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I will say getting the Datalogit and wideband hooked up and the wideband, FC-Edit, and your laptop all configured right is the hard part. Once you get that done going out to tune is a BREEZE.
I will say getting the Datalogit and wideband hooked up and the wideband, FC-Edit, and your laptop all configured right is the hard part. Once you get that done going out to tune is a BREEZE.
Dale
i haven't tripped over the USB cable; yet, but i've screwed everything else up
the most common one is that Windows 10 loves to used every driver for the USB except the right one. why that is i have no idea, and coming from a Mac, where you just plug things in and they work its just.....
Oh for sure. I've asked Xavier about making FC-Tweak so you don't need FC-Edit at all, he said he's up against memory limitations and that would be a substantial project. We can dream, though.
Yeah would be sweet if the PFC just had a USB port on it.
But, hey, we are VERY lucky that Apexi designed the PFC so you can pull maps and data from the ECU, and then lucky that the Datalogit folks developed that box to start with.
I remember the Dark Ages before the PFC and if you modified your FD you were GUARANTEED a blown engine in just a few months. We've come a long way.
And really that time is what gave the FD such a bad reputation. I remember many occasions where people looked down on my FD and were like "boy I wouldn't have one of those, the engine blow up all the time!"
Oh for sure. I've asked Xavier about making FC-Tweak so you don't need FC-Edit at all, he said he's up against memory limitations and that would be a substantial project. We can dream, though.
Yeah would be sweet if the PFC just had a USB port on it.
But, hey, we are VERY lucky that Apexi designed the PFC so you can pull maps and data from the ECU, and then lucky that the Datalogit folks developed that box to start with.
I remember the Dark Ages before the PFC and if you modified your FD you were GUARANTEED a blown engine in just a few months. We've come a long way.
And really that time is what gave the FD such a bad reputation. I remember many occasions where people looked down on my FD and were like "boy I wouldn't have one of those, the engine blow up all the time!"
Dale
It's fortunate that FC Edit and PFC logging tools even exist, because Apex'i intended PFCs to be tuned with their proprietary software by their Excel Shops.
My WB LC-2 should arrive today or tomorrow
The datalogit is in the FD.
Need to get the bung welded on, and then find time to tune.
Make sure you do the calibrations(boost sensor offset) before tuning. Page 39. Getting the polynomial and setting correct for your wideband is the second piece of the puzzle.
Is there anyone around the Portland Oregon area that could help a hesitant person out with FC TWEAK? Anyone familiar with the PFC/Datalogit/FD3S in the Portland Oregon area to pester?
Have all the components necessary already set up from the datalogit days and presumably all calibrated still, this software is like a godsend if it will do what people are describing, but every time I play with anything with the PFC I am chasing my tail and can't make tangible progress...
Is the IAC still a contentious point? I have played with that thing so many different ways both enabled and disabled, and have never been able to get the datalogit value setting to a steady state to keep my idle "exactly where I want, and low". (Literally run the idle stop off a servo to tweak it manually from the cab on outings because I hate it artificially high and cant seem to restrain its operation from being erratic from day to day or even as the machine changes temperature)
Never had intentional goals of "power", but of drivability, and "refinement of operation", and have missed the mark on every episode of help I have gotten over the years...So many quirks...
Is the IAC still a contentious point? I have played with that thing so many different ways both enabled and disabled, and have never been able to get the datalogit value setting to a steady state to keep my idle "exactly where I want, and low". (Literally run the idle stop off a servo to tweak it manually from the cab on outings because I hate it artificially high and cant seem to restrain its operation from being erratic from day to day or even as the machine changes temperature)
Never had intentional goals of "power", but of drivability, and "refinement of operation", and have missed the mark on every episode of help I have gotten over the years...So many quirks...
the FC Tweak does change the three idle settings, and that helps a lot. if your TB is correct mechanically it would probably work great.
the FD throttle body though is like a Carburetor with no float bowl, there are a a bunch of adjustments and they interact, so the problem can be mechanical. mine was
the FC Tweak works amazingly well for smooth operation and refinement. part of the reason its hard for people to tune the PFC is that there is a time delay between the ecu data and the wideband, the FC Tweak catches it. you could too, but you have to look closely. check this out, throttle gets closed at 135.112, injectors turn off, but afr gets richer for 1/2 a second....
if the average tuner saw that it was 10:1 AFR at that rpm and that load you'd change that cell, but that would make things worse as its the wrong one. the FC Tweak can figure this out. you could too with a lot of testing
the FC Tweak does change the three idle settings, and that helps a lot. if your TB is correct mechanically it would probably work great.
the FD throttle body though is like a Carburetor with no float bowl, there are a a bunch of adjustments and they interact, so the problem can be mechanical. mine was
I think it is mechanically sound...though other than perception, I have no point of reference to compare against. All the mechanisms that control the butterflies appear to operate smoothly with no friction or hangups, the dashpot I have suspected may "change" damping and thus final stop position, but have swapped that out with identical results.
Complete speculation, but I think it may be a temperature based offset advancing/decreasing the idle electronically would be my guess?
Its been a very long time..., but I would change those ISC settings and would find settings that felt good for a lengthy amount of time, and didn't surge in what seemed like a "underdamped" oscillation and loping RPM. The idle would feel rock solid and set at the Low RPM I desire, then seemingly randomly it would just change and oscillate or dip/advance. FRUSTRATING for someone that struggles with this stuff! And what would on the surface seem like an elementary issue to solve.
There are a "few" FDs out this way, but seemingly no one is social enough to coordinate or find enthusiasm in working these types of problems here, or at least I have been unable to find them.
Despite reading and reading, I have not been able to understand many of the details well enough...I need help to get where I want to be.
Feel really strong on the mechanical side. But interpreting the ambiguous and sometimes mysterious software side and interplay of settings and interactions is a big weakness for me.
It has a Steve Kan tune when he was doing group sessions, so I think it is "safe" but no shade on him, there lacks all the refinements I was hoping for. Even startup and shutdown if not done in a specific way makes use difficult.
Last edited by rotarypower101; Jun 24, 2023 at 01:12 PM.
Hesitate to post my Janky AF workaround, but can work the problem from a mechanical point of view, but can't seem to get the software side to capitulate...
So this was my solution, and I can with fine granularity modulate idle speed position from inside the cab when it decides it wants to offset...
I would love to find a solution that was software based and stayed exactly where requested.
Last edited by rotarypower101; Jun 24, 2023 at 12:18 PM.
I think it is mechanically sound...though other than perception, I have no point of reference to compare against. All the mechanisms that control the butterflies appear to operate smoothly with no friction or hangups, the dashpot I have suspected may "change" damping and thus final stop position, but have swapped that out with identical results.
Complete speculation, but I think it may be a temperature based offset advancing/decreasing the idle electronically would be my guess?
Its been a very long time..., but I would change those ISC settings and would find settings that felt good for a lengthy amount of time, and didn't surge in what seemed like a "underdamped" oscillation and loping RPM. The idle would feel rock solid and set at the Low RPM I desire, then seemingly randomly it would just change and oscillate or dip/advance. FRUSTRATING for someone that struggles with this stuff! And what would on the surface seem like an elementary issue to solve.
There are a "few" FDs out this way, but seemingly no one is social enough to coordinate or find enthusiasm in working these types of problems here, or at least I have been unable to find them.
Despite reading and reading, I have not been able to understand many of the details well enough...I need help to get where I want to be.
Feel really strong on the mechanical side. But interpreting the ambiguous and sometimes mysterious software side and interplay of settings and interactions is a big weakness for me.
It has a Steve Kan tune when he was doing group sessions, so I think it is "safe" but no shade on him, there lacks all the refinements I was hoping for. Even startup and shutdown if not done in a specific way makes use difficult.
if you're working without the FC-Tweak you would run some logs and see where the BAC/ISC duty is, if its too low or too high the ECU won't be able to control the idle speed
the PFC software is really simple, you give it a target idle speed, and it will try and hit it. i think the BAC/ISC gets really non linear at low (or high) duty cycles, which is probably what causes the surging.
I completely removed my dashpot as mine started to stick. Didn't affect the car or tune for me. If you have calibrated your boost (FC Tweak can do) and verify your TPS voltages are in spec, verify the AFR on the gauge is the same as what is reading in FC edit. FC Tweak should take care of the rest.
I completely removed my dashpot as mine started to stick. Didn't affect the car or tune for me.
i was doing some testing and i actually lost my dashpot! it didn't make any difference for me either
verify the AFR on the gauge is the same as what is reading in FC edit. FC Tweak should take care of the rest.
i notice with my AFR gauge (NTK AFX) the display (and the soft bit looking at it) is a LOT slower than the datalog, so the FC-Tweak will catch stuff that me and the display don't.
@rotarypower101 can you give a better breakdown of your idle issues?
In general with a clean, functioning ISC and the TB adjusted properly you should have a consistent idle with the PFC. Typically it's 750rpm no load, 850rpm or so with load/AC.
I'm honestly glad to see a proper auto tune available for at least some rotaries now, having tuned hundreds of rotaries but it's been at least 10 years. I used to have fueling maps, timing maps, base fuel maps burned into my brain but it's been lost over the years and I feel bad about telling old friends I no longer feel comfortable tuning their cars.
Yes. That would be awesome. I bought a car with a power fc and data log it, it's definitely not tuned for boost. Would be nice to learn how to use FC Tweak well instead of buying a haltech and re-wiring.
So I've been doing a fair amount of tuning with the new DL-340xb box and FC-Tweak.
In short: Damn, this works AMAZING.
The DL-340xb is the replacement box for the Datalogit that Xavier Borg has made. The two big things for me is it uses a full USB interface to your laptop, no more USB-Serial adapters. Because of that it can log TWICE as fast as the Datalogit box.
Next, he discovered the PowerFC has a high resolution and fast input on the pin that the stock O2 sensor is connected to. You basically cut that wire and splice your Wideband output to that pin going to the PowerFC. Now you have fast, high resolution logging of your AF.
With that installed, you set up your car in FC-Tweak - what mods, what thermostat temp, type of fuel, etc. Let it tweak your map and get it ready.
Then go into the FC-Connect software and connect to the DL-340xb and write the tweaked map to the PFC.
In that software you can set up your Wideband sensor. It has most common wide bands in there, just pick from the list and make sure the Wideband is setup with the "this voltage equals this AF" on the screen. My LC-1 has a programming cable that you can use to set this up. Once that's done you can then correct any noise from the ground offset - just arrow up and down until the live value in FC-Connect matches your gauge and you know you're good.
Then go into Datalogging and hit tab to start logging. It has a grid on the screen showing the whole map and 4 gauges around that map. Start driving around and it will fill in the grid - you can see when you've got a good amount filled in or where you need to drive to log it. Get 10-15 minutes of logging and save it out.
In FC-Tweak, it will load the map and log into Autotune. If there are any issues with the log or your setup it will warn before auto tuning. You can pick how aggressive the power areas are to be tuned, economical cruise or not, etc. Autotune then weeds out all the junk data, gets just what's solid good information, then will adjust the map appropriately. Load that back into the PFC and repeat.
Every pass I've done with Autotune the car has driven better and better.
It's a real winner to use and really breathes new life into the PFC.
Glad you’re using FC Tweak, Xavier is awesome. Just wanted to add that the Power FC Master is even more convenient. I started out using a laptop, but it’s way too bulky, and we don’t need to live in the early 2000s anymore (even though tuning with a laptop does look cool). I also added the EXT-08XB. I’m setting it up so the Power FC goes into limp mode if fuel pressure ever dips below a certain PSI. (I never did the fuel pump wiring ‘upgrade,’ but I’m still running the stock pump, so it should be fine, this is just for safety.)
