TailHappy

Well, it looks like track events are in my blood, so I'm heavily considering trying to get a rollbar installed before the fall MADS. But I didn't realize it would be so difficult of a decision!

Been doing searches but it seemed like this thread was pretty much all that's out there on the forum:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=rollbar
and it pretty much just turned into a flame war...

My car is a daily driver that will see maybe 3 track events a year and monthly autocrosses. So, high on my priority list is a good clean looking install that doesn't compromise on functionality and doesn't hit me on the head every day on the way to work (I'm 6'). Rear visibility would be a definite plus since cops like to try to sneak up behind us around here. My car's an R1, so it sounds like the Cusco is an option since I don't have a sunroof, along with the Kirk and M2's versions.

Looks like the M2 is the best you can get if ya got the money, but it seems like there's rumors of it not being SCCA-legal, and I hate limit myself there. Unfortunately the stupid SCCA makes you buy the rulebook, so I can't find anything other than rumors about it.

On top of everything else, I'd like to install it myself, so I want it to fit without a lot of bending, which seems to be an issue with some of the bars.

Another option would be to get a custom job, but I don't know how that would compare with the prebuilt ones as far as structural integrity.

So now I'm totally confused as to what to get. If any of you have been down this road and have some good hindsight advice, I would sure appreciate it!!!

gfelber

I have the M2 bar. It's a very good quality unit that doesn't obstruct vision (I'm 5'11") or impede driver movement. If you get the diagonal bar then the passenger will lose approximately 1.5-2" of seat travel.

They're not rumors, at least if you plan on going wheel-to-wheel racing or SOLO I. I've the rule books and have checked into this extensively, including discussion with SCCA racing tech inspectors. In short, for autocross, the bar is legal (of course, you don't even need a bar). For SOLO I, some regions will let you use the bar (NMW will in my case). Many won't. For Showroom stock or any other type of SCCA racing the M2 bar is not legal. In fact, for other organizations (like NASA) the bar isn't legal either. It meets the minimum diameter thickness requirements and material, but you need to have a 6 point with side protection (and a way to mount a window net). M2 can make a 6 point, but as of about a month ago, they weren't offering side impact protection braces as an option.

BTW- Bolt-in bars are SCCA legal as long as mounting plates and the proper hardware are used.

The M2 bar is a fairly straightforward install. Best to have two people, but it's not that bad. The fit is very tight, but that enables you to have better rearward vision, etc.

As far as structural integrity is concerned, no one I know had actually "tested" the M2 bar, so I can't provide and additional assistance in that area.

Kirk and Autopower also make fully legal SCCA bars. These are available in bolt-in and weld-in configurations. The advantage is cost- they're very resonable. The downside is weight- a 6 point Kirk is about 110 lbs.

So now I'm totally confused as to what to get. If any of you have been down this road and have some good hindsight advice, I would sure appreciate it!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

In hindsight, I probably would have purchased a 6-point Autopower bar. In fact, I'm probably going to do so anyway. At least I'll have piece of mind re: side impact protection, head restraint, and the flexibility of doing wheel-to-wheel stuff later.

It really depends on what you want to do with your car. For driver's school, hot lapping & autocross, I'd probably stick with the M2 bar. For piece of mind- well I guess that's subjective.

If you have any more questions, PM me or send me an e-mail.

Regards,

Gene
www.purplemantis.com

TailHappy

Man, thanks a billion, Gene!!! That was a quality post!

To clarify a little more in light of some of the comments you made, at this point I wouldn't be looking to do any wheel-to-wheel racing, so I think a 4-point would be most suitable. SCCA Solo I eligibility would be my only concern, and that would only be way out in the future. So it sounds like the only legality issues with the M2 is that it stiffens the chassis. It occurred to me that this might only be in reference to the stock classes (sorry, I'm only familiar with Solo II classes). I'm already in A-prep anyway, so is that even an issue?

Sounds like the M2 might be the way to go for me, with price being the only real downside. On a (hopefully) one-time purchase like this, seems like it's worth saving just a little longer to do it right the first time.

Thanks again!!!

gfelber

You're welcome!

There was some chat a while back about the M2 bar not being legal due to possible stiffening of the chassis - particularly in regard to the shock tower mounts. I've never had any tech folks question this on my car in 3 SCCA regions, but I run in ASP. I've an SCCA divisional at the end of the month (most rigorous tech) and I can ask around about stock classes for ya.

Gene
PS- some pics of my car and M2 roll bar in:http://www.purplemantis.com/Mantissa...ssa%20main.htm (select "the car" on the left pane)

DeNguyen

i have the autopower 4pt roll bar. i think its a very good bar in all aspects.

*weighs about 50-60 lbs
*legal at all tracks
*rearview sight obstruction is kept pretty minimal. i dont know how it is for taller people, but im 5'6" and it works perfect for me.
*i installed it myself, but i would highly recommend doing it with 2 people.

heres a pic if it helps any:



Oh, and if you wanna add some more leg/headroom since you are tall, just buy a pair of these

DeNguyen

oh i dont know this is true, but ive been told that the cusco bar is made of aluminum and that is why its not legal at track events. (this came from a guy with a cusco bar)

grampa

The local club I am in does not allow bars that attach to shock towers.

Hence the Kirk Racing which attaches in the rear storage bins (rear wheel wells).

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

TailHappy,
LOL yeah I read the "other" thread. Gene, you have some great input. My contirbution is any questions you might have WRT the Kirk bar let me know and maybe I can help.
For starters:
http://reganrotaryracing.tripod.com/kirkroll.htm

And FWIW I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but the reason for the M2 illegality is that the rear support legs bolt to the top of the strut towers. This is a no no as it is essentially acting as a strut tower brace thereby stiffening the "chassis" The Kirk bar is SCCA legal because it does NOT bolt to the strut towers but rather to the rear fenders.
Regards,
Crispy

TailHappy

Slick looking car! I particularly like the different color dash. Very professional looking. And I like the looks of that M2 bar, too. Quickly deciding that's what I'm gonna have to have!

Again, I'm already in A-prep, so I don't think the stock class rules will matter to me. But it still would be interesting to document on here what the official rules are if you get a chance to ask.

Best of luck in the divisionals!

TailHappy

Wow, y'all snuck a bunch of posts in there in the time it took me to reply!

Anyway, again, all this talk of legality due to mounting to the strut tower braces only has to do with stock classes, right? At least in Solo II's A-prep I'm allowed to do whatever I want to the suspension so I don't see any reason why using a rollbar that strengthened the chassis would be a problem.

Thanks for the pics of the other bars, too. Looks like you can't really go wrong with any of the brands.

grampa

I have wondered if the reason for not attaching to the shock towers is that if you get into a bad rollover and the rear wheels take a bad hit the force can be tranfered into the roll bar brace and compromise it. By connecting to the body this is reduced.

TailHappy

Hmmm, interesting theory grampa. However, on the other hand it would seem that the shock towers would be engineered to be one of the strongest places on the car since it's meant to take, well shock! The body could be damaged in a bad wreck too, and might not be as strong in the first place. I could see this one going either way....