RX 4 Speed

Folks, I tried searching but got through page 4 and couldn't really find what I was looking for.

My question is this... What parts are exactly needed to "lower" the FD? My FD has stock rims and stock suspension, springs, etc. I am planning to get 18's this summer, and always knew that lowering the FD must definitely accompany the new rims and tires. Is it just springs that I need? or springs and shocks? How about the difference between springs and coil overs? are they the same?

I was looking on RX7.com, and they have springs as low as 250 or 300... it would be nice if that is all I need... oh well.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

impactwrench

I'm wondering the same thing. Can I cut the stock coils down for awhile until I have the money to do it the right way?

pugg57

technically yes, all you need is the springs, but that will only improve the ride quality so much and can lead to your struts wearing out prematurely. it is a viable alternative for the time being though. coil-overs over you the adjustable height and dampening alot of people are looking for but if you are just looking for a good ride quality new springs and perhaps some Tokico Illumina's or Koni adjustable struts would serve you just fine down the road a little further.

this statement deserves one and only one answer... yes, you can, but that would make you a complete dumbass. you can get a nice set of H&R springs from Corksport.com for $228 and shipping, rent the damn tool and mount 'em up yourself.

RX 4 Speed

thanks for the info... so it sounds like springs are all I need? Keep in mind that my suspension is all stock and is 12 years old, pretty much. How much will I wear those struts prematurely if I leave the stock struts on and just get new springs? I heard HKS or Eibach are good brands... anything else? Lastly, from your last comment, I am guessing you are suggesting that I do it myself as well??? How tough a job is it?

RX7-2JOCK

Only if you have a Civic

pugg57

i've not done it on my RSX... only changed 'em on my old 944 but figure an afternoon and a buddy and it'll be done. H&R springs are the only ones that i've NEVER heard anyone having rubbing issues with. how soon the struts will wear out depends on the mileage of you car and all that other stuff. if you wanna drop it right away, i suggest the springs (NOT CUTTING THE OLD ONES... augh, cheap bastards) and within a year or so if you can, purchase some new struts ya know? its easiest to do it all at once 'cause then you don't have to do it twice, but i fully understand the budget issues... although, perhaps you should do the suspension correctly first, then worry about getting the bling 18's down the road? that would be my approach, but your car is not my car, so take it for what its worth.

PhoenixDownVII

Please, please, do it right the first time:

Cutting springs or buying springs and wearing out your struts are both no-no's. The FD doesn't deserve it, maybe your honda, but not the FD.

The FD is an awesome handling street car, if you want to lower it, do it right to improve on something already this magnificent.

Your options are coil-overs (more expensive, but adjustable) or springs/shock set.

The idea of "rubbing" depends more greatly on your choice in rims & TIRE size. A drop of 1-2" is all your FD needs to look better, be lower, and perform better.

If money is tight, I advise you go the suspension route first. If you buy rims before suspension, you'll get the "4X4" look. A lowered FD on stock rims looks better IMO.

I also suggest you look into 17's, since 18's are rather large and heavy, and might require your fenders to be rolled if you buy big enough offset/tires. Plus, since you want to cut costs so much, 17's will be more affordable for both the rims and tires!

uxcFD

i agree with this, by the sounds of it '18s dont sound like a good idea.

impactwrench

Lets see, in 2004
wheels and tires.......$3000
intercooler.................$1700
single turbo...............$2800
boost controller.........$500
fuel/ injector upgrade $1600

Cheap........I don't think so. Stupid........definately

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

my first suggestion is to go to the suspension section and do a search. there is a wealth of info there.

that said, because i somewhat disagree w some of the foregoing i will add my 2 cents.

firstly, i have roadraced successfully for 22 seasons... SCCA Nats. including, among other things a silver medal at the Runoffs/Road atlanta in a tube frame mazda. suspensions have always been the strongest part of my program.

i have a digital spring rate checker, and a shock dyno. BTW the word STRUTS should never appear in a 3rd gen site as 3rd gens don’t have struts. they have shock absorbers. inferior suspensions have struts. struts have NO camber gain on bump.

assuming you want a dual purpose setup... street and track:

you really can have it all cheaply.

the stock fd has 263 pound/inch front springs and 195 pound/inch rear springs. softer in the rear because the challenge for all front engine rear drive cars is hooking up the rear end under corner exit. the softer end sticks the best so to trim the car longitudinally you need softer springs, less rear air pressure (30 fr 27-28 rear set cold), a smaller rear bar (or no rear bar), larger rear tires and if you want to really rip more static weight in the rear. I run 48% front 52% rear .

softer springs in the rear.

Then there’s lateral weight transfer….

The only 2 things that change it are center of gravity (that’s why low is FAST) and track width… wider being better.

Most people think by putting stiff springs ( stiff is SLOW) in their car and bouncing off the pavement down the road they will corner faster as they will decrease lateral weight transfer along with body roll.

Not so

Degree of fd body roll has almost no effect on cornering speed nor lateral weight transfer. Cars that have STRUTS ( fd’s don’t) have to run too much spring as when the chassis rolls so does the wheel and it goes off camber. We have double A arms and our wheel stays put as to camber.

So no need for stiff springs to retain proper dynamic geometry.

Stiff suspensions do NOT change lateral weight transfer but they do change how fast it transfers. Stiff is harder to drive at the limit for this reason. Notice just before a Nascar restart as the cars weave back and forth heating their tires… lots of roll. Formula cars don’t roll as they need ultra stiff springs to offset the 3 g’s of downforce.

You can buy well built inexpensive ( around 225$) springs for the fd in a variety of rates….

Front rear
Stock 263 195


Eibach Pro Kit 350 255
Tein S Tech 440 320
Tein H Tech 390 290

There are lots of people on the site that have various springs and I am sure would be happy to chime in. I do know more than one person running the Eibachs that has told me their springs are their single favorite mod. My wife runs them on her fd w goodyear F1s and loves them. She has a heavy right foot.

Remember I mentioned I have a shock dynomometer. I have tested over 30 stock fd shocks including R1s. interestingly, all but one tested exactly the same and that included a spread of between 3500 miles from new up to over 100,000 miles. The malfunctioning shock had a hydraulic leak.

I know the profile of the stock shock as well as many aftermarket shocks. The stock oem shock is excellently engineered for the Eibach/Tein spring rates.

The executive summary is that many fd owners would be delighted running an additional 33% additional spring rate w the stock shocks. I recommend you do that first and I predict you will be shocked (sorry) at how much more fun your car is to drive. Just make sure you run 30 front 28-7 rear set cold, about 1.2 degrees neg camber, 1/8 toe in and zero thrust angle.

I run 18 s 8.5 fr 10 rear but I hear good things about 17s also.

Enjoy,

howard coleman

sonix7

go howard. that was technical and one of the most informative responses I have seen. great info. what would you go with (brand and models) if you were just keeping it daily driver and comfortable but fun. I heard all the specs but want to know what you think would be the best for this scenario. I am thinking about tien springs and koni adjustables. I have 18 x 9.5 in back and 18 x 8.5 in front. I am just about to purchase a suspension setup and could use some advice.howard or anyone?

danny hahn

Nice reply,

Previous owner put eibach low spring 1.0 bought at NOPI (404)366-4466 in 1999 lowering the front. Whereas I don't know what the car handled like before that, I can say that the car sucks the road on straightaways at amazingly excessive speeds. I had an MR2 that felt unstable at 103mph and other RX7 drivers less than a handful who I've asked the question at what speed does your car feel unstable and many say 110. I just have them on the front and stock shocks and wheels.

About the rear anti-sway, you suggest going without?

I'm asking this because over time the brackets came undone. and I'm investigating some recent handling issues after replacing the rack and pinion, still doesn't feel tight enough. will check the tire balance and rim condition and ask my mechanic about the front end stuff.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

sonix7
i like your staggered wheel size. it is a jump ball between the Eibach and Teins. the Teins have a bit more rate but they both will transform your car. while you don't need an aftermarket shock i do like Konis. just dont run them too stiff... probably close to full soft in the rear.

danny,
you have Eibachs on the front and stock springs in the rear? the car should understeer and the roll centers are out of trim too. check to see that you really have what you think you have upfront ( Eibachs will have a model tag on each spring). if so spend $100 and buy the rears. Eibach does sell them separately.

as to high speed fd stability... i run at Brainerd Int'l w my fd. Brainerd has a 6000 foot straight followed by a banked wide radiused turn that i run thru with no problems at 165+. i leave some speed on the table as i run Toyo Proxes and they are street tires.

if anyone has any high speed instablility w the fd it is most likely in the setup... probably alignment. just follow my setup and you should be fine.

howard coleman

sonix7

thanx howard.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Howard, thanks for the info in this thread. I had heard that Mazdas were somewhat overdamped (or possibly undersprung?) from the factory, and this seems to confirm that theory.

What is your opinion of shorter springs with stock shocks? In the Toyota AE86 community, 'short stroke shocks' were supposedly the hot ticket because they worked better with lowered springs.

Simply put, are there any problems using shorter springs with stock shocks?

Thanks,
-scott-

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

no problems w stock shocks and the aforementioned springs. IMO the R1 shocks, which i have dynoed, are overdamped on rebound for any springs, but non R1 work perfectly w Eibachs etc.

just one additional comment on fd spring rates........

the fd does need a bit more rate than stock. my position is that the Eibach/Tein is a fabulous mod for the money.... around 350/255.

it is not dead perfect but is 90% at 20% of the cost.

IMO, the optimum rate is somewhere in the 400 to 550 front and 375 to 425 rear. i run 432/378. i run the RS*R coil overs at 25 inches ride height measured at the wheel wells. any more drop and you can't readjust the neg camber back to a reasonable street setting.

RS*Rs aren't available but it turns out they are actually rebadged Tein HAs. IMO Tein coil overs are the winner in the coil over market. beautifully built and excellently engineered and cheap... ( under a grand if you shop) i think they don't sell the HA anymore and sell the Flex which i believe is similar. the key is the spring rate. Tein also offers the RA etc and they are 800 pound springs. perfect for burning up tires and sliding around. not perfect for going fast or streetability. do not go near anything Tein unless it has a 566/422 rate. run the adj shocks about 8 clicks from full soft in front and close, very close to full soft in the rear.

howard coleman

RX 4 Speed

Wow... awesome info here guys... thanks a bunch. So, what I gather from howard is this-- switching to shorter Tein springs (or equivalent) for front/back on stock shocks is OKAY, and will dramatically improve my ride, and of course, the looks". Is that correct? Why did I read then from some other folks earlier in the thread that new springs on stock shocks is bad???? If what howard says is true, I can save a lot of money and will definitely do my shocks first BEFORE the rims and tires...

PhoenixDownVII

I only (and others too) said that because it has come to be a general "no-no" that you don't *just* replace springs, but also the shocks.

Perhaps for the normal everyday car this is true, but it seems Howard is proposing that with the FD it isn't...

Section8

iTrader: (6)

More great info from Howard. I have the stock touring shocks with the Eibach pro kit and i love it. After a professional custom alignment with 1.2 neg at all 4 corners and 1/8th toe, the car was transformed.

I would highly 2nd Howard's advice and go for the Eibach Pro kit with the stock shocks.

RX 4 Speed

sounds like a plan. Do you guys have suggestions where to get this Eibach Pro Kit? Model #'s? Sounds like a great bang for the buck.

7_rocket

iTrader: (6)

THe Eibach only lowers the car 1/2 inch in the rear?

rx713bt

iTrader: (4)

I thought the R1 shocks had too much compression dampening? and not on the rebound side?

Double check the rubber insulator on the top perch. If they are deterioated (sp?) then ride height will be lower and possibly rub on hard turns.

Also, make sure you get an alignment after installing the springs. Your camber and toe will probably change from the lower ride height. Do not go with stock alignment settings if you want more traction around turns. I would personally go with more negative camber.


-Jeff

Section8

iTrader: (6)

The Eibachs lower the car about 1 1/4" front and about 1/2" rear. Here are the best before and after pics I have:


Before:



After:

RX 4 Speed

Section 8... is it just me, or does it look lower in the before picture???

Anyways, please let me know where to purchase and the model #... thanks...

Section8

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, I realized that's a bad picture, but it's the best profile shot I have after I put the springs on. The car is on a sideways incline, so that may affect the looks a bit. Here's another shot, but it's a bit farther away. Also since my car is black, it's harder to make out the actual gap