RollnDrty

I intend to upgrade my radiator and intercooler when I take my car out of storage (another month or so). While considering both front-mount and stock-mount intercoolers, I have also had my eye on the RE Amemiya V-mount that includes both the IC and radiator in one package, designed to allow maximum air flow to both the IC and the radiator. For those who are unfamiliar, here is a link.... http://www.rotaryextreme.com/revmount.html

Does anyone have this setup? Can you tell me more about it? How well does it perform compared to FMIC and SMIC alternatives? Were there any fitment issues? Other than its price tag it looks like an ideal setup. If anyone can give me more information other than what the link provides I'd appreciate it. All responses are more than welcome.

FD3S_RS

I would think that the V-mount would be similar to a stock mount like the M2 Med & M2 large. Both rams air from the front by their ducting, not directly like FMIC.Then again, at least it is not blocking the radiator.Just a thought. I might be wrong

BoostedRex

The V mount is the best working IC out there IF AND ONLY IF you are running a vented hood and preferrably an aftermarket front end with larger openings to let the air in. But it's the vented hood that makes the biggest difference. That is what's gonna really pull the air through to keep everything cooled off. That's just what I've learned over the past several months. From what I've been told by people who do run the V mount it's the best thing going short of a freon cooled IC. But surely something to keep in mind if you don't have a vented hood then you'd be just as happy with a good SMIC. Just my .02 Hope it helps.

Zach

Nameless

Just so you know that isnt an RE amemiya V-mount, that's Rotary Extreme's (Chuck's) work. Email him for more info about fitment. Last I remember there is something with the fuse box relocation and power steering line (I think) bending.

FD3S_RS

KNIGHTSPORTS also makes a V-mount for Yen 298,000. Just for your info

Nameless

KS does make one, and they have a beautiful intake to go with the Vmount. Compared to RotaryExtreme's tv-mount he KS intercooler is smaller.

Chronos

First of all, the Rotary Extreme (Not RE Amemiya :P) V-mount IC system flows 935cfm as opposed to 750 from the next highest flowing unit, the M2 Large. So it's going to flow better with or without a vented hood since the SMIC system doesn't have any venting. The reason for this is it uses newer intercooler technology that yeilds more flow per volume.

Second, while you're right about the M2 Large or Med SMIC vs a FMIC, the same isn't nessassarily true with a V-mount system. The reason for this is the VMIC expells the air out of the engine bay so there's nothing left to push back against incoming air. In fact, if you think about it, the FMIC would theoretically actually have more pressure pushing against it than the VMIC because once the air goes through it's "trapped" in the engine bay and has to find some way out (same as the SMIC), this would create more pressure in the engine bay and be harder for air to enter in the IC. However, FMIC's are far larger and angled adjacent to incoming air yeilding the highest flow rates, this type of system would only be optimal and efficiant if you don't run the car for any sustained period, or are running low enough power levels that an oversized radiator can compensate volume for airflow. (most of the FMIC Japanese racing cars used to overheat...they now have pretty much all switched to VMIC systems)

Another point to consider is not only does the vented hood system provide an outlet for the rushing air to flow through with no resistance, it also creates a vacuum effect when the car is moving because air rushing over the hood is going to create a low pressure area near the vents which will "suck" air through. This will also happen with the air flowing under the car for the radiator. For maximum efficiancy (which no one will EVER need) a vent connecting to the top of the IC and to the vents in the hood would yeild %100 air evacuation and at the same time distribute %100 of the vacuum effect created by the air rushing over the hood directly to the IC.

Ok, Everyone get all that?!? let's review........JK

P.S.

I don't see why you couldn't incorporate a freon system to work with the VMIC.

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

Judging by the pictures that I have seen from the Tokyo Auto Salon I believe RE Amemiya does make a V-mount intercooler. Eventhough the IC Rollndrty was looking at was Rotarty Xtreme, I like the V-mount setup RE-Amemiya has on his cars.

ttpowerd

That one is rotary extremes kit which is more like a horizontal mount. THe only other one that I have seen is the knightsports which is a true v mount.

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

Like this one

ttpowerd

You would have a hard time getting a single turbo to fit with that Looks great though!!

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

V-mount means no air conditioning (without a ****-load of work at least).... I'd wager to guess that if you took the A/C radiator out of the equation (i wouldn't) most any IC/Rad combo would work just fine.

RollnDrty

Definately dont want to take the A/C out... anyone know what it would take to install a V-mount application (RE Amemiya, Rotary Extreme, or Knightsports), while keeping all necessary components of the a/c? I am running an Apexi Power Intake, so I dont know if that will get in the way either.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Sorry but your info is wrong. Ours is a true v mount. We were offering the HMIC at the same time so maybe you got confused.

Chuck Huang

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

The RE Amemiya one and Knight Sports one will let you keep the A/C. The Version II Rotary Extreme V mount will let you keep the AC as well. The Knight Sports one or the RE Amemiya one do not look like they will work with a single turbo. Mine does. I have photos on the web to show it too.

Chuck Huang

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

How much will they go for?

RollnDrty

I have continued looking around about this subject, and have done searches....can anyone point me in the right direction for the RE-Amemiya V-mount? (link please) I have found the RE and the Knightsports versions, but want to see the Amemiya one for comparison purposes. Thanks.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Thats great news, Chuck, but i've gotta ask:

How the heck is that gonna work (with the A/C that is)? I would think you'd have to entirely re-line the A/C plumbing... and then, where would the condenser sit? Certainly it can't stay where it is....

Kevin T. Wyum

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BoostedRex
The V mount is the best working IC out there IF AND ONLY IF you are running a vented hood and preferrably an aftermarket front end with larger openings to let the air in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

Who decided the V mount was the best working IC out there? This seems like a pretty large unfounded leap to have this conclusion. As for a vented hood, well think about it, it would help an SMIC just as much as a V-mount. If you're including a new vented hood into the equation you better start assuming both the SMIC and Vmount car have the vented hood.





"First of all, the Rotary Extreme (Not RE Amemiya :P) V-mount IC system flows 935cfm as opposed to 750 from the next highest flowing unit, the M2 Large. ..."

That would have been true to say a few years ago but the large IC uses different cores now and has for a while. You should also mention the flow numbers you're posting are only relative to pressure drop. Do you know what pressure drop the 935cfm is measured at? If so I can give you an approximate on the new cores flow at the same drop.


"...So it's going to flow better with or without a vented hood since the SMIC system doesn't have any venting...."

Huh? What venting?

"...The reason for this is it uses newer intercooler technology that yeilds more flow per volume. "

Well since you apparently don't know which core is used now I'll assume this statement is false or at the very least unknown at this time.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by FD3S_RS
I would think that the V-mount would be similar to a stock mount like the M2 Med & M2 large. Both rams air from the front by their ducting, not directly like FMIC.Then again, at least it is not blocking the radiator.Just a thought. I might be wrong
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"Second, while you're right about the M2 Large or Med SMIC vs a FMIC, the same isn't nessassarily true with a V-mount system. The reason for this is the VMIC expells the air out of the engine bay so there's nothing left to push back against incoming air. ..."

(Boggle) You lost me here. How does a V-mount expel air any differently out of the engine bay? I hope you're not talking about a vented hood again. BTW the post you quoted above was right. From everything I've seen of these V-mounts once a vented hood is added an SMIC and a V mount should behave just the same in general.

"In fact, if you think about it, the FMIC would theoretically actually have more pressure pushing against it than the VMIC because once the air goes through it's "trapped" in the engine bay and has to find some way out (same as the SMIC), this would create more pressure in the engine bay and be harder for air to enter in the IC...."

None of this is making any sense at all unless you're simply talking about a car with a vented hood as opposed to one without. If that's the case why is the Vmount even being mentioned? You're talking about hoods, not intercoolers.


(snipped some FMIC talk)



"...This will also happen with the air flowing under the car for the radiator...."

Wouldn't this cause turbulent airflow under the car which is a big no no? All those flat plastic panels are there for a reason. Ever seen the bottom of an F1 car?


"For maximum efficiancy (which no one will EVER need) a vent connecting to the top of the IC and to the vents in the hood would yeild %100 air evacuation and at the same time distribute %100 of the vacuum effect created by the air rushing over the hood directly to the IC. "

That's actually the right way to do it. Although the part about distributing 100% of the vacuum effect of the hood isn't true. It would only apply to the surface area of the vent opening.

I think you're making a large number of unsubstantiated assumptions about things in your post and actually some of the assumptions are outright false. Let me know on the pressure drop numbers btw and I'll give you some real flow numbers.

Kevin T. Wyum

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Here is another one for you guys.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=1264807

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Hello Kevin, I guess you are done moving. How do you like the new house? =)

Anyway, The core I am using for my V-mount is a Spearco new tube and fin core. It flows 935 CFM at 1.5 psi pressure drop. I understand the intercooler concept. It can flow more but the pressure drop will be higher. All the testing data on the Spearco intercoolers are referenced with the 1.5 psi pressure drop. I have the new Spearco catalog. If you don't know the exact flow rate at 1.5 pressure drop of your core, I can look it up for you. I can scan the flow chart and post it for you too. My core is the 3-101.

V mount IC works better than the stock mount IC with the stock size duct simply because it has more air exposure. Why does FMIC performs better than a SMIC on cooling? Simply because it has more air exposure. It's the same idea.

You can still use the underpanel with the V mount. I will find time to take a pic of it sometime this week.

V mount IC will work better with a vented hood because the vent is right above it. On the stock mount IC, the hot air will disperse in all directions. The hot air going out of the vent will be less for sure.

Another advantage of the v mount is that the hot air from the radiator is blowing to the bottom of the car, not directly toward the IC. The IC should be heat soaked less.

The V mount is a compromise between the stock mount IC and a FMIC. While stock mount IC has more air going through the radiator, the air going through the IC is limited by the opening of the intercooler duct. While FMIC has full air blowing through the IC, the radiator is getting the heated air from it. The amount of air flowing through the nose is limited by the opening of it. You will have to distribute the air between that going through the radiator and that going through the intercooler. The intercooler should take less air to achieve the cooling effect simply because air has much smaller heat capacity coefficient than water. So how we distribute the air flow determines the best set up. If you can prove that more air flowing through the SMIC will not increase the cooling effect of it, a V Mount will not be necessary even though it gets more air flow. If that's the case, a FMIC will not cool better than a SMIC either, even though FMIC gets more air through the IC. It has been proven by the users that a FMIC does cool better than a SMIC so that VMIC that gets more air flow through the IC should cool better as well, assuming the size of the IC is the same on all of them.

Chuck Huang

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

I think wether they both have a vented hood or not is not where the argument lies, but the fact that the stock mount IC's all feed through a 1" by 6" slit so getting good flow across the whole core would not be as adequate, not to mention the whole angle on the SMIC doesn't quite work as well as a more horizontal one for venting through the hood.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Exept for one thing the IC duct is no longer sitting on top of the radiator fans, neither is the IC for that matter, kinda think that would be a little more eff. as far as hot air being blown on the IC.

suganuma

well....

I have Chuck's v-mount setup on my car. It works great.
At a recent road event, I never saw my coolant temps rise above 186, but did not have my laptop logging my intake temps....i will have to do that some other time. I can, however, say that my intake temps just driving around on the street are VERY low. I do not have a vented hood and have not even finished (barely started) the shrouding for the IC or Radiator and am getting these results. I plan to hack up and do some welding on my hood to create a sealed duct to the backside of the IC and of course finish the shrouding in the near future....just having a hard time finding a tig welder to use...along with time

I recieved a prototype of the v-mount from chuck which i modifed to work with my single turbo. the way the ducting was before, there were a few fitment problems with the stock hood that should be long sorted out by now as this was in the fall. Among the changes that i remember making....the IC was lowered and moved forward a bit to mate better with the radiator and expose as much of the IC surface as possible. the "mouth" of the V actually fits perfectly inside of the stock bumper with the mounts that i made and angle that the radiator currently sits at. There should be pictuers of my car floating around the forum somewhere and the engine picture on chuck's site of the setup is actually my car.

As a prototype, the above was the purpose....to try fitment on another car and see what problems another person could come up with to help it be more user friendly and possibly perform better. Chuck has a very high standard of quality put into all of his work as i am sure all of you know. I have no reason to doubt that the version that Chuck sells will have no fitment problems and be a bolt up "kit"

as for the a/c issue. i personally do not run air conditioning, but didnt see where there would really be any major hurdles to keep the lines and drier intact. I am sure that he has since fixed any problems that he found and adopted my changes to the design as he thought necessary.

I would highly recommend this setup to anyone wanting to avoid the FMIC, SMIC debate BS and just get as much air and surface exposure as possible to BOTH heat exhangers.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

This would all depend on where how the air is routed or diffused.
The set up I'm finishing will not divert directly under the car but more torwards the wheels.