Hi everyone.
I'm starting to process of trying to simplify my 96 fd's vaccum system so that I can fit bigger injectors/a newer fuel rail.
They came with the rat's nest box and I wasn't a 100% sure if the same things can be remove/ things can be rerouted.
At the moment, going to start going through the vaccum diagrams and see what is same.

Wondering if anyone has done this before on the later year fds.

 

To disassemble that box in hopes for a simplified sequential set up will not end well. The "black box" is consolidated and as simple as it can be. The simplified set up with the standard rats nest makes sense because of what the rats nest is and how it's set up. Use the black box as it is or switch over to individual solenoids from an earlier year. It would require wiring because i dont thing the plugs will reach.

Theres no reason to try and simplify the black box. It's already simplified.

 

Hm, I'm thinking the same. I'm uncertain how people install bigger injectors with the twins on the 96+ fds since there isn't much space.

 

Bigger injectors aren't literally bigger.

 

Out of curiosity, why do you think you need bigger injectors for the stock twins?



~ GW

 

I have 50,000 KM over 8 years on a supersimplified black box delete set up, with a 16 bit power FC.

I had rebuilt the complete sequential set-up after the PO had done a super delete but continued with the stock ECU (this does not work).

I needed to have a complete engine rebuild after a local shop hooked up the coils incorrectly * (there were other unseen issues).

But no shop would support a recovery of the OEM sequential set-up, so I went with the simplified parallel set-up.

Regretfully you lose the low end boost build up that is a significant feature of the sequential set-up.

I partially compensate for this with a lightweight flywheel and a 4.3 rear-end.

(As an owner of a 96+ FD watch out for shops not being aware of the change in location order of the coils.)

 

If you have not already done so, download the JDM manuals here:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...002-a-1127911/

The password is embedded in the file name.

Find the update manual for the 1996 model year. It will show details of the black box set-up.

Also the parts manual for version 5 cars has detailed exploded view diagrams of the vacuum system.

 

I’m aware of that, I purchased the JP3 Motorsports kit and want to give myself as much room as possible for the new fuel rail and other bits.
Replicating a friends build that made the 400+ hp I was looking for, he has a 93 so his vacuum line simplification was figured out.
Do you know what parts of the system the shop deleted? I’m trying to trace the vacuum diagram and figure out what needs to go.

 

I frankly don't know, and they are coy about explaining it to me.

There is very little left of the original sequential and emission set up.

I recently had a shop replace what was left of the vacuum lines as they had turned to dust after eight years, and the power FC was hunting madly.

If you plan to keep the black box, likely a good idea to replace it with new (about US$500).

We have seen cascading solenoid failures on cars with old black boxes, and it is a PIA to replace the solenoids one at a time.

PS, the parts manual has a more realistic representation of the actual vacuum line set up.

 

Your friend made 400+ on the stock twins?

 

You will need more fuel than the factory injectors can supply to reach 400 rwhp. You will also need a Turbo(s) that can supply enough pounds of air as well. If you’re planning on keeping the power Fc, I would suggest leaving the primary injectors in place and use a step up rail. I’m not exactly sure what your end plan is or which components you’re planning on using so I really can’t comment. I will offer you this option tho for the step up rail. It will give you the ability to install larger secondary injectors that are capable of reaching your target horsepower, it retains the OEM fuel temp sensor, it works with all of the emissions components, even the factory fuel line connections. I currently use this option.
https://www.raceonly.com.au/product/...l-step-up-kit/

If you plan on simplifying the magic box. You would simply cap off the connections that are not being used. Unlike the earlier series where you can actually remove the solenoids.


~ GW

 

Appreciate the info.
Would it make sense to reuse the fuel rails from the jp3 kit?
https://jp3motorsports.com/products/...em-engine-side
I have it already so don't want to get another kit if I don't have to.
Otherwise I was going to just get the Full Function Engineering kit
https://fullfunctioneng.com/product/...l-step-up-kit/.

For simplifying the vacuum system, do I just remove the air control value and then at the rat's nest box I cap the lines going to the acv?

 

The jp3 fuel system is a great kit. It does require you to remove the acv. You did not specify whether or not you’re planning to retain the emissions related equipment or not so I cannot answer your question. I have never tried to install the JP3 kit on a black box car either. It gets very tight down there in the primary area. You could shoot them an email and ask.

The full function engineering unit does not have a fuel temp sensor port. If using the power Fc and not retaining the fuel temp sensor, you will lose the hot start enrichment function. It uses the fuel time sensor to calculate whether activating the prc is needed or not. Also, it is used to compensate for the fuel density changes when the fuel heats up. If I remember correctly, it can be up to 4% off, which is not really a small margin. Maybe you’re ok with that, but I personally am definitely not.

The rail I suggested is everything that the FFE kit is and more. There is very few secondary rails that have a fuel temp sensor port and can use the OEM hose connections. Maybe you can use the kit you already purchased. It will be interesting to see.

Of course, these are all just my opinions on which I would go with. When planning these things out it’s very easy to deep dive down the rabbit hole. It’s how these cars wind up off the road for years at a time. I try to not overcomplicate my solutions and open a bigger can of worms so to speak.


~ GW

 

Defiantly going down the rabbit hole, was originally just a greddy vmount kit and then a exhaust but was told to do more before a tune.
From the JP3 photos it looks like I'll need to remove the acv.
Going to do a bit more research and I'll follow up with what I decide to go with and if it works.

 

Blackduck seems to have done some simplified black box modifications recently.



https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...1156816/page7/

 

I have the black box in my 1993 automatic. The wiring harness connectors are not the same, so you need to find a used JDM wiring harness to get the connectors. You simply have to the de-pin the stock connectors and swap the connectors. if you notice in the pictures not all the connectors are plugged in. Whatever you do not intend to use, you can simply leave unplugged. To keep things clean I removed all unnecessary connectors for my simplified sequential set up. Be very careful when doing this and make sure you do not cut any wires inadvertently. A lot of the wiring harness shares common grounds and clipping a wire at the wrong location may cut the ground for another connector. It is helpful to reference the wiring diagram. Any vacuum line that is not used simply cap off that nipple. Otherwise, everything works as it would and its stock configuration.

 

When returning my simplified set up back to '99 stock configuration I was thankful PO left all the connectors in place in a little bundle.

They are under the UIM so you don't see. When capping of the unused vacuum system nipples make sure you use caps that are not sensitive to heat.

 

@anchaf3 Apologies for not being on topic but, this is the first time I've seen the RMagic coil kit actually in use. Thank you for the reference images as I was looking for some to send to a friend since he doesnt want to do IGN1s

 

that kit is for the later model right hand drive RX7. Installing that kit on a left-hand drive car is not exactly compatible without doing some modifications. The kits for the 93 to 95 model Right hand Drive do not fit the US car. It will only fit the right hand drive car.

It’s been a couple years since I installed those, but if I recall correctly, you definitely have to do the blackbox conversion in order to use the R magic ignition coil kit. The ignition coil mount on to the same mounting plate as the black box. Also, you have to use the metal fuel lines from the JDM car. There was one other thing that I had to change, and it may be the hard piping for the waterlines. it was essentially the part that replaced some of the piping when they switched over to the black box and got rid of the metal rats nest. However, when you get all those parts, they bolt on without any issue and they fit without any modification. It’s just not as simple as installing the kit only.

 

None of that is a problem. One of my friends is single, so no black box, and the other has a '97. easy day. We managed to squeeze the Radium fuel system in that car with fully functioning twins too.

 

in that case, fitment is great! It is completely plug and play. The kit includes the coil packs, the mounting bracket, wiring harness, spark plug wires, and the igniter, if I remember correctly.