a peak of 322 at 12 psi, but across the rpms band it would go from 8 to 10 hp better than stock with the peak being 6 rwhp better. My best run at a tad over 13 psi with the stock units was 334 and 296 torque. I'll see what the 99 turbos do at 13 compared to stock after I get my tranny grinding issues solved. I think it might add a couple more HP at 13, maybe 10 to 11 peak HP better and 10 to 12 across most of the range. Not a huge increase but an increase non the less with better throttle response. Not to mention I got a great price from Jesse Lau with no miles on them If I had to do it again and I hope I don't, I'd more than likely go with BNR stage 2's in seq. format.

Tim

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Thats what I'm talking about!!!!

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Wow, time flies when I saw the last time something was posted here. I was set to dyno the car this past thursday and the dyno's air brake messed up 2 cars before mine and wouldn't release after coming to a stop. I'm going to head back this thursday and try the 99 turbos out at 13 psi and compare it to my stock run at 13 psi (334 rwhp). Then turn them up to 15 psi and see what it does.

Tim