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Came across this thread and figured I’d throw my two cents in it.
For whenever you are evacuating (pulling a vacuum) the AC system the results in inches isn’t typically good enough. The proper way is to measure it is with a micron gauge.
For a supply air temperature (temperature leaving the vents), you should see about 55°. This would put you in the ball park of 40-45psi on the low side, using R134a.
If you have temperatures leaving the vents that are around 42° you will most likely freeze up your evaporator. The freezing point of 134a is about 28psi. As the evaporator frosts up, there is less surface area on your evaporator (less heat to be absorbed) which would compound the issue and make the pressure lower and snowball. Typically you allow a 10° difference between your supply air and the coil temperature (refrigerant temperature).
If you evacuate your system is low enough, 500 microns, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about your drier clogging up.
I saw that bracket the other day and was meaning to post up about it!
The RX-8 compressor is a little bit smaller and I think a little lighter. The biggie is it's very easily available new and used and it's built for R134 air conditioning right out of the gate.
The only thing that could be strange is figuring out the wiring. That compressor has 2 pins on the connector, whereas our compressor just has 1 wire. You would need to figure out that wiring. it may be that one wire is the "on" wire and the other is for a high or low pressure switch. Not sure.
Also the stock RX-8 hose from the compressor to the AC condenser would probably work as-is, maybe a little bit of bending. If the car has a V-mount that line would probably have to be modified but if it's near a stock mount orientation it should work. Source: just put the compressor and lines on my RX-8 this weekend
The other line to the compressor that goes from the evaporator to the compressor goes up along the top of the firewall then down to the compressor. It attaches to the evaporator with a block type connection with an O-ring. That line would definitely need to be modified. That line on the RX-7 runs in front of the engine instead of along the firewall.
It's an exciting product and I think this is a good way forward. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see someone make lines or some sort of DIY line kit that could make something like this near plug and play.
Please keep us posted, I have been following this progress, and my FD needs a working ac system. The compressor seemed to have given up on me; apparently, it leaked from the "pressure relief valve" I did not get to see it to verify it myself. It is what the folks at DNA garage told me. Moreover, I am either in the market for a new compressor, but FD01-61-450 is not an option or is too expensive. My system is mana. However, the weird thing is that I took a picture of my compressor, and it says DENSO TY14C on the back. What do you think, Dale?
I went a single turbo with the Greddy V mount kit and kept all my AC system...
My idea was:
1) Getting a new RX7 DENSO compressor with the matching connecting DENSO lines from compressor to condenser
2) Getting a new RX8 Condenser with matching RX8 AC lines for both side of the condenser
3) Then make hybrid lines you did and make the system work.
Nevertheless, the idea of getting an RX8 Compressor and Condenser and installing it into the FD seems like a great alternative since the parts are readily available and not so expensive.
The AC compressors are the same MANA or Denso. Everything else is different though.
Some people have had luck finding that compressor new. I think the Tercel used the same compressor or something.
The RX-8 compressor could be a good way to go but at this point we just have mounting brackets and no first-hand "this is how to make it work". Someone is going to need to blaze a trail here.
The AC compressors are the same MANA or Denso. Everything else is different though.
Some people have had luck finding that compressor new. I think the Tercel used the same compressor or something.
The RX-8 compressor could be a good way to go but at this point we just have mounting brackets and no first-hand "this is how to make it work". Someone is going to need to blaze a trail here.
Dale
Hey Dale. I can't speak to any details because I honestly don't remember, but when I spoke to Rotary Performance about the FDs AC system a couple of years ago they did mention to me that they can fab up a DIY install kit to get the RX8 compressor going on the FD. My understanding is that included any brackets/adapters as well as custom lines.
I don't remember what they said the cost would be, but I also don't remember it being anything too crazy expensive.
If you are interested, I'd suggest giving them a call and seeing what they say.
The AC compressors are the same MANA or Denso. Everything else is different though.
Some people have had luck finding that compressor new. I think the Tercel used the same compressor or something.
The RX-8 compressor could be a good way to go but at this point we just have mounting brackets and no first-hand "this is how to make it work". Someone is going to need to blaze a trail here.
Dale
Hey Dale,
If I recall, a thread was created not too long ago comparing the 93-95 AC system MANA and DENSO, and I am not sure if I read it right because there was much information on it; I got a bit lost. Do you mean to let me that regardless of whatever year you get, the AC compressor is the same model for all years?
While doing my research, I came across the Toyota Tercel 93-95 information as the same AC compressor as the FD, but do you know if anyone has indeed confirmed this to be true?
I have left a Facebook message on the JDL page to ask how this was able to work on the FD since he made them specifically for the FD. If anything, that leads me to believe that someone out there has already performed this procedure to make it work. I am just waiting on the reply.
I saw that bracket the other day and was meaning to post up about it!
The RX-8 compressor is a little bit smaller and I think a little lighter. The biggie is it's very easily available new and used and it's built for R134 air conditioning right out of the gate.
The only thing that could be strange is figuring out the wiring. That compressor has 2 pins on the connector, whereas our compressor just has 1 wire. You would need to figure out that wiring. it may be that one wire is the "on" wire and the other is for a high or low pressure switch. Not sure.
Also the stock RX-8 hose from the compressor to the AC condenser would probably work as-is, maybe a little bit of bending. If the car has a V-mount that line would probably have to be modified but if it's near a stock mount orientation it should work. Source: just put the compressor and lines on my RX-8 this weekend
The other line to the compressor that goes from the evaporator to the compressor goes up along the top of the firewall then down to the compressor. It attaches to the evaporator with a block type connection with an O-ring. That line would definitely need to be modified. That line on the RX-7 runs in front of the engine instead of along the firewall.
It's an exciting product and I think this is a good way forward. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see someone make lines or some sort of DIY line kit that could make something like this near plug and play.
Dale
Here are the pics guys, I will ask my friend in PR how are they wiring the compressor as there are few guys already running it over there.
I like the way Speed Junkie mounted the condesnser, I have a aftermarket Rx8 condenser and it’s not the same, I will be mounting it to a 13x27x3” radiator as the stock radiator doesn’t work with my 20B swap. I will ask my friend in PR how are they wiring it as there are few guys running the Rx8 compressor and condenser.
On the FD, the compressor is the same MANA or Nippondenso. In '95 they changed the sticker on the back that says it's for R134a - I don't know for sure if they changed anything in the compressor or just filled it with R134a compatible oil from the factory or what.
Black Mamba, anything you can find on the wiring or whatnot would be very helpful!
Ok concerning the wiring the FD red and black wire with the spade will have to be connected to RX8 TOP connector , if you buying a RX8 OEM pigtail connector it will be the Black/Yellow wire the Black wire on the connector will be ground.
I found a picture online, and there seems to be a wiring harness kit that is supposed to be installed onto the compressor itself, like in this picture. It also looks like one of the wires gets grounded to the compressor on top (I have added a red arrow for reference), and the other single wire goes into a connector that is supposed to get the 12v from.
Now we need to figure out the part number for that short wiring harness on the compressor, and we should be one step closer.
That harness isn't on the RX-8. I just put the compressor in my '8 and it only has the white 2-wire plug in the picture coming right off the main wiring harness.
That picture may be for that compressor in another car.
That plug should be a pretty common one, though. I think that may be used for some side marker lights and stuff too.
So I went this morning to my local u pull it yard and after walking the whole section of imports and searching thru different Mazda including 3,6 and cx9 and Rx8 I noticed that only the Rx8 has that type of connector and also I search Toyota’s and found the same connector on a 2006 Scion TC. Like Dale mentioned above the Rx8 connector is part of the main harness but the Scion TC has a subharness with the ground wire attaching to the compressor the only difference is the polarity is reverse, as I mentioned before the Blk/yellow wire is the power from the relay and the solid Blk is ground. I also have the part number for the Scion sub harness and small screw to attach the ground, I will use the Scion one and reverse the polarity on it.
2006 Scion TC 2006 RX8 Scion TC polarity is reverse RX8 connector Pwr from relay goes to TOP of the connector.
As embarrassing as this sounds, I did not understand what you meant by changing the wires' polarity. So I had to look it up and found this video. I hope this helps explain what you meant by changing the wires instead of just plug and play the sub connector. Unless I am mistaken, that is what you meant, right Black Mamba?. Nevertheless, excellent research on this.
As embarrassing as this sounds, I did not understand what you meant by changing the wires' polarity. So I had to look it up and found this video. I hope this helps explain what you meant by changing the wires instead of just plug and play the sub connector. Unless I am mistaken, that is what you meant, right Black Mamba?. Nevertheless, excellent research on this. Determine Polarity of Wires
yes both connectors are pinned different. As you can see both the RX8 and Scion connectors facing the same way, the power pin on the Scion it’s on same position as the ground wire on the RX8 connector.
Black Mamba, good to see you post here! I was going to tag you on this since I saw you post about the brackets on facebook but I didn't know what your forum name was. Regarding the aftermarket condenser you tried, I noticed that some were a little different than stock, that's why I had to get a stock one.
I did some shopping at the junk yard too. After you told me the wires were from a TC, I found a 2004 at U Pull and Pay and snagged it. I swapped the two wires, but I still need to change the connector on the wire though to make it work with the stock harness. I also took the mounting bolts from that compressor, hopefully they'll work for this one too.
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/159205146@N07/, on Flickr
Ideally we could use the RX-8 larger line, but it needs to be rotated something like this to make it work with the stock FD line, and I don't think it's possible to get it turned that way. There are ridges inside the end of the fitting and I doubt it will be possible to turn it that far. The other end of the line, that connects to the evaporator fits too, although it sticks out very far and I think would hit the frame.
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/159205146@N07/, on Flickr
The RX-8 smaller line might work if it doesn't stick out too far and hit the frame, but I grabbed this line from a 2011 Scion TC and it might work. It's not perfectly bent, but it's in the general direction. The larger line in the pic is from a 2001 Acura MDX. It might work with a different smaller line, although it barely touches this one. Again, this one isn't bent perfectly, but I think it can be made to work.
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/159205146@N07/, on Flickr
This line is from a 2004 Toyota Camry. This one should work, but it has the chamfered end instead of the squared end. That being said, the line that I'm using to the condenser is this same type of fitting and it hasn't given me any issues yet.
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/159205146@N07/, on Flickr
This is somewhat related, but I pulled this line off a 2003ish Camry because it has the squared end, but it won't work for my setup. Might work for someone else though doing a V mount.
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/159205146@N07/, on Flickr
Regarding the Tercel compressor, I noticed those looked exactly like ours. The compressor itself looks the same, although the clutch has a bit different wiring. Shouldn't be an issue if you swap the clutch over, assuming it's still good.
I might give up on this RX-8 compressor swap. I like that they're plentiful and cheaper, but I'm not crazy about having to use a belt with less ribs. If we could find a clutch/pulley with the same number of ribs as stock, I'd definitely continue with this project.
Wow, I didn't even think about it that the compressor has less ribs on it! That's a big one.
I bet there is a pulley that would do the trick.
But, that also brings up the point - the AC compressor is designed to run at a certain RPM at idle. If the FD's main pulley is a different diameter and you need a different AC pulley that really can make things weird. It probably will work but that's a question mark.
Yeah it just occurred to me the other day and I asked Black Mamba and he told me he was using a belt with less ribs. I'm not crazy about it mainly because of how it would look on the other pulleys haha. I had also wondered about the RPM on the compressor and if it could handle it. I figured being from a rotary engine with a similar redline and operating RPMs that it would be fine, but I guess different size pulleys would make a difference too. I hadn't thought of that.
Apparently the RX-8 compressor is also used on John Deer and Kubota tractors haha. The Denso part number is SCSA06C. Looks like other pulleys are available for it, just not sure yet what all is out there.
They also have fittings on that page for the compressor that have threaded ends so you can make lines to route however you need to.
I'm also thinking about a different mounting solution to try to get it to hug the engine a little closer. Unfortunately, the RX-8 compressor mounts directly to the Renesis, so there is no bracket to use in conjunction with the FD bracket. I thought about maybe having an entire bracket machined, but I can't imagine how expensive that would be haha.
Speed Junkie that is very excellent research on your end. Thanks to your information, I looked up SCSA06C seems that this compressor also comes stock with the 6 groves in a Toyota Yaris from 2001 -2007, according to this eBay listing. Toyota Yaris Compressor
Those compressor fittings look like an excellent alternative to creating our own lines instead of trying to Frankenstein all the lines to work. I'm sure that it will require it on the passenger side, but for the diver, the side could be created into an immaculate look. But what threaded lines could we secure into using those fitting, and would anyone know if welding the threaded lines to the threaded fittings permanently would be a good route to take with this?
08-24-20, 10:26 PM
