Alcoholic

Long story short...

say I buy a fairly clean FD with maybe 85k miles on it for around $13k or whatever....throw down around $10-15k modding...then go to sell it after maybe 3-4-5 (really not sure) years and a bunch of miles...would I be able to sell the car for ****?

When I think about buying an FD, the thing that worries me is that I feel that it will be a total money pit and then when I finally get tired of it, or move on to the next project.....I feel that I will just lose many thousands selling.

When I look at FD's in autotrader.....I usually don't even click on the ads for modded ones. heh.

rynberg

You don't get your money back out of modifying ANY car, the FD is the same way. You may get more than a stock FD with the same mileage/condition, etc., depending on the nature of the modifications, but it won't be much more, unless it's a well-sorted 20B or something.

Alcoholic

...but the way you guys make the 7 out to be is like...

"this car is awesome to drive, but it ******* sucks, don't buy it. it WILL break, you WILL be fucked, and YOU shouldn't drive this car; in fact, no one should."

then...

"I love my 7."



....













maybe it's just scaring me a bit. does **** realy break that often in a well built rx7?

btw, 20b is out of the question, very expensive, ***** up the weight distribution too much.

rynberg

No, it's just that there are so many poorly maintained FDs, from either lack of maintenance or the fact tha they are being maintained by people who don't have a clue what they are doing...

But make no mistake, these are seriously hardcore cars. They don't have Civic reliability, parts are expensive, some of the car's systems are very complicated and sometimes difficult to diagnose, and when you are asking the motor to generate twice the stock output, yes, things break.

moehler

iTrader: (12)

No. In a well built seven things do not break any more than other cars. If an rx7 is modded improperly or not taken care of, it goes to hell real fast. The key is to mod it smartly and keep on top of the maintenance.

As far as resale value, don't buy this car with the hopes of getting your money back. It will not happen .

AMRAAM4

if you want a car where you'll possibly get your money back...or more....try and find some sucker who has a nice Supra sitting around they don't drive and will sell it (not knowing what they have).

I've seen a couple '98 Quicksilver Supra TT's for sale on SupraForums...HOLY ****!! $55k+ !!! The damn car wasn't even that brand new!

tt2323

instead of paying 13k for a car then addin 10k in mods, find one already modified completely and let the seller take the loss

mgoddard1

Exactly. No seller in their right mind should expect to get back what the put into the car. If that were the case I'd be selling mine for about $30k

Alcoholic

At least this is somewhat reassuring. lol.

Yeah, I don't expect a tuned high performance car to be a civic......but I can't afford and don't want to deal with a car that can't stay running for a while/is always in the shop...

Any idea what a pretty modded seven would get me as far as mpg city, anyway? as long as it's over like.......12.

That would be hard to find. Where would I go about looking for something like that? heh...supras are pretty damn rare. not as rare as 7's, but damn rare. Coming accross an idiot with a supra turbo would not be easy.

because......

*Rarity--it would be hard to find a seven built the way I'd want it built

*I have no clue of the quality of the work that was put in to the car

*I have no idea how well the car has been maintained

*Any highly modified car HAS been driven HARD

*It's more fun to start with a stock car and build it up

*I'm not a good enough driver for a shitload of power immediately and would rather not make one less FD in existence.

*First car [please refrain from bitching at me, making references to tf&tf, and telling me why this car isn't right for me. plz and thx]

if I had that much money invested, I'd probably never end up never selling it....when I got ready for something new, I'd just stop spending money on the seven and save for the new car. lol. wouldn't be suprised if that ended up happening anyway.

MakoRacing

iTrader: (12)

How so? You can move it back the 6" or so it adds with some work and be fine..

Alcoholic

from most of the **** I've read here, it messes up the weight distribution. A 20b just doesn't seem worth it.....I mean how much would that cost anyway? reliability? gas? I don't want a car that's just totally not streetable. I also plan to auto-x and I don't need to do anything that screws up the car's handling.

AMRAAM4

I agree, I didn't say it would be easy. However, TT Supra's are actually more rare than third gen RX7's even though TT's were made from 93-98.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

-BAD IDEA! Everyone messes up their first car, even if they've got good intentions. Whether you can admit it or not, you lack the experience (which develops the necessary skills and judgement) required to pilot something with the power-to-weight-ratio of an FD. There are many things that can ONLY be learned from experience, and driving is one of them. It's a physical skill like running or playing basketball; you can't get better at driving just by thinking about it.

What's more, mistakes, accidents, or lapses of judgement can be expensive or fatal in a car, and a high-powered car will cause everything to be happening at much faster speeds, which leaves less room for inexperience.


If you're really bent on buying an FD, you need to save your money, learn to drive well, and keep researching them. You'll be ready eventually, and these cars will still be around. Get at least 4 years' driving experience, and learn to do your own mechanic work. Take auto shop at your high school.


You seem to be financially-minded, so think about this: the depreciation on a cheap car isn't nearly as bad, percentage-wise or dollar-wise. A $3k car today might be worth $2k next year, which is only a $1k loss in the end. Most of us spend more than that in one year on maintening our FD's. Buy something cheap yet fun, maybe a 240SX if you feel the need for rear-wheel drive, or a non-turbo RX-7 if you want a rotary because it's a cool engine.

-s-

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

A lot of people have compared it to dating a hot girl who's good in bed, but has a bitchy annoying attitude and a reputation for being unfaithful. You know it's a bad idea, you know that there's a very real possibility that she's going to drive you nuts and let you down in the end. But the fun is VERY fun, and some people don't mind gambling.

-s-

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I'll add couple of things..

I'm not sure how to explain.. But these cars are like pre-med students who take weed out courses like Organic chem in college.. People think that because they see them on magazines and movies and buy them without knowing a thing about the engine or the car. When they buy it, they realize it takes time, money, and acturally learn about the car.. And when it seems to be too much work and time consuming, eventurally they end up selling them.. Kind of like pre-med students who like the idea about becoming a doctor but fail organic chem and decide to do something else.

http://mouton.best.vwh.net/sccasolo/...04/stockc.html

If you look at the Auto X catagory, you'll see that 3rd gen (stock) are with newer high end cars like vipers, elise, 911s.. that should tell you how great these cars are.. Far better than supras or 300z's from the same era.. And don't get me started on 20b's...

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

That might be true about Supra TT's, but if you then compare to FD r1s or r2s, they are more rare.

Since Mazda didn't make N/A engine with 3rd gen body, I say body style there are less 3rd gens then any other cars.

Alcoholic

Knew this was coming...:-\...shouldn't have mentioned it.

*sigh* yes, a lot of people **** up their first cars...and it's usually due to idiotic mistakes/distractions while driving.

I'm responsible, my dad knows this, he knows the performance cababilites of the car perfectly well, and he doesn't have a problem with it. Why? Because I'm not an irresponsible ****** that will be redlining his car everywhere, constantly speeding, racing every chance he gets and he trusts me.

You want to know the main reason why I want an FD? So that I have a car with good performance out of the box, with plenty of potential. I plan on auto-x'ing as soon as I get my license. Cars have been....an obsession? ...ever since I was like 11 years old. I'm 17 now, and I'll be almost 18 in january when I can drive by myself, legally...

I'll be the first to admit, I suck at driving...but that's not anything I can't change. Auto-x, and lapping days will certainly help with that...though I'll probably be embarrassed of my driving when I first start doin that ****.

If you think I'm going to wait four years for a nice car, you're insane. :p I'm not going to drive a boring, gas efficient, and cheap to insure car for four years. lol. ..by that time, I'll have my scca license.

I can't take auto shop (I'm not in school, long story). I'm getting my GED really soon (rediculously easy, pretty pathetic actually) and starting college in the fall. I've thought about taking mechanics, but it's an 18 month course and even if I completed it, between work and school, I wouldn't have time to work on my own car and have a social life. I have farrrr bigger plans to be spending 18 months in mechanics school, though don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to work on my own car. then again, maybe there are automotive classes in college? but probably not at the college i'll be stuck at for two years.

My finances are really none of anybody's business, I can budget myself. I'm not an idiot and I won't try to live beyond my means. I still don't like the idea of losing thousands of dollars, but it's true...it'll happen with any car you mod.

And for the record, I do work, I bust my *** in a warehouse everyday then resist temptation and save most of my money for a car.



You're just making me want the car more.

And if you want to give me an accurate perspective on 20b's, get started allready.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

instead of me going on and on.... you should read and do a search on the forum.. I have seen many many teenagers saying pretty much the same thing you been saying..

My advice... This car isn't for first timers..

rynberg

LOL

EVERY teenager that comes on here tells us he's extremely responsible, very mature for their age, etc. etc. If this were true, there would be NO typical teenagers! (Or are they all over at the Camaro/Mustang forums....)

It doesn't matter if you are mature for your age or not, these cars can bite even experienced drivers HARD...ask how many of us track junkies have gone shooting off track at 80+ mph....

By your own admission, you suck at driving. This is just not the car for you. We have lots of FD-owning teenagers on here, and it works out for some of them, but that doesn't mean they really should have these cars. More likely it means that they've been lucky.

Why is that so crazy? It's normal. I just had a long post about this in the lounge. Your generation feels so entitled to have everything RIGHT NOW. WHY? Life is long, kid, you've got plenty of time to grow up and get nice things. Get a nice 2nd gen n/a RX-7 -- they still look good, they handle very well, and are decently quick. You can learn how to handle rear wheel drive vehicles and learn how to work on a (simpler) rotary-powered car. In a couple of years, graduate up to an FD.

Trust us, we've all been where you are now, and understand what you want. But be smart. The fact that you aren't in high school shows that there might already have been poor decisions made on your part (if not, I apologize). Be smart.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Alright, let's look at it from a racecar driving perspective, assuming you are mature enough and will somehow not make any novice mistakes as you learn.


The way to be fast is to constantly use the tires to their maximum potential, while taking lines around the course that will allow you to have the fastest possible laptimes. Driver skill is what wins races, especially autocrosses. In a low-powered, well-balanced car, you have plenty of time to focus on improving your technique, finding the best line, and making a smooth transition from full braking to full cornering to full acceleration without overloading the tires. In a car with low potential (don't mistake this for a car that handles badly or is not well-balanced), you won't be able to get away with sloppy technique. You'll bog the engine or lose grip in a corner, and bad technique will yield a slower time.

In a high-powered car, things are coming at you blindingly fast, and you will be overwhelmed. But your times might not be too slow, since you're driving a fast car. The high potential of the car will make it difficult to use it to its true abilities. Your times will be inconsistent and it will take longer to develop your skills.

If your goal is autocrossing, I'd recommend a Miata. They're cheap, well-balanced, there are tons of parts for them, and if you want to get into wheel-to-wheel racing, they have their own Spec Miata classes. They are also competitive in their autocross classes (you're not going to win any trophies in an FD, the Z06 owns the class now).


I was a responsible kid in high school also, I saved my money and didn't waste it on stupid stuff. I drove an '86 Honda Accord from the age of 16-19. I was a safe driver, never got into any accidents. But I still made plenty of first-time-driver mistakes in that car, managed to scrape the curb while parking a few times, scratched the wheels, got rock chips in the windshield from following semi-trucks too closely, got door dings from high school parking lots, movie theaters, college parking lots, etc... I bought a Subaru 2.5RS when I was 19, it had 165 HP and was more power than I needed at the time. I bought an AE86 Corolla when I was 21, it had only 80hp, but was better balanced than the Impreza, it really forced me to learn to drive properly if I wanted to go fast.

The only reason that I bought my FD was because a low-mileage, nearly-mint model was practically dropped in my lap. My friend received one as a trade-in at his dealership, and told me I needed to test-drive this car. It is a great vehicle, but I know for sure I wouldn't have been ready for this much power when I was 18 or even 20 years old. I had 2-3 years of autocrossing experience before I bought my FD, and it was still a handful. I spun out at my first three events, just because of the weird powerband and throttle response created by the twin turbo setup. Today, I know I'm still nowhere near being able to drive it to its potential.

Good luck,
-s-

Alcoholic

I understand that you guys are trying to help, but to make this nice and simple, I'm stubborn and may just have to learn a lesson the hard way.

And scotty, I won't be trying to win any trophies...I just want to have fun.

Anyway, gotta get to sleep, I'm gonna be tired at work tmw.

AMRAAM4

yeah, well even with your own disregard for personal safety aside, WE as a COMMUNITY are tired of inexperienced people wrecking these cars. All it does is drop their existence one more at a time. You wanting the car, being stubborn, disregarding safety....is your thing....but donating another car to the worthless scrap heap is the RX7 communities thing.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

LOL!! Good point!
Maybe you had some issues in HS because of EtOH and maybe due to that you can't get your license until your 18?? I don't know your story but don't get an fd as your first car.. I've bought 2 non-running FDs from teens because they blew it up either b/c lack of understanding the car or lack of maintainence. I also bought 2 engines from teens because they wrecked their FD's.. So, just thru my personal experience dealings with teens, show that FDs aren't for young/in-experienced drivers.. Yes! I know... There are exceptions.. Go buy cheap slower car and auto x with it.. also remember that tracking your car also cost "$$$"....
My advice @ this point will be.... stop searching the forum and go get your GED and goto a good college!!

Dan Stevenson

They are not that uncompetitive. Last time I autocrossed, I beat the 4 other Z06s in my class and 2 FDs. I am not saying the FD is better, but driver skill can help at the local/regional level.

Alcoholic

EtOH?

My story is a long one; dates back seven years (long ******* time for someone my age).....not gonna get into it.

I don't get my license til january because in florida you have to hold your learners permit for a whole year.

that's great, i don't care about them or their cars.... it has no relevancy to me. I know people that would buy an rx7 without even understanding the fact that it does not have cylinders.

I'm getting my GED when I make time for it, I've been working too god damn much lately and will be working sat and sunday as well and I got other **** to take care of other then the GED. it's not like it's a difficult achievement or something...I could have [seriously, no joke] gotten my GED when I was in 6th grade.
good college? with a GED? that'll have to wait two years.