Ok so my rear water seal is failing im pretty sure, the coolant system isn't holding full prssure, and small puddles are appearing under the rear near the bell housing. The car hasn't ever been overheated or anything but it has 130,000 on the original seals (still has 94psi of compression due to my 'seal slap' project last year).

Anyhow i've determined its time for a full overhaul now before anything worse happens. I've already parked the car and am pulling off the accessories.

My question is, is there one rebuild kit that is a better buy that the other? I am pretty sure I want to go with aftermarket / pettit racing / pineapple racing/ water seals, but as far as the other stuff?

What do you guys think of the Atkins rotary rebuild kit?

I dont have alot of modifications done to the car and really dont plan on deviating from the stock twins.

Just want to restore it to an OEM type performance with some added protection. I need to call ray crowe and see what kind of pricing he offers on a OEM rebuild kit minus the water seals.

Last question, regarding the bearings... Just replace them while im in there yes? Stationary and Main?

 

Go OEM as far as water seals. They're proven and not questionable. Stay away from Adkins apex seals. Lastly, look at the bearings. If you've never over torqued the accessory belt your bearings could be okay. Just look for scraping and visible copper...

 

Ok i'll check the bearings as I go along, I have been looking heavily into the RA overhaul kit. Any cons to that kit that you can think of?

Just so many options and every search I do on here I come up with different answers lol. I kind of like the viton o-rings and Teflon coated water O rings in the RA setup.

 

Personally I like the pineapple heavy duty coolant o-ring kit. Ihor and I install it in most customer motors, I plan to run them on my next motor.

If your motor has more than 40-50k miles i'd definitely recommend replacing the bearings.

Ray has some very good pricing on rebuild kits, I'd go with all his parts (to include apex seals), with the pineapple coolant seal kit as an option.

 

RA apex seals are fine, but use OEM coolant o-rings:

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/honest-review-rotary-aviation-o-ring-kit-626610/

 

I love and support Pineapple racing but the coolant seals are a wash. I know someone who tore down a motor 1k after the rebuild and they were not "reusable."

 

Wow ok guys thanks for the input. Im going to call Ray first because while im on a semi-defined budget, i'll pay a little extra if I can get OEM Not to mention he always helps us guys out!

Bearings are going to be replaced no matter what! As far as I know, this is the engines first overhaul (amazing I know) and im still amazed at the compression.

 

this is the debate im seeing everywhere! OEM vs Pineapple/Pettit

 

Hm, don't know what to say. We have numerous customer cars running around with them installed, some for 2-3 years now. I like them for their (supposed) benefit of being more resilient towards high temps, not for their 'reuseability.'

 

Well i've got ALOT to think about it seems lol.

 

first off, congratulations on dealing w the problem BEFORE it takes out your motor. when you lose a coolant seal every compression stroke fires against the thin cast iron supportive rail. in relatively short order the rail is melted away and you have a boat anchor housing... so when you start to have coolant seal problems it is time to deal w it.

just to clear up a couple of items... Cam at Pettit uses OEM components including the watecoolant seals.

bearings... you have main/stationary gear bearings and you have rotor bearings. they are simple to diagnose and either will need to be replaced... or not. if they look good and offer proper clearance there is no need to replace them.

you do want to throw very far away mazda's dreadful 3 piece apex seals. they score the housings and bell-mouth the apex seal grooves. replace w 2 piece apex seals. OEM and Atkins both work well. Atkins also offers a very nice corner seal and an Viton oil control O ring.

absolutely replace every apex seal spring, side seal spring and oil control seal spring. replace the oil control O ring. replace the side seals and plan on spending a couple of hours properly gapping them to 2 thou.

if you are rebuilding your motor i recommend the Atkins DVD.

since you live in Az i recommend you review my thread in the 3rd Gen section that deals w AI. you will need it in Az.... hmmmm AI in AZ

when cleaning your motor pay special attention to removing everything that has accumulated in your coolant passages. all deposits, whether rust or minerals (use only distilled water w antifreeze) act as insulators against heat transfer. find someone w the proper cleaning tools for your motor components... you are looking for a soda blast cabinet and a high powered washer. you also need a good set of micrometers as well as all the specs...

good luck,

hc

 

Howard, I've seen two case of bearings with ~60k miles under teardown (that looked good and were reused) spinning at less than 100k miles and destroying an otherwise good motor. It's my personal opinion that skimping on bearings isn't a good idea, many people are intimidated by the chore of properly pressing them in and out but it pays dividends in the long run. If they're almost new or fairly low-mileage then by all means reuse them, but otherwise...... my 2 cents

///Rich, i agree w you and replace all the bearings in 95% of my motors w a 12 ton press and fittings. every now and then on a low miles motor that is pristine if everything properly lines up i don't have a problem retaining bearings. generally when a rotary fails it isn't the bearing that is the root cause. hc///

 

What about re-using side seals? I thought it was acceptable...obviously as long as you reinstalled in the same positions and used new springs. No?

 

Side seals are relatively cheap. I would never reuse them unless the motor had maybe a few miles on it and had to come apart for a different reason. Just seems pointless.

 

Well I plan on going all the way in terms of seals and bearings. The vast majority of the components (except the apex seals) have 130k on them so its time to replace them all.

Im leaning towards the RA kit with OEM water seals and OEM bearings.

As for nipping it in the bud, thats just how I like to do things. The car has only one more trip of 2 miles before its getting torn apart (from my complex to the parents two car garage). Hopefully the housings are reusable as those are the 'project killers' for me. If they are garbage, the car will probably be sitting for a LONG time.

 

With 130k miles you are going to most likely have significant rotor housing wear.

 

Wont really know till i get there unfortunetly

 

Viton has proven to be more chemical and temperature resistant tan rubber or neoprene or even silicone

If it seals just as well as oem, I am partial to viton. and re-using a water seal is just pinching pennies that could cost you dollars.


And which engines came with the oem 3 piece apex seals? I thought all the 93-95 fds had 2 piece?

 

For many years the mazda remans came with the 3 piece 2mm seals.

Integrals, you're going to want an entirely new motor. Your rotor housings will be very worn, and your irons will be getting up there in mileage, not to mention your oil pump. We usually recommend going that route to customers with anything more than about 75k miles or so, you're approaching double that.

 

Any well known companies that have achieved great feats with our engines only use OEM coolant seals. Rich, on the product page for the Pineapple coolant seals it deliberately states "Also, these seals are re-usable if you need to reopen the motor to freshen it." http://www.pineappleracing.com/index...PROD&ProdID=99

The rotor bearings are a non wear item, I guess if you're really **** about your setup your could replace them but if there's no wear marks and they're in spec I would reuse them.

The factory built motors and possibly immediately built reman motors are the only motors to have the factory 3 piece apex seals in them. I agree that if this is the factory motor the rotor housings are going be be surely worn out. Typical signs of this is a VERY shiny surface. Make sure to check wear on your irons toward the outside where the side seal wears. That's the easiest part to start on. Next would be the oil control ring area where it's pretty hard to pickup as it's .001". You'll likely want to use a SST or get a sure flat surface and use a regular dial indicator.

 

Bearings definitely wear. The stationary gear bearings take the majority of the load but I think it would be silly to not replace them all. A bearing set is less than $200 anyway. I think people press them wrong and deform the bearing, then the e-shaft won't slide through and you have problems. We freeze the bearings and use lock tite. We only use the mazda sst. I have never had a bearing spin on me using these methods except one case where a customer ran the car low on oil. The other issue is when using a brand new e-shaft. You have to make sure the bearing clearances are correct. Many times you have to order a larger size bearing.

 

I plan on inspecting the housings and plates for wear, as the last rotary I helped with had 127k on it, and all the housings and plates were within spec, reused and its currently making over 400whp on a small single with no issues thus far!

 

Precisely, you're right on track! Just check out all your specifications and use some common sense. For example, when they give you .010" to play with I personally wouldn't go with anything more than .007" if I wanted a stout motor. While you're in there remember to crush the rear oil pressure regulator, remove the front pellet, and with the 3 m7 washers. Oiling and coolant modifications go a long way with these motors...

 

Crush the rear oil presure regulator? Can you elaborate?

This thread should be archived it has a lot of useful insight.

I have a personal excel chart I made for parts I thought would be good in a budget rebuild. Comments are appreciated. I basically did all the homework.

 

Well im actually in the midst of this whole mess right now, however i've stumbled upon a total newb question.

The 2 piece apex seals, which end does the corner seal sit at, the F or R of the rotor, and are they supposed to be 'one' piece?

EDIT: I found one of my answers, the 3rd gens come glued together like that... And I think i found the second answer, the Corner seal goes towards the rear of the ENGINE!