Rebuild gurus! Outer Oil seal too tight?
05-24-06, 12:40 AM
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Rebuild gurus! Outer Oil seal too tight?
When I install the oil seal rings onto the rotors, they're supposed to be free and have spring tension right? I know the outer oil seal ring is harder to put in, but is it also supposed to have more tension? With both oil rings in, I can "bounce"(you rebuilders should know what I mean 
) the inner oil ring alot easier than the outer one. Oil seal protrusion for inner and outer are both about .061". Is that too high? The specs in my pdf manual only show min. protrusion so I'm worried that the ring isn't seated all the way down or if they're supposed to be like that. Sooooo main questions....
1. Is the outer oil ring supposed to be harder to "bounce"?
2. What do you guys usually get for the protrusion measurements with a used rotor w/ new oil ring seals and o-rings?
3. Will installing the rotor like that cause accelerated wear to the side housings causing oil burn ups?
Thanks in advance.
Jeremy
P.S. For those of you that are noticing that I'm posting alot of rebuild questions... you've probably figured out by now that it's my first rotary rebuild :/
) the inner oil ring alot easier than the outer one. Oil seal protrusion for inner and outer are both about .061". Is that too high? The specs in my pdf manual only show min. protrusion so I'm worried that the ring isn't seated all the way down or if they're supposed to be like that. Sooooo main questions....1. Is the outer oil ring supposed to be harder to "bounce"?
2. What do you guys usually get for the protrusion measurements with a used rotor w/ new oil ring seals and o-rings?
3. Will installing the rotor like that cause accelerated wear to the side housings causing oil burn ups?
Thanks in advance.
Jeremy
P.S. For those of you that are noticing that I'm posting alot of rebuild questions... you've probably figured out by now that it's my first rotary rebuild :/
!!!! no one at all in almost 2 days????
05-24-06, 10:22 PM
#5
05-25-06, 02:34 AM
#6
The outer doesnt usually protrude as much as the inner, and the outer is both harder to install, and harder to push in. Part of the beauty of the rotary engine is that all the bottom sprung seals seat themselves automatically when the engine is tensioned down, provided clearances are correct and everything is clean.
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05-25-06, 10:56 AM
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I guess I should plug Atkins Viton oil control O-rings here. I just installed mine this weekend and they seemed to work great as far as assembly goes. They were a little more resistant to seating on the outer than the inner, but I didn't have to shoe horn them in at all.
Hey, Kevin my short block is almost complete. The last thing I did was check my end play, which turned out in spec! Now I won't have to wait on an over night ship from Malloy in order to hammer it all weekend.
Terry7
Hey, Kevin my short block is almost complete. The last thing I did was check my end play, which turned out in spec! Now I won't have to wait on an over night ship from Malloy in order to hammer it all weekend.
Terry7
05-25-06, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
The outer doesnt usually protrude as much as the inner, and the outer is both harder to install, and harder to push in. Part of the beauty of the rotary engine is that all the bottom sprung seals seat themselves automatically when the engine is tensioned down, provided clearances are correct and everything is clean.
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Btw Jeremy, did you make sure that you installed the oil control springs in the correct orientation?
I'm glad everything is ok... right now im on the clearancing on the side seals. That video and what people say is no joke, its REALLY easy to go too far with the grinding. Also, "Install with chamfered side facing down"? Looking at my side seals(Rotary Resources Master Rebuild kit), I see no difference in color or surface on either sides. So does it still matter which side goes toward the side seal spring? Maybe I'm just being blind? I can take pictures if you guys would like.
Jeremy
05-25-06, 02:33 PM
#10
IF you have new oil springs, they are color coded to tell you where they go. If you are reusing them (which is perfectly fine) you have to figure out which way they should be oriented...they are directional, they form a lock to keep the seal from rotating counter to the rotor's direction due to resistance.
It's possible to have the round side down and the flat side up and still have the spring in the wrong place. This wouldnt cause an immediate failure, but in 50k miles you might start to see more smoke due to oil control ring wear because they started spinning after they wore down a bit.
It's possible to have the round side down and the flat side up and still have the spring in the wrong place. This wouldnt cause an immediate failure, but in 50k miles you might start to see more smoke due to oil control ring wear because they started spinning after they wore down a bit.
05-25-06, 08:17 PM
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Hmmmmm, well yeah I'm re-using my old springs. The round side, is faced down and is sitting in that little dimpled dot in the rotor. And I have the flat side up... sitting inside that indent on the oil control ring. That's correct right?
BTW, I gave my thumb a nice good slit during the process of that outer oil ring. I guess sliding your thumb around with costco latex gloves isn't really a very smart thing to do lol.
Jeremy
BTW, I gave my thumb a nice good slit during the process of that outer oil ring. I guess sliding your thumb around with costco latex gloves isn't really a very smart thing to do lol.
Jeremy
05-25-06, 09:56 PM
#12
You still dont understand. Think of the round edge on the spring as being an arrow. < and >. So one spring, when the round part is down, points counterclockwise, and one points clockwise.
Now hold the rotor in your hand. Imagine you are standing in front of the engine and you can see how the rotor spins. Face the gear side toward you. Spin it clockwise. Now, hold your other palm against the face of the rotor, simulating the iron surface. Any circular oil control ring rubs against that iron, and would be subject to friction. So the rotor would spin clockwise, and the ring might tend to resist that motion, and move counterclockwise in relation to the rotor.
To counteract this the springs form a lock. By putting the counterclockwise spring on the front face of each rotor, you keep the ring from spinning. To demonstrate this, take an empty control ring without the rubber insert, and a spring. Lay the ring on the spring, in the rotor, and do the above test. Youll see how it forms a lock in one direction of rotation.
The rear of each rotor gets the clockwise spring. When you do the build you must pick a rotor for front, and one for back, before you install the seals...the rotors are the same, but you have to know how to orient the seals and springs.
Now hold the rotor in your hand. Imagine you are standing in front of the engine and you can see how the rotor spins. Face the gear side toward you. Spin it clockwise. Now, hold your other palm against the face of the rotor, simulating the iron surface. Any circular oil control ring rubs against that iron, and would be subject to friction. So the rotor would spin clockwise, and the ring might tend to resist that motion, and move counterclockwise in relation to the rotor.
To counteract this the springs form a lock. By putting the counterclockwise spring on the front face of each rotor, you keep the ring from spinning. To demonstrate this, take an empty control ring without the rubber insert, and a spring. Lay the ring on the spring, in the rotor, and do the above test. Youll see how it forms a lock in one direction of rotation.
The rear of each rotor gets the clockwise spring. When you do the build you must pick a rotor for front, and one for back, before you install the seals...the rotors are the same, but you have to know how to orient the seals and springs.
05-26-06, 05:59 AM
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That's funny! I cut my thumb too! I thought I was the only dumb ***. What's worse I had five more side seals to clearance when I cut mine. Maybe there should be a warning thread with a sticky to let us newb re-builders avoid some hazards.
Terry7
Terry7
05-26-06, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
You still dont understand. Think of the round edge on the spring as being an arrow. < and >. So one spring, when the round part is down, points counterclockwise, and one points clockwise.
Now hold the rotor in your hand. Imagine you are standing in front of the engine and you can see how the rotor spins. Face the gear side toward you. Spin it clockwise. Now, hold your other palm against the face of the rotor, simulating the iron surface. Any circular oil control ring rubs against that iron, and would be subject to friction. So the rotor would spin clockwise, and the ring might tend to resist that motion, and move counterclockwise in relation to the rotor.
To counteract this the springs form a lock. By putting the counterclockwise spring on the front face of each rotor, you keep the ring from spinning. To demonstrate this, take an empty control ring without the rubber insert, and a spring. Lay the ring on the spring, in the rotor, and do the above test. Youll see how it forms a lock in one direction of rotation.
The rear of each rotor gets the clockwise spring. When you do the build you must pick a rotor for front, and one for back, before you install the seals...the rotors are the same, but you have to know how to orient the seals and springs.
Now hold the rotor in your hand. Imagine you are standing in front of the engine and you can see how the rotor spins. Face the gear side toward you. Spin it clockwise. Now, hold your other palm against the face of the rotor, simulating the iron surface. Any circular oil control ring rubs against that iron, and would be subject to friction. So the rotor would spin clockwise, and the ring might tend to resist that motion, and move counterclockwise in relation to the rotor.
To counteract this the springs form a lock. By putting the counterclockwise spring on the front face of each rotor, you keep the ring from spinning. To demonstrate this, take an empty control ring without the rubber insert, and a spring. Lay the ring on the spring, in the rotor, and do the above test. Youll see how it forms a lock in one direction of rotation.
The rear of each rotor gets the clockwise spring. When you do the build you must pick a rotor for front, and one for back, before you install the seals...the rotors are the same, but you have to know how to orient the seals and springs.
