nrolfes1

Feast your eyes on this...

Mazda Officials Okay Rotary-Powered Car
Ward's Auto World 10/02/01
author: Roger Schreffler
Copyright 2001 by Intertec Publishing Corporation, a PRIMEDIA Company. All rights reserved.

HIROSHIMA, Japan - With little fanfare in late July, Mazda Motor Corp.'s board of directors approved the company's ballyhooed rotary powered car program.
The RX-8, a 4-seat "crossover" sports car first displayed at the 1999 Tokyo Motor Show (as the RX-EVOLV) could hit dealer showrooms as soon as December 2002. Mazda eventually plans to sell the car in all major markets North America, Europe, Japan and Australia.
Mazda executive Phil Martens, who is managing director in charge of product strategy, design and product development, feels the model's rear-drive platform could form the centerpiece for a new sports car family including, though not limited to, the MX Sports Tourer concept minivan (displayed at the Geneva Motor Show last year), a new Miata-like 2-seat roadster and even a future-generation RX-7 2-seat performance car.
Among the RX-8's attributes, he says, are its 50/50 weight distribution, outstanding body structure, a scalable wheelbase, a 13-gal. (60 L) fuel tank, large trunk space (a major shortcoming of the Miata) and, of course, its naturally aspirated "RENESIS" rotary engine, which was first displayed at the 1995 Tokyo Motor Show on the RX-01 concept sports car.
"Our thinking is to limit the engine's usage to sports cars," says Mr. Martens, who adds: "Powertrain requirements have become extremely complicated. You've got to factor in so many variables emissions, fuel economy, performance. On top of this, economies of scale needed for any (new model) program to succeed have become so onerous that I do not envision the engine being adopted for models in other segments."
Thus, no rotary-powered sport/utility vehicle, pickup truck or sedan.
By giving the RX-8 the green light, Mazda management reversed a strategic decision made several years ago to de-emphasize its hallmark rotary, focusing instead on the award-winning Miller-cycle engine. That engine, both fuel efficient and offering high output, is currently available only on the North American export model of the Millenia sedan. But the Millenia at least the Miller cycle version appears headed for the scrap heap as Mazda works with part-owner Ford Motor Co. to consolidate and rationalize vehicle platforms and programs.
Kei Kado, senior managing director in charge of research and development and Mr. Martens' immediate superior, explains, "The Miller cycle engine was not well-accepted by the market. We can't justify pouring more money into it. Cost depends on volume and, unfortunately in this case, demand failed to meet our market projections."
Since the Millenia's 1995 launch, the automaker has sold only 47,000 Miller-cycle units. Mazda subsequently dropped the engine in the Japanese and European markets in July last year.
Looking just at the numbers, critics feel that the RX-8 could suffer the same fate. Mr. Martens disagrees and believes the new platform has potential to account for as much as 15% of Mazda sales in the future, though he warns that this is just a "gut feeling" and there is no market data to back it up.
"The RX-8's value cannot be measured by some market or volume equation," he says. "If you go to the rotary websites, response to the car has been absolutely unbelievable. After the Detroit auto show (the North American International Auto Show), I received dozens of messages each week for more than four months: 'It's a great car;' 'I love the car;' 'When will the car be available?' and so forth. More than 99% of responses were positive."
Mr. Kado, a rotary car owner dating back more than 20 years, adds, "The RX-8 allows us to express our uniqueness."

DefBringer

What critics are these? Does anybody really expect the RX-8 to not sell well? The market is stagnant and this is a breath of fresh air, especially considering how Honda has moved away from catering to the import tuner crowd....it is Mazda's to seize.

djantlive

There really isn't anything here that is new from what we knew before.

The miller cycle is weak bc it wasn't kept up to date with the newer technology. Today, a TL type S makes 260 HP and an Accord V6 makes 200 HP. The miller cycle was a nice thing 5 yrs ago.

13 gal tank on the RX-8 would give a 150 mi city range? I doubt if it'll be that small. Maybe on the Miata.

SanJoRX7

Anyone else get their full color poster card thing from Mazda? I just got mine in the mail. Man, I want the RX-8 bad. My gf isn't too keen on it, but I think with a little pushing and whining I'll sell my Subaru and get this bad boy. Just need to find out when preorders are going to open up...

djantlive

I got the poster postcard at SS4. It looks nice and is very functional with 4 seats. However, if the HP is only 250 and the torque is only 155 ft-lb, it may not do so well. Remember, you can get an Altima for $23k that has 240 HP and a lot more torque. Not to compare the two cars but I think it points out that 250 HP is just not very impressive in this market today when there are a bunch of cars sporting 250-260 HP that seats more and has a more 'conventional' powerplant that the public would feel more comfortable with. I say give us the 280 HP RENESIS engine so it can be competitive w/ the Z and perhaps BMW 330.

Goblin

Hmmm...

"Our thinking is to limit the engine's usage to sports cars,"


Ok. So, why the **** is it not being put into a sports car then? A four door 'sports sedan' is NOT a sports car.

Rotarywhiz

I think the guys at mazda are trying a new approach to the import market and are testing the waters to see how the RX-8 will sell. Its all a numbers game to big corporations anyways, but if the RX-8 sells well i'm sure mazda will seriously consider bringing out a sports version with 2 doors of the RX-8. :o

technonovice

and ...technically...true sports cars are convertibles. So I guess we drive 2-seat sports coupes/

jasonsr1

I think 250 hp for the RX-8 is adequate, however the 155 lb-ft of torque is a major problem. We all know very well how a rotary engine gets TORQUE . Answer: TURBO

Suparslinc

I don't think the RX-8 will succeed. Reason being, the low torque numbers make it undrivable in city traffic. That and Mazdas notoriously poor drivetrain as exemplified in all 3 gens of RX-7's will result in a poor drivability/resale value.
Rotary is best left to rest, in happier days when Mazda could make it work.

sejanus

the torque figure is *fine* for traffic, it just depends how accessible the torque is.

Wait until you drive it, don't consign the rotary to the graveyard.

annarborman76

I think it will succeed. 250 HP should be enough to give it S2000 like acceleration if it weighs under 3000 pounds and it should make short work of a 240 HP Altima or even a $40K, 225 HP, 3400 pound BMW 330. The RX-8 concept is absolutely beautiful IMO. Not quite as gorgeous or fast as the FD but it will probably be more usable as a daily driver. I don't remember ever awaiting the release of a new car as eagerly as I do this one. Although a true replacement for the FD would be even better.

jasonsr1

I disagree completely with the notion of retiring the Rotary. Mazda is definitely on the right track with the new motor. The new engine has similarities to the peripheral port racing engine. The peripheral port engine is a high reving engine with the power band out of the range of practical streetability. I believe, however, that the Mazda engineers will tweak the torque to about 175 lb-ft before production release.

technonovice

The fact is we will not ne able to predict how the RX-8 will do in the market.
Everyone thought the S2000 would be a big hit and sales have been so slow that Honda is considering bumping its engine form 2.0 to 2.4 in a type R model.
The Fiero was actually a sales hit in its first 2 years.
Even the sports car/sedan market is really driven by the general masses. Thats why The General sells so many Corvettes with automatics.
As trendy as our fickle culture is, who knows what will happen.

NOTA V6

Nope. Technically, sports car convertibles are "roadsters". Sports cars have a roof of some kind, roadsters don't.

Take care,

NOTA V6

In your book maybe. Under 3000 lbs. with crisp handling is IMHO, a sporst car even if it were to look like a school bus and have 12 doors.

Sports Sedan. Sports Car. Not a big stretch of the imagination.

NOTA V6

That's why they have a transmission with 6 speeds.

Gearing makes all the difference in the world. For instance, I would not consider my 7 a dog in any shape or form. But it pumps out a mere 122 ft. lbs. of torque, and 121 hp (both at the rear wheels). They sold many rotary sportscars prior to the introduction of the 3rd gen supercars (and in fact exponentially more than the FD) that had nowhere near the FD's power at all.

Bring on the '8! I can't wait!

misdbman

Interesting discussion, sports car\sports sedan. I think the RX-8 is a sports car. It's just an RX7 with back seats and suicide doors. A throw back in time to the 1G RX7 (I owned one and it was enjoyable to drive). The Japanese 3G RX7 comes with back seats. I think it has more to do with the center of gravity. An Acura or Maxima are sports sedans. I believe one of the Ferrari's comes with rear seats. I would not call it a sports sedan, though.