MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

I did a search on bushing but I really not sure which way should I go. I got the "clunks" like most 3rd gens. and I want to get rid of them. Will this required all the bushing to be replace on the rear? From what I was reading it doesn't but I don't know which one usually people replaced to get rid of the "clunks". I already got some Tein Flex coil overs and planing in buying RB sway bar kit. I planned on doing some auto-x soon but not untill I get this bushing change and get the car balance. I was looking at the RX-7 Store and they have some there. But from what I was reading here in the forum (if they are the Jimlab ones) they don't include all of the bushings. I also pretty much daily drive my car. So I'm pretty much asking what would be the best route to go and if there are other places that I can look to get bushing kit beside the RX-7 Store? Thanks

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

There are 6 pillowball bushings in the rear. You can buy a set of these from Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda for $300 or so. These generally fix any rear clunking problems. Usually only one or two are worn, but replacing the whole set might not be a bad idea.

Other busings for the rear include the rubber differential mounts and trailing arm bushings. Corksport sells Mazdaspeed versions of these for $200 or so for a set. Generally these bushings when worn do not cause clunking - instead they cause a certain looseness or play in the rear end under load.

Go for the pillowballs first and they should fix your problem.

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

well now that you point it out. My back end does feel loose as hell. So I might replace those to. What about the front?

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/pillowballs-all-installed-my-impressions-looooong-312722/

No-Pistons-TT

are you talking about rear toe links? I just put a set of rp racing in my car i love the feel huge difference and only 220$

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

I did read that but it sound to be too stiff and he was having trouble keeping the read end from coming loose. I don't know if it is the settings he got for the aligment though. Is that the route I should take?

From RP? RP meaning... Rotary Performance? Sorry but at this time it doesn't click on me. I got so manything on my mind.

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

My experience with a 100k mile suspension is that the toe links are probably the cause of most of your problems. Do your rear wheels steer but have very little top/bottom movement? My 6 pillow ***** were also very bad but they didnt have nearly the impact on noise and tightness when I replaced them. They made things generally loose but didnt cause rear steering nearly as bad as the toe links. My rubber bushings are all fine.

I recommend pulling the rear wheels and just start grabbing things and jerking them around with good force. Seriously put some arm into it and you will pretty easily be able to tell where your noise is coming from.

POS7

While we're on the topic of pillowball bushings , are these good to have (necessary because stock wears out or are an improvement)?

/3rd Gen RX-7 Toe Links and Trailing Arms/

Center rods on both the toe link and trailing arms are made from CNC machined 6061 T6 aluminum SOLID rod to provide the maximum strength with the lightest weight. The center rods are anodized in black for corrosion resistance. All the bushing are made of 304 stainless steel and they are made to accept the rod end seals. The only difference between different versions will be the rod end's material, strength, and center ball wear resistance. Both toe links and trailing arms come with rod end seals.

Why is our Toe Links and Trailing Arms better than the rest:

The rods we use are SOLID aluminum; the rest is hollow. The rods we have are at least 50% stronger than the rest.

The rod ends we use are racing grade. Some others use the commercial grade rod ends which are never meant to be used for suspension purpose. The body of the commercial rod end actually breaks under heavy load which will cause major repair cost.

Our toe links and trailing arms come with rod end seals which keep the dirt out of the center ball and further extend the life span of the rod ends. Stock ball joints come with seals for a reason. All the others do not come with this feature.

----------------------

Also, if you replace the toe links/trailing arms, do you still have to replace all 6 pillowball bushings? I'm not too sure exactly where all the bushings are. I'm not exactly a suspension expert

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

so the parts that makes the clunk are
FD01-26-220
*******230
*******42Y
should I go with factory parts on those pillow bushings? Also my rear end feels loose. Should I upgrade my toe links and trailing arms? If I do this do I need to replace bushing there also? I'm so lost is not even funny

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

sorry double post

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

The Mazda OEM pillowball bushings are fine (I'm not even sure there is an aftermarket replacement here). New trailing arms and toe links will come with bushings.

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

cool then I will go that route. Same thing Ray recommended.

DamonB

If the suspension is still original you can count on at minimum it needing the 6 pillowballs as well as the inner and outer rear toe links.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

i don't have them on my car, because i don't own one yet, but i had a question about spherical bearings, and this is where i was directed. basically it replaces anything that can give in your suspension with a bearing, so there is no way that they will wear out like a normal bushing. they are also very smooth and transfer a ton of road feel through the entire car (both good and bad). the one downside, like most aftermarket bushings, is that (i'm assuming) you need to lube them often. the problem with the rear end coming loose, as described in that post, is because of the shear difference between a buttoned-down suspension, and one that is worn to hell. with one that's worn to hell, your inputs are alot larger than they should be to get your car to do what you want it to. with a buttoned down suspension, like one with all spherical bearings, your inputs need to be much less to get the same results. it's probably comparable to replacing cracked/broken sway bar end links with the bar from rx7store.net, it makes a massive difference in the feel and ride of the car, and the amount of input the car requires to change direction.

maxcooper

Spherical bearings, rod ends, and pillow ***** do wear out, usually much faster than rubber bushings. When rubber bushings wear, the usually just get softer at a gradual rate. When pillow ***** wear, you get play with no resistance. If the letters A to Z represent stiffness, with A being zero stiffness and Z being completely rigid, here's a stiffness-versus-deflection profile for worn bushings of each type:

Rubber: GGHIJKLMNOP
Spherical: AAAAAZZZZZ --- loose and clunky!

Also, while I like a precision suspension just as much as the next driver, having some give in the suspension does make it a bit more forgiving and certainly helps keep the noise down.

-Max

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Do you see this as a mileage thing? If so, does this tend to happen at 60k or 100k? I'm at 60k, and I get a wee bit of clunk, but I also only have a wee bit of money now to fix it.

I think someone (Dale Clark?) mentioned removing the rear strut assembly to make the grab&shake inspection easier. Do you agree?

Dave

POS7

im at 58k and i get a lot of clunk I'm getting side to side play on uneven roads too (if you understand what this means)

I think its because the roads on Oahu are so messed up. Sometimes it feels like my fillings will vibrate loose.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

wait, can you look at your post again? shouldn't Spherical be ZZZZZZAAAAAAA? or am i missing something? i can see where you're coming from saying that spherical bearings, rod ends, and pillow ***** wear out, as do rubber bushings, but which would wear out faster? i'm assuming that spherical bearings would wear to a point that you'd have to replace them sooner than rubber, but is it some rediculous wear rate, like you have to replace them every 20k miles, or is it a difference of 50k miles for spherical bearings vs. 100k miles for rubber bushings?

No-Pistons-TT

thoughs mazda factory bushings are like 1000$

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

If you add up all the bushings it is more like $1500, but the control arm rubber bushings seem not be be a failure point.

Here is a list of all the suspension bushings that I figured I would need if I wanted to replace everything. Apart from the rubber control arm bushings, I plan to replace all these in the next year or so to get rid of some mild clunking and rear end play.

Excluding the rubber control arm bushings, a complete replacement set is $900 or so. (I guess you could also throw in front and rear anti-roll bushings too, which would be about $40 for a set.)

Many people buy aftermarket trailing arms rather than replace the bushings.

Rear suspension
===============

Differential bushings: 1 per side - ~$50 each for Mazdaspeed ones; Total (2): ~$100.

Trailing arm bushing: 1 per side - ~$50 each for Mazdaspeed ones; Total (2): ~$100.

Toe control bushings: 2 per side (~$50 each, best to replace with aftermarket toe links for ~$250); Total (1): $250.

3 pillow ***** per side (2 at outer end of LCA, 1 at outer end of UCA) - ~$50 each; Total (6): ~$300.

4 rubber bushings per side (2 at inner end of UCA, one in middle; one at inner end of LCA) - ~$50 each; Total (8): ~$400

1 rubber shock mount per side - ~$40 each; Total (2): ~$80.

1 rubber spring mat per side - ~$10 each; Total (2): ~$20

Total rear end bushing replacement: ~$1200

Front suspension
================

4 rubber bushings per side (two inner for each CA) - ~$50 each; Total (8): ~$400.

1 rubber shock mount per side - ~$40 each; Total (2): ~$80.

1 rubber spring mat per side - ~$10 each. Total (2): ~$20

Total front end bushing replacement: ~$500

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

doble post

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

My rear end is so loose that when I go WOT on 5th I can feel the body of the car shifting away from the suspension in one direction.

DamonB

It's hard to pin it down to an exact number. I purchased my car with 66K on it and the toe links were worn but the pillowballs were fine (for about a year anyway). Nobody can say if that's true for every car but no matter how much the car was driven it's still a 12 year old car and stuff will need replaced merely from age. I think everyone should just count on replacing the pillowballs and the toe links regardless of mileage. If you already know they are worn they certainly won't get better. Budget money right now for what needs to be replaced now and count on needing to do the rest soon.

Not to sound like I'm on a high horse as cash is short for me as well right now since buying a new home and paying for a wedding and honeymoon, but if you can't afford to throw a few hundred bucks at this car in any given instant get out from under it. This car requires maintenance and once you know it needs something done you will suffer even more the longer you wait to do it. I always thought I was good at staying on top of things and I've still been bitten a few times.

maxcooper

AAAAAAZZZZZZZ is what I meant -- compare it to the rubber bushing, which starts with low stiffness, and then the stiffness increases as you deflect the bushing more. A worn spherical bearing will have zero stiffness (A) until it "hits" the side of it's cup/pillow/whatever and becomes essentially rigid (Z). You will hear a clunk when it hits.

The letter sequence does not represent the stiffness of the bushing over it's life. It represents what happens with an already-worn bearing over a short period of time during which the center of the bushings deflects relative to the body. Maybe this is a better representation:

Rubber: GGHIJKLMNOP
Spherical: AAAZ

The spherical bearing develops play, which is worse than a worn rubber bushing since the suspension can flop around with no resistance.

Without a doubt, spherical bearings reach the "holy crap I must replace it" level much faster than rubber bushings on the FD. They clunk and flop when worn. Rubber bushings just get a little soft. 20K is not an uncommon lifetime for rod ends and spherical bearings on cars that are driven hard (and thus would get some benefit from upgraded bearings). I imagine someone has gotten 50K miles on some before they were screaming to be replaced, but with the number of "clunky suspension -- how can I fix?" messages on here, I suspect that most are a bit loose by 50K and downright sloppy at 100K. In contrast, I haven't seen any FD rubber bushings that were worn to the point that they must be replaced yet (except for motor mounts, and some reports of diff mounts).

-Max

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Hehe, I figured someone would jump on the budget thing. I have already dumped a few hundred this month into my daily driver, and a couple hundred into some almost-new primaries, an undented oil pan, and some new solenoids. Since I put mileage on the car slowly, putting it off a couple months isn't a big deal. It's a matter of the difference between what I can spend vs. what I should spend.

Dave