Kento

No offense, Chuck, but if you just position the oil cooler right up against the stock bumper opening, any decent dual oil cooler setup that has enough surface area to cover the opening will be an improvement over the stock single setup. It's a waste to have all that surface area with even the 25-row if you're only using barely 50% of that surface area.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

I don't exactly what you are saying. which surface area are you referring to? Oil cooler or the opening of the bumper?

Yeah, any dual oil cooler will be better than the stock single one. That's no doubt about it.

Chuck Huang

Kento

Look closely at reza's photos, and you can see how the opening in the bumper butts right up against the oil cooler. The only airflow you're getting into the oil cooler is the size of the opening. And even if created a space between them, you'd need a duct to direct the airflow specifically to the cooler, as well as ensure that you have some sort of exit for the airflow; just because you position a heat exchanger in front of the airflow doesn't mean that the air will go through it.

jspecracer7

You should also take into account oil cooler design. I'm not sure how many fins the stock coolers have(haven't had stock coolers for over a year now) but if you were to fit more rows of fins in, wouldn't that allow for better cooling if you could maximize air flow?

I'm a firm believer in watching oil temps(along with my water temps obviously). My single 25 row cools BETTER than both my stock X 2 oil coolers by 10 degrees celsius. I'll be going to a second 25 row setrab here in the near future to further help my oil cooling.

reza

ACT Clutch is POS! Don't buy it!

Kento

It won't help much if you're only using just the area of the stock oil cooler opening. Even a good cooler would maybe fit in one or two more rows in that limited space. You need to duct that airflow from the opening to as much of the surface area of the cooler as possible, and then make sure there is an adequate exit area behind it.

Are you still using a stock '93-98 front end with your setrab? And are you just positioning it in front of the opening without any ducting?

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Actually it's due to the angle of the photo. There is a 3-4" space between the opening and the oil cooler.

Stock oil coolers come with ducts but the oil cooler do not cool as well as the Earl's type (Aeroquip, Setrab, etc). The fins are too loose so there is not enough surface area of the fins to exchange heat and the rows are not enough.

Reza will have more result when he comes back from track but right now he is too busy saying ACT is a POS.

That ACT clutch he has might prevent him from going to the track. I hope he can make it so he can bring back some more data.

Chuck Huang

reza

Yea dude.....I am looking for a tranny jack now...Do you know who rents them around here?
Gotta put back my good ol' stock clutch back in.

Everbody else,
Anyway, the oil coolers works. that is it. No more arguments.
Would you argue that the larger CPU heatsink is less effective? No! right? For example if you are overclocking AMD CPU, would you use small Pentium style heatsink? No right? You would buy the biggest heatsink available.
The same think here. The oil cooler is just heatsink, so upgrade to a bigger ones. heheheh...

jspecracer7

I have an RE Amemiya N1 front bumper. My old dual setup was ducted properly(sheets of aluminum and silicone sealant). The stock duals sat flush with the openings of my bumper. When I switched, I positioned the setrab in the same fashion, flush with the opening, and then ducted with aluminum and silicone sealant.

Switching to a single setrab 25 row dropped my Oil Temps(measured with my Defi gauge at the greddy oil filter adapter) 10 degrees Celsius overall. Also, I noticed that the time it took to cool down was faster, but I have no datalogs for any hard evidence(time from X degree Celsius to Y degree Celsuis)

No way in hell can somebody say that 10 degrees C can NOT be beneficial to an engine.

reza

Alright, some results from Sunday Feb 1st 2004 SF Region SCCA Autocross in Oakland Coliseum.

Outside temp about 55F
After each finish of auto-x run, both temp is about 180F.
During the wait in line for the run (no movement), the water temp increase to about 210F and oil temp is about 195F, when I turn on the fans, both temp goes back to 180F.

So overall summary is you need airflow over any type of cooler, whether it is radiator or oil cooler.
Winter is easy on the car, I will post result later in Summer 100F weather. That should be fun.

amp

iTrader: (50)

no offense intended chuck but shouldnt you have your own data to back up your products...
itll help ya from those who may dispute what you offer..
id tend to agree with kento...
the cooler is only as good as the surface area available for drawing cold air...
this is not to say that the potential of the 25 row is any less than that of the oem...

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

I can always tell you how good it is and provide you with my own data because I make the products. Don't you think the end users's experience is more persuasive than my telling you how good it is?

I agree with you on the frontal area of the duct. Let me give you an analogy. The SMIC has the same IC duct frontal area of 2"x10" either for the small OEM IC or the big SMIC. Big SMIC still cools better than the OEM IC, right? The front bumper's oil cooler opening is big enough to support 25 row. If you add a 50 row, it's probalby not going to cool better than the 25 row because you will need additional frontal area for that.

You also forgot about the effiency of the heat exchanger which I have already mentioned in this thread and so did Jspecracer7. Not all heat exchanger with the same surface area cools the same. The stock one does not have as many rows and fins in between as the Earl's type (Aeroquip, Setrab, etc). That's why the Earl's oil cooler cools better even if it were the same size as stock. The more the heat exchange area, the better. And in this case, the 25 row is already bigger than the stock oil cooler in physical size. The heat exchange area is probalby twice as much. You don't just look at the oil cooler's physical area of a" x b". You have to account for the surface area of all the rows and fins that actually do the job.

In one of the oil cooler threads, there is a gentleman with the R1 model changing his R1 dual oil cooler to the dual 19 aeroquip and found the dual 19 row oil cooler dropped the oil temp by 20-30F on the track. He still uses the stock bumper. The only thing changed is the oil cooler. You can do a search and it's on the forum somewhere.

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

SPOautos

Really though, as long as the air surrounding the oil cooler is cooler than the oil cooler itself heats going to exchange from the oil cooler to the air...even if there was NO air flow on it. Its not going to be as efficient as a ton of air blowing thru it BUT it should be better than nothing.

STEPHEN

reza

Yeap...that is why we need to keep moving....airflow...
No point measuring oil cooler efficiency in bumper to bumper traffic or idle...

amp

iTrader: (50)

agreed on all points..
but to present no data provides sceptism to the consumer..
technical specs are not available in your product description..
im not one of the naysayers..
just pointin out that consumers are savy enough to take note on who have done r&d to those who have not..
most are just lookin to avoid bein a guinea pig...
and some are just lookin to be convinced..

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Of course, otherwise, the oil temp will be probably around 250F without any oil cooler.

There are three types of heat transfer:

1. Radiation
2. Convection
3. Conduction

When there isn't any air flowing through the heat exchanger, the majority of heat exchange is done by convection which is no way as fast as conduction.

When there is air flow, it's done by conduction. Even though you can't see air, air is in contact with the fins of the oil cooler to absorb the heat. And how fast air flows through the heat exchanger is also important. Your frontal area is fixed. Let's say the frontal area of the oil cooler duct is A cm2. If the air speed is B cm/sec. That means the amount of air going through the heat exchanger is AB cm3/sec. And if 1 cm3 or air can absorb C kw of heat, the heat exchange rate is ABC kw/sec. I don't want to complicate the equation by throwing in the heat exchange surface factor but you get the idea.

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

So what kind of data and technical specs do you need? Are you implying I haven't done any R&D and I treat customers as guinea pigs?

I have tested out the oil cooler kit for over a year before I release it on the market to make sure it's safe to use and does the job as desribed. I had the oil cooler kit on my own personal car back in 1999.

Chuck Huang

amp

iTrader: (50)

no implication was intended...
merely indicating that information youve provided in this post would give a consumer the confidence that r&d was done..
your website product description only shows MOC..
its also ideal to get specs direct from the seller in addition to havin a buyer back it up..
how about comparison specs with that of oem under certain specified conditions and ranges to start..
as ive stated earlier no offense was intended...
merely lookin to give ya a heads up on what this end ...a consumer.... would like to see..

reza

Oil Cooler result from track day.

Thunderhill at Willows, CA
Temp outside about 50+F
Weather raining.
Temp when I exit to pit is water ~180F oil ~180F, see photo.