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Slowly "upgrading" my bone stock FD, and installed BR's short throw yesterday and beyond impressed.
Yes, throws are a bit shorter, but the precision which it goes through gears now is super slick. Very well done and simple install. May be best sub $100 mod you can make. Well made
Banzai makes great products, so this comment is not about him or his shortshifter, but more shortshifters in general. I have had terrible experience with them in Rx8's, miatas, FC and FD transmissions. (Mazdatrix/C's style) and I'm skeptical of any short shifter on one of them. A stock FD Shifter with new bushings and a weighted ( like Raceseng) **** is a really great driving experience. Shortshifters have a tendency in FC and FD's to really detract in a trans that already has synchronizer issues and end up grinding more than they do shift properly which gets worse overtime with wear. These are transmissions that absolutely cannot handle powershifting or overrunning the synchros like you might be able to do with a tremec. Maybe not as much of a problem on a fresh transmission. I unfortunately have to use an B&M shifter in my NSG370 in my POS chrysler product (2013 wrangler) as the stock shifter has such weak detents a bump in the road will throw the transmission out of gear. But otherwise the thing now shifts like a battle tank and it detracts overall.
whoa, not sure I expected that (mistake is a bit of a stretch), but thanks for feedback, I guess.. For sure a personal preference but lots of hate for short throw shifters. I Didn’t get it to “power shift” through gears but rather simply tighten up and improve precision. And for me it did exactly this. I’ve owned lots of “fast” cars and this thing is a blast tho drive and their shifter made it that just that much more fun. Love all the input from those who have never experienced this version especially, too : ).
“Mistake” IMO and on my car isn’t a stretch at all. Besides, the FD shifter, in good shape, is already pretty “short throw”. Fortunately it’s a relatively easy modification to perform and to reverse. But if you like it….enjoy.
Interesting discussion here on the short shifters. FWIW, my FD came with an authentic B&M short shifter when I got it, and I'm completely happy with it when paired with the OEM FD leather weighted **** - it shifts precisely and has a satisfying feel to it. That said, I haven't experienced a fresh/unworn FD shifter in over 20~30 years, so I have no basis for comparison.
On my FC, I have a MazdaTrix short shifter, and it's OK but it was an acquired taste when compared to a freshly maintained OEM FC shifter (new bushings, etc.). Not in a bad way, but it took some time to get used to it.
Slowly "upgrading" my bone stock FD, and installed BR's short throw yesterday and beyond impressed.
Yes, throws are a bit shorter, but the precision which it goes through gears now is super slick. Very well done and simple install. May be best sub $100 mod you can make. Well made
Upgrades are allways fun if you like it, its perfect, and not let any of us grumpy old OEM fanboys tell you otherwise
Just put the old part in a box in storage in case you change your mind in 2-5-10 years
Having used a c's, actual b&m and a "rebuilt" stock all in the same car over the course of ~10 years of ownership....... guess which one is currently being used and will remain.
The c's was ok. The overall concensus about it, i didnt get. The way people put this thing on a pedestal, i didnt see what the hype was about it. It's funny because I didn't even know that's what it was until I removed it to put the b&m. I saw the little c's logo on the boot and then found out what I had been driving with for a few years.
Going to the b&m was a much more satisfying shifter feel. It really is extremely direct and notchy. Every gear is THAT gear. It's hard to explain but it's got a gated feel to it. It was nice in the short term but after a few years of that, it got old and it wasn't fun anymore.
A stock shifter was aquired along with all the parts to "rebuild" it along with a metal lower bushing and I have not looked back since. It's a refined and beautiful shifting experience relatively speaking. All 3 shifters were using the same shift **** as well. The weighted r-magic **** is almost 1lb.
I've got a chance to feel the re shifter and the jp3 as well. The jp3 shifter is actually pretty incredible. It's a very very very close second to a rebuilt stock. If I ever did change the shifter in my car it would be for a jp3.
Regardless of the shifter, a proper weighted **** makes all the difference. Its science actually lol F=ma
I'm actually about to get a custom shift **** made with a longer shaft to raise the **** and make the throw longer, but lighter. Which is the opposite of what a short shifter does. IMO, the stock FD shifter is already almost too short and high effort. Never have been too impressed with the shift feel, even after trying different trans fluids and shifter setups.
But now this is getting interesting, what is the best trans fluid for smoothest shifts?
Since the 75w-90 gear oil in the reservoir is exposed to little heat, shearing pressure or contamination I doubt it makes any difference as long as it’s there, and reasonably at the correct level.
The FSM calls for GREASE on the upper bushings and ball, and lower bushing. And THAT will make a difference if ignored.
Speaking of the bushing; thoughts on they poly stock version vs a metal version. I tend to thing there needs to be some "flex" or it not necessary..??.. Thanks
The stock lower bushing is hard nylon, not poly. So there’s no real flex in it vs. aluminum or bronze. I think MAZDA may have gone with nylon there to quell drivetrain nvh that even a softer metal would tend to transmit. I’m not sure if that’s a real issue or not. I have an aluminum bushing I got years ago but never installed it.
FWIW my OEM nylon version lasted over 100k miles, so when I bought a shifter rebuild ‘kit’ I just used the new nylon one that came in it.
The c's was ok. The overall concensus about it, i didnt get. The way people put this thing on a pedestal, i didnt see what the hype was about it. It's funny because I didn't even know that's what it was until I removed it to put the b&m. I saw the little c's logo on the boot and then found out what I had been driving with for a few years.
Originally Posted by FDAUTO
I've got a chance to feel the re shifter and the jp3 as well. The jp3 shifter is actually pretty incredible. It's a very very very close second to a rebuilt stock. If I ever did change the shifter in my car it would be for a jp3.
Regardless of the shifter, a proper weighted **** makes all the difference. Its science actually lol F=ma
Just curious in your opinion what makes the JP3 better than the C's? I'm under the impression that they are essentially the same design overall, minus the pivot ball bushing on the C's.
Couldn't say honestly. There was something like a 6 year gap between the 2 with my experience so maybe I am the variable with an evolving preference. Going off memory, I can say the enjoyment from the jp3 was not what was felt when I unknowingly had a c's. Placebo effect? Maybe. This is my experience though. I guess the real test would be to use them all back to back.
Couldn't say honestly. There was something like a 6 year gap between the 2 with my experience so maybe I am the variable with an evolving preference. Going off memory, I can say the enjoyment from the jp3 was not what was felt when I unknowingly had a c's. Placebo effect? Maybe. This is my experience though. I guess the real test would be to use them all back to back.
I actually plan on doing that exact thing.....someday. Cs, Mazdaspeed, and JP3 back to back to back. One day I'll get around to it.
@FDAUTO ironically, I think I actually got that Cs from you a very very long time ago.
I actually plan on doing that exact thing.....someday. Cs, Mazdaspeed, and JP3 back to back to back. One day I'll get around to it.
@FDAUTO ironically, I think I actually got that Cs from you a very very long time ago.
A comparison would be great! It would be good to have objective data on these levers too, like weight, overall length, length from pivot ball, etc. I'm not sure if those numbers exist somewhere but it would definitely help to have some real numbers that could potentially correlate with the more subjective descriptions that have been recorded over the years.
Also, has that C's shifter been cut down? It looks way shorter than other ones that I've seen in pictures.
Originally Posted by REnaissance_Sle7in;[url=tel:12549392
12549392]I actually plan on doing that exact thing.....someday. Cs, Mazdaspeed, and JP3 back to back to back.
If you’re not able to find a Mazdaspeed SS, or if the MS price makes your eyes water you might watch for an old Pettit Racing kit. It was suppose to be identical and as far as I could tell from pictures back in the day…it was. And good quality. That’s what I had but I’m not seeing them on Pettit’s site anymore. Pretty sure it even used OEM bushings and boot so even if you had to rebuild it they’d be available, Of course a used authentic MS might need them too.
...Regardless of the shifter, a proper weighted **** makes all the difference. Its science actually lol F=ma
It's not just the mass and F = ma.
The feel and necessary force (torque) to move the shift lever is also affected by the side-load on the pivot bushing. And the shorter the shifter, the more force is necessary to rotate the shifter in the bushing even if the side force didn't increase, which it does because there is more side load. So the shorter the lever, the more force and friction will increase. It's almost an exponential function.
So a longer (taller) shifter will shift with less force. There is a crossover point where the additional force required with a shorter shifter defeats the quicker shift and doesn't work as well.
I love it when things get all sciencey….With my small brain I’m like my dog trying to understand the Roomba. It’s never gonna happen but it sure holds my attention.
It's clear there is some real science here, but in the end, its simple; personal preference.. My other ride ironically does have a tremec 6060 with a short throw for the last 4-ish years, and love it. Clutch is like a dump truck, so when changing over the FD, to me, and still feels quite effortless. Really didn't expect this much dialog, so very much appreciate the banter, feedback, and love the passion
02-12-23, 10:03 AM
if you like it, its perfect, and not let any of us grumpy old OEM fanboys tell you otherwise 
