Rat's Nest Alternatives
09-05-09, 09:29 AM
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Rat's Nest Alternatives
Hey guys,
I've had a lot of brainstorming time (driving up and down the east coast on I-95), and I was kind of curious if anyone had ever attempted to create an electronic turbo control system for the stock twins? I've been looking (more or less to no avail) for something that outlines exactly what all of the inputs/outputs to the twins are.
As far as I can tell the pressure/vacuum levels achieved at various points throughout the system alert sensors which in turn trigger other solenoids opening which causes an infernal rube-goldberg like mechanic to ultimately spool up/shut down the 2nd turbo. THERE HAS TO BE AN EASIER WAY.
I've got a reasonable background in microchip programming and system controls, and I'd be really interested in coming up with a system to replace the rat's nest and under-the-hood-craziness in stock twin FD's.
What I'm asking is how does the system currently operate? A tech manual of flow chart would be super helpful, as well as any input/advice.
Thanks,
-Chris
I've had a lot of brainstorming time (driving up and down the east coast on I-95), and I was kind of curious if anyone had ever attempted to create an electronic turbo control system for the stock twins? I've been looking (more or less to no avail) for something that outlines exactly what all of the inputs/outputs to the twins are.
As far as I can tell the pressure/vacuum levels achieved at various points throughout the system alert sensors which in turn trigger other solenoids opening which causes an infernal rube-goldberg like mechanic to ultimately spool up/shut down the 2nd turbo. THERE HAS TO BE AN EASIER WAY.
I've got a reasonable background in microchip programming and system controls, and I'd be really interested in coming up with a system to replace the rat's nest and under-the-hood-craziness in stock twin FD's.
What I'm asking is how does the system currently operate? A tech manual of flow chart would be super helpful, as well as any input/advice.
Thanks,
-Chris
09-05-09, 09:30 AM
#2
09-05-09, 01:56 PM
#4
Someone recently discussed replacing the turbo control actuator with an all electronic actuator.
The challenge, very roughly speaking, is that electronic actuators would need to be fast acting, very heat tolerant, and not consume too much power. You can measure the rod throw, and actuation force is pretty simple assuming 10psi on the pressure side and 20inHg of vacuum. All of them close or open in a fraction of a second.
The current design is elegant in the sense that it borrows manifold pressure or vacuum to power the pneumatic actuators. The solenoids are low power on/off switches that operate mostly based on load and RPM. The other half of the rats nest is emissions stuff.
I know the autosportracetech site mentions that the secondary will only work if the primary works, but my experience is that's not a big issue.
My approach to the rats nest is straightforward if not a big tedious: take it all apart, test each component thoroughly, put it back together correctly buy using the diagrams and replacing any component that is questionable. This IMHO is much simpler than re-engineering the system in part or in whole. Of course if it's your specialty the extra work might not be an issue, so please share what you're thinking and what parts might do the job.
Dave
The challenge, very roughly speaking, is that electronic actuators would need to be fast acting, very heat tolerant, and not consume too much power. You can measure the rod throw, and actuation force is pretty simple assuming 10psi on the pressure side and 20inHg of vacuum. All of them close or open in a fraction of a second.
The current design is elegant in the sense that it borrows manifold pressure or vacuum to power the pneumatic actuators. The solenoids are low power on/off switches that operate mostly based on load and RPM. The other half of the rats nest is emissions stuff.
I know the autosportracetech site mentions that the secondary will only work if the primary works, but my experience is that's not a big issue.
My approach to the rats nest is straightforward if not a big tedious: take it all apart, test each component thoroughly, put it back together correctly buy using the diagrams and replacing any component that is questionable. This IMHO is much simpler than re-engineering the system in part or in whole. Of course if it's your specialty the extra work might not be an issue, so please share what you're thinking and what parts might do the job.
Dave
09-06-09, 01:04 PM
#5
I've had little problem with the so-called "rats nest" in 16 years. Only about half of it is turbo control related anyway. The pressure side TCA solenoid appears to be the most problematic control, based on my experience and I devised a simple work around for its common failure mode.
Moreover, I previously looked at re-engineering the system and found little to gain. The existing system could be better integrated (as it was in the later jdm models). The pneumatic system really makes a lot of sense once you calculate the forces (and speed) you need to switch the TCA actuator--it is not well suited to electric actuator operation at all.
Moreover, I previously looked at re-engineering the system and found little to gain. The existing system could be better integrated (as it was in the later jdm models). The pneumatic system really makes a lot of sense once you calculate the forces (and speed) you need to switch the TCA actuator--it is not well suited to electric actuator operation at all.
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