SMIC ducting? Does mine look bad? - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002) 1993-2002 Discussion including performance modifications and Technical Support Sections.

SMIC ducting? Does mine look bad?

Reply

 
 
 
Old 05-14-18, 01:37 PM
  #1  
93 R1, 94 Supra TT, 06 XR
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
mkiv98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gardena, California
Posts: 389
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
SMIC ducting? Does mine look bad?

So here is the ducting on my SMIC, but I am still getting crazy high IATs (like 60c and up)




Is there anything I can do to improve this set up? I have a 99 spec bumper and I will go vmount later on when I mount my single, but for now I just want the car to be track-able for the next couple of months. I'll be wrapping piping and the SMIC with some DEI gold foil.
mkiv98 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 01:53 PM
  #2  
Rare for a Reason
iTrader: (13)
 
Narfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dagobah
Posts: 5,164
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Use duct tape to cover the open battery tray vent.

But, the stock duct is not taking full advantage of the custom IC core. The pettit medium duct is commonly trimmed to fit custom SMICs similar to yours. Or you could trim and rework your existing duct with fiberglass or sheet metal. Or, you could fab your own duct.
Narfle is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 01:54 PM
  #3  
brap brap brap
iTrader: (2)
 
evo_koa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Huntsville, Al
Posts: 1,165
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
You can block the opening that is past your accumulator, and add two inches of ducting in the bumper opening.
evo_koa is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 02:31 PM
  #4  
Don't worry be happy...
iTrader: (1)
 
Montego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6,291
Thanked 40 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by mkiv98 View Post
So here is the ducting on my SMIC, but I am still getting crazy high IATs (like 60c and up)

Is there anything I can do to improve this set up? I have a 99 spec bumper and I will go vmount later on when I mount my single, but for now I just want the car to be track-able for the next couple of months. I'll be wrapping piping and the SMIC with some DEI gold foil.

Describe the conditions that you are seeing the high AITs? At what temp do you start at? How many times do you floor it before it goes into the high 60's, meaning are you constantly beating on it or is it after a couple of WOTs? What is the ambient air temperature?

I'm currently converting to a Vmount but my previous set up was a pettit style large race SMIC with a duct. My AIT's hovered around the mid 30's and after a few WOT runs I'd be in the mid 40's with an ambient air temp of mid 70's. Not too bad. I've been meaning to put it up for sale on here so some else can enjoy it... Gotta get around to it though lol
Montego is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 04:11 PM
  #5  
93 R1, 94 Supra TT, 06 XR
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
mkiv98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gardena, California
Posts: 389
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Montego View Post
Describe the conditions that you are seeing the high AITs? At what temp do you start at? How many times do you floor it before it goes into the high 60's, meaning are you constantly beating on it or is it after a couple of WOTs? What is the ambient air temperature?

I'm currently converting to a Vmount but my previous set up was a pettit style large race SMIC with a duct. My AIT's hovered around the mid 30's and after a few WOT runs I'd be in the mid 40's with an ambient air temp of mid 70's. Not too bad. I've been meaning to put it up for sale on here so some else can enjoy it... Gotta get around to it though lol
Could I see pics of how you have the duct? does everyone mean extend the duct a little farther than it is, like down and to the front of the bumper opening?

Just driving around say on the freeway I can keep the temps in the 40s, at big willow it was like one or two laps before it heated up to 50s, and then sitting in traffic and such it gets up to the 60s. ambient also around 75-85F during these days. I'm also going to mount a feed style vented hood.
mkiv98 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 06:10 PM
  #6  
Double-A
iTrader: (1)
 
Aarkaah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 107
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Curious? What smic is that and does your ducting cover its entire face?
If not, itís easier to fab one up that fits completely with card board and take it to a machine shop to render an aluminum finished piece. Use the dei tape you talked about. Also look at extending the stock scoop at the mouth area. (Only if you have an upgraded rad imo.)I went through a similar experience recently with a greedy smic. Pay for the fabricated unit. Itís much cheaper and better than anything we can do. Look up my posts. It may help. Wish you the best.
Aarkaah is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 06:22 PM
  #7  
Don't worry be happy...
iTrader: (1)
 
Montego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6,291
Thanked 40 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by mkiv98 View Post
Could I see pics of how you have the duct? does everyone mean extend the duct a little farther than it is, like down and to the front of the bumper opening?
Yup. It extends into the bumper opening.







Originally Posted by mkiv98 View Post
Just driving around say on the freeway I can keep the temps in the 40s, at big willow it was like one or two laps before it heated up to 50s, and then sitting in traffic and such it gets up to the 60s. ambient also around 75-85F during these days. I'm also going to mount a feed style vented hood.
Actually IMO that sounds about right given the size of the IC and conditions. Very similar to my PFS unit as on a 75F day: Cruising in the freeway I would see mid 40's, after a few WOT's and or siting in traffic temps would go into the 50's. However, I never saw 60's sitting in traffic. After I got my new set up with the large IC, my temps dropped about 10 deg C which is huge. I should note that I went single at the same time so I'm sure that helped.

Last edited by Montego; 05-14-18 at 06:33 PM.
Montego is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 06:54 PM
  #8  
Put it in the microwave!
iTrader: (19)
 
kensin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,358
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
I forgot who said this, but its best for smic FD to stay on the streets and with relaxed driving style. Few wot here and there is ok, once you go on the track where you constantly working the twins... it gets hot very fast and stays hot. Doesn't help that our track atmosphere in CA is just HOT in general.
kensin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 07:23 PM
  #9  
Rare for a Reason
iTrader: (13)
 
Narfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dagobah
Posts: 5,164
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
The FD won endurance races with an SMIC. Vmounts are cool, but not "necessary" by any stretch.

Narfle is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 07:28 PM
  #10  
Cheap Bastard
iTrader: (2)
 
adam c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Luis Obispo, Ca
Posts: 8,285
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by mkiv98 View Post
So here is the ducting on my SMIC, but I am still getting crazy high IATs (like 60c and up).
Do you have a second oil cooler? That will help a lot more than you think.
adam c is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 07:36 PM
  #11  
93 R1, 94 Supra TT, 06 XR
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
mkiv98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gardena, California
Posts: 389
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by adam c View Post
Do you have a second oil cooler? That will help a lot more than you think.
I do, the car is an R1. the car originally had your intake mod, which I am going back to as well
mkiv98 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 07:38 PM
  #12  
93 R1, 94 Supra TT, 06 XR
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
mkiv98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gardena, California
Posts: 389
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Aarkaah View Post
Curious? What smic is that and does your ducting cover its entire face?
If not, itís easier to fab one up that fits completely with card board and take it to a machine shop to render an aluminum finished piece. Use the dei tape you talked about. Also look at extending the stock scoop at the mouth area. (Only if you have an upgraded rad imo.)I went through a similar experience recently with a greedy smic. Pay for the fabricated unit. Itís much cheaper and better than anything we can do. Look up my posts. It may help. Wish you the best.
It's an SR motorsports one that the previous owner modified by cutting the endtanks off and welding bigger ones on. The ducting covers 95% of the face but also isn't air tight sealed, just has the plastic duct cut in a way that fits over it. Do you think the DEI tape should also be used on the hot side IC pipe and the crossover pipe?
mkiv98 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 07:43 PM
  #13  
Rare for a Reason
iTrader: (13)
 
Narfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dagobah
Posts: 5,164
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Skip the gold foil.

Last edited by Narfle; 05-14-18 at 08:50 PM.
Narfle is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 08:27 PM
  #14  
Double-A
iTrader: (1)
 
Aarkaah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 107
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
^ what he said. Just the duct. To seal the parts that may have holes or after you plug the large holes with a thin sheet of metal. And rivets.
Why not just get a real smic? Seems you are relying on a half measure from the previous owner. You canít be sure it even flows right. Get a good aftermarket smic and duct it properly. No open face. Take a mock up to a machine shop. Should be like $60 bucks. Just my .02 cents.
Aarkaah is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 08:39 PM
  #15  
Junior Member
 
RW Atelier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ojai, CA
Posts: 40
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Interesting topic. I recently went for a canyon drive after some modifications. My car was running a Blitz SMIC, fluidyne rad, single stock oil cooler, and Adamís airbox at 15psi boost before and now it has a GReddy VMIC kit and Setrab dual 25-row oil cooler with 12psi boost.

With the current setup, I still have IAT beyond 63įC after driving uphill using mostly third gear 4000~6000 RPM. Water temp around 90 before engine cut. It was on a particularly hot day (over 90įF) and the road had some large elevation. Itís my concern that having air filters in the hot engine bay and aluminum (not ideal for heat insulation but good for sustaining stress of high boost) IC pipings causes higher IAT. (My IAT sensor reacts slowly too.) Itís particularly tricky because I am running a zenki (pre99) bumper with small frontal area and factory hood. I assume the VMIC + large oil cooler setup makes more sense on a more modified car that provides adequate airflow. (Not a fan of any aftermarket front bumper or hood though...) Of course, many on the forum run without those just fine. Unfortunately I donít have IAT obtained under the same driving situation pre-VMIC to compare. I would appreciate some advice and please point out if I have some misconceptions.

Ryan
RW Atelier is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 09:09 PM
  #16  
Double-A
iTrader: (1)
 
Aarkaah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 107
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by RW Atelier View Post
Interesting topic. I recently went for a canyon drive after some modifications. My car was running a Blitz SMIC, fluidyne rad, single stock oil cooler, and Adamís airbox at 15psi boost before and now it has a GReddy VMIC kit and Setrab dual 25-row oil cooler with 12psi boost.

With the current setup, I still have IAT beyond 63įC after driving uphill using mostly third gear 4000~6000 RPM. Water temp around 90 before engine cut. It was on a particularly hot day (over 90įF) and the road had some large elevation. Itís my concern that having air filters in the hot engine bay and aluminum (not ideal for heat insulation but good for sustaining stress of high boost) IC pipings causes higher IAT. (My IAT sensor reacts slowly too.) Itís particularly tricky because I am running a zenki (pre99) bumper with small frontal area and factory hood. I assume the VMIC + large oil cooler setup makes more sense on a more modified car that provides adequate airflow. (Not a fan of any aftermarket front bumper or hood though...) Of course, many on the forum run without those just fine. Unfortunately I donít have IAT obtained under the same driving situation pre-VMIC to compare. I would appreciate some advice and please point out if I have some misconceptions.

Ryan
Well I have no vmic experience but I was under the impression vmic was the best setup. However with with 60s in intake temps Iím not sure what to say. I am seeing 40s to 55s max on a greedy smic at 12lbs boost pushed hard. Heat soak sucks. But hey we havenít hit 90s yet. 70s/80s max northeast.
Aarkaah is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 09:40 PM
  #17  
Junior Member
 
RW Atelier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ojai, CA
Posts: 40
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts

Here is the engine bay picture. I believe the resultant high IAT is due to the underflow IC, aluminum piping, and air filters. What's more, A/C condenser is kept so there is even less direct airflow to the IC... The stock undertray blocks the radiator fan from blowing downwards, potentially reducing cooling efficiency. However on a cool day after 3 dyno pulls I get 45℃ IAT. With that being said, I don't think a right-off-shelf VMIC will be an optimum solution that solves all problems immediately. It's still best to design the car as a system, just from my experience.
RW Atelier is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-18, 11:30 PM
  #18  
Cheap Bastard
iTrader: (2)
 
adam c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Luis Obispo, Ca
Posts: 8,285
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Thats a nice looking engine bay Ryan, but I dont like the "hot air" intake. It seems like you should have some sort of insulating shield between the v-mount, and the intake filters.
adam c is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 12:32 AM
  #19  
Junior Member
 
RW Atelier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ojai, CA
Posts: 40
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Exactly what I am thinking Seeing if I can fabricate a heat shield of some kind. Also wondering if I need to replace/relocate the IAT sensor in case of heat soak.

Adam, I will share some photos of my canyon run with you later. The road was fantastic
RW Atelier is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 03:52 AM
  #20  
Viable fossil
iTrader: (12)
 
Sgtblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 9,805
Thanked 91 Times in 79 Posts
Originally Posted by adam c View Post
Do you have a second oil cooler? That will help a lot more than you think.
I agree the additional oil cooler is needed and helps...with engine cooling. But I don't see it doing a lot for IATs.
Sgtblue is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 04:00 AM
  #21  
93 R1, 94 Supra TT, 06 XR
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
mkiv98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gardena, California
Posts: 389
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Ok guys I found the problem. While wrapping my intercooler with the DEI gold, at the very end I notice something deep in the end tank...



There's a ******* kids underwear stuffed in the hot side of the smic! This has caused me a ton of issues with tuning, boost control, IAT issues, etc. Also explains why some days the car is fast as hell and some days where it doesn't want to move.

Check your intercoolers guys...and I'll be giving the previous owner an interesting call tomorrow...
mkiv98 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 05:12 AM
  #22  
Double-A
iTrader: (1)
 
Aarkaah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 107
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Whoa! Are you for real? How long have you had the car? Iím surprised you havenít blown the engine.

Similar note. When replacing my radiator I found a wrench socket in my rad fan shroud that had dislodged one fan and was slowly cutting into the back of my rad fins. Also found a bolt bolt in my intake cover.

Moral of the story... take a good look at your engine bay after you buy.

Glad you found it sooner than later.

Aarkaah is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 05:58 AM
  #23  
93 R1, 94 Supra TT, 06 XR
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
mkiv98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gardena, California
Posts: 389
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Aarkaah View Post
Whoa! Are you for real? How long have you had the car? I’m surprised you haven’t blown the engine.

Similar note. When replacing my radiator I found a wrench socket in my rad fan shroud that had dislodged one fan and was slowly cutting into the back of my rad fins. Also found a bolt bolt in my intake cover.

Moral of the story... take a good look at your engine bay after you buy.

Glad you found it sooner than later.
I've had the car for about a year now, but I've barely been able to drive it, doing not much more than driving back and forth to my tuner after fixing one thing at a time hoping it could finally be tuned. We finally got the car running well enough that I went to willow springs raceway, but after a couple of sessions my car didn't want to go into full boost anymore, so I just took it easy the rest of the day practicing lines and braking zones. This led me to finding that IATs build up super quick and then getting limited on boost. The car has always run super rich, for some unknown reason...I don't think it's ever leaned out.

Now I'm wondering if I need to get retuned again, since maybe now things will be different? I'll give my tuner a call first thing in the morning.

Usually I don't think to remove the intercooler and radiator or look inside every pipe after buying a car, but I guess you really never know...I'm also surprised the engine didn't blow, and I hate to think of all the extra wear caused by this. All I can picture is maybe the previous owner had the intercooler laying around and his kid stuffed something into it? Who knows.

Last edited by mkiv98; 05-15-18 at 06:05 AM.
mkiv98 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 06:08 AM
  #24  
Rare for a Reason
iTrader: (13)
 
Narfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dagobah
Posts: 5,164
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Yes, if it was tuned with the underwear clogging the intercooler you should get a retune after removing them. By the way, that RP intercooler is not modified. I would distrust everything the PO ever said at this point.
Narfle is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-18, 06:17 AM
  #25  
Viable fossil
iTrader: (12)
 
Sgtblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 9,805
Thanked 91 Times in 79 Posts
No instruction sheet on maintaining an IC afaik, but I pull mine out at least once a year to clean it...inside and out.
Sgtblue is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: SMIC ducting? Does mine look bad?


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.