$100T2

iTrader: (1)

Now, before you guys scream "search" at me, read the whole thing:

The car needs a rebuild. When it's started, white/grey smoke comes out the back.

Therefore, I'm assuming I can't test drive it at all. According to the owner, the body is perfect, no accidents, the interior is "mint". Thus, I have to worry about mechanicals. Is there any way to test the other components without being able to drive the car? Or, should I go ahead and try to take it for a quick spin, since I know already the engine is coming out for a rebuild? I've read Rob Robinette's 3rd gen page, and a lot of the things he said to check for, I can't check.

How would any of you guys handle it?

FormulaRX

well it all depends on if the owner lets you drive it or not. I would be skeptical if he didn't, because both of you know the engine's bad anyway. Aside from the engine, you can tell a lot from driving the car in terms of how well the brakes work, suspension, transmission, creaks/rattles, etc so driving before buying is a must as long as the car is running. Can't drive a non-running car and that's the only time it won't matter. If he doesn't let you drive the car, at least ride in the car with him driving it. I would have an experienced rotary mechanic go along with you to test the engine's compression. If you can't, at least bring a boost gauge along with you to hook up and see if you are getting the 10/8/10 boost pattern...would be ideal to drive the car before buying though

alberto_mg

if the engine starts and runs, drive it. i bought one with a blown engine running on one rotor and drove it to make sure the tranny shifted properly and that the car tracked straight.

POS7

does this mean you'll be posting relationship advice on the 3rd gen forum J/K

I'm curious what evidence is there that the car needs a rebuild?
Does it have a bad coolant seal? The smoke could be due to the car running rich (unlikely though because of the color) and would be smelling like gas.
Does it have bad apex seals?

You might want to take a look at the turbos to determine their condition.
Test the tranny for grinding/slippage
Also cleanliness of the car is an indicator of how well its maintained. A very dirty engine bay with leaking fluids/ dirty air filter/black oil are indicators of a car that is not well maintained.

I think mileage is an important factor in determining the integrity of engine bay components. However, due to the age of the car, may of the sensors, hoses, struts, etc need to be replaced because the cars out there are all 50k+. Hopefully the owner has maintained his car by replacing these components.

oneflytrini

iTrader: (1)

Isnt that an indication of a coolant leak? I'd be careful....

I can't wait to see $100T2 to start posting in the 3rd Gen Section

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

AFAIK the chassis has about 85k miles on it. The owner told me "It needs a rebuild" and says there is a blown apex seal, so I'm assuming it needs a rebuild.

As far as the relationship advice, that stays in the Lounge where it belongs. I try not to post trivial **** in the specific forums without searching first.


Now, guys, let's say I buy this car. Let's say I pull the engine. What all should I do while the engine is out? I know there are the basic "reliability mods", but is there anything that is absolutely essential to do while the engine is out? I figure that if it's coming out and getting a rebuild, I'll take that opportunity to have it streetported. I might as well upgrade the turbos at the same time. Anyone have any experience with the BNR stage 3 twins?

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

And remember, I'm just telling you what the owner told me over the phone. I haven't been to see it yet.

0100

Your in for some work, and I hope you can do the work yourself, because if you have a shop do all the work... I would suggest you just buy a clean running FD.

Just my advice.

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

The price on this one is $5500. One of the guys on the forum here is willing to help me rebuild the engine. Seems like a good deal.

DigDug

Yeah, if the engine starts, test drive it. You said it blows "smoke" when it starts up, so I'm guessing it will start.

Bring a compression tester. If it reads anywhere close to even across the chambers on both rotors, replace the leading plugs and then try firing it up again.

DigDug

Damn, that's pretty cheap. Is this guy at all knowledgeable about these cars?

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

It's a woman, and she's owned it for the last 6 years. I think $5500 is a pretty decent price even if it needs a full rebuild.

DigDug

I'd say $5500 is a good price if it does in fact need a rebuild. This could be one of those "they don't really know what they have" situations...

Definitely do the comp. test and bring a couple leading plugs with you, just in case.

0100

$5500 for a FD that needs a rebuild, isn't exactly cheap. You can find them cheaper, but you can also find them for more.

Calculate all your costs so you know what your getting into.

DigDug

If you want one that's in good condition otherwise, then $5500 is cheap. If it ends up running for a while before it needs the rebuild, then assuming the chassis is in good shape, it would be an excellent deal.

I've seen FDs with blown engines go cheaper, but they always have lots of other problems. I'd pay the extra money to get a good solid chassis. Otherwise, you get nickel-and-dimed to death on all of the other issues with the car.

0100

True, if it runs at all drive it to see if the gearbox/clutch is good like alberto_mg suggested.

keynote22

$5500 is a great price for a good car with a running motor, Around here shells go for $7-9k with no motor. My car is in fantastic shape, has a slight coolant seal leak and is for sale for a lot more than $9k. So you have a good deal there.

test drive it, the tranny might be in bad shape (search 5th gear synchro) clutch might be shot, turbos might be shot and leaking like crazy.

Blow apex seal means the car would most likely idle horrible, sound like hell, and be buring all sorts of black smoke.

Blown coolant seal and the car may run and idle fine but burn white smoke at start up...which may or may not continue. Depending on the size of the collant seal leak you might be able to drive it for some time. You can search for other coolant seal tests if you like.



What should you do while replacing the motor? A hose job, a light weight flywheel and high performance clutch. New wiring harness. Stock turbos have probably had it as well.


What you do depends on your budget and eventual goals. For approx $13k you can put in a 450 hp motor with all the trimmings: ported motor, single turbo, intercooler, exhaust, ecu, injectors, new clutch etc... turn key ready to go


For approx $4-6k you can have a stock to slightly ported motor put in with some trimmings.

Relaibility mods will run you $1500 to $3k depending on what kind of parts you get and how many you install. Ecu another $1k

If you are going BNR then you should do a full system upgrade to handle the new power which is towards 8,9,10k range.

These are really rough estimates based on the quotes I am getting right now.

The bad thing about it is that if you install a ported motor then you are almost forced to upgrade everything to handle the extra power. you can slightly port (street port) a motor and keep a lot of stock stuff. Depends on what you want to do. Its cheaper and better to do it all at once but usually prohibitively expensive. GL

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

The only other problems are that the weather stripping on the drivers side door needs to be replaced and a key broke off in the drivers side door, so it is re-keyed and she didn't do both sides. Other than that, no accidents, and the interior is supposedly "mint".

It's a base model. Can someone give me a quick rundown on the differences between base, r1, and r2?

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

So if it's a coolant seal, does that require a rebuild as well?

DigDug

Not as urgent as an apex seal. You could drive with a "blown" coolant seal for a long time, depending on the severity of the leak. Aside from fouling plugs, difficulty starting, and white vapor from the exhaust at startup/idle, the engine could still run and make just as much power.

But eventually yes, you would want to rebuild it. If it's a coolant seal, the housings should still be in decent shape as well.

DigDug

Oh yeah, when you go to check out the car, start the engine with the coolant filler cap off. Look for bubbles rising in the coolant in the filler neck. That's your indication of a blown coolant seal.

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

Thanks DigDug. She said it's been sitting since last fall, and when she jump started it this morning, it had a "cloud of white smoke" from the back. I asked her if it had a bad apex seal, and she said it did. She also said she's owned several 7's, so I assume she knows the difference between an apex and a coolant seal, but then again, maybe not.

So if it's idling smoothly with just the white smoke, I could probably make it 60 miles home with it rather than towing it, right?

alberto_mg

you probably can but it won't be easy and you'll probably get pulled over if a cop sees you stumbling down the road blowing cloulds of smoke. i drove mine about 20 miles on one rotor. good practice with heel-toe downshifting

if it is that rust bucket in new hampshire that the gspot guy posted pics about you might want to reconsider. that car looks beat to freaking **** aka a serious money pit.

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

Nope, this is in Massachusetts, near Boston.

gspot

Sorry to tell you but it's the same one I was looking at. The car does not start at all anymore. The engine is pretty much dead and needs to be replaced. Who knows what else needs to be done since the car is not in drivable condition...

Is it still worth the money to do a new engine replacements on this car even though I can't test drive it?