Power Steering Removal - catching up on writeups part 3
07-31-05, 02:45 AM
#1
Power Steering Removal - catching up on writeups part 3
This is another catchup post of a mod I did over the winter.
A while back I had a great conversation about tracking the 3rd gen with the highly accomplished driver Howard Coleman. I rememebr that he mentioned the removal of the power steering was one of his favorite mods. When a guy with his history in racing talks, I listen!!! Not only do I listen , I mimic!!!
Now this is not a write up on how to remove/install the steering rack, use the friggin manual for that. Instead I am going to talk about the 'REAL' power steering removal.
What I mean by real is that this is a full conversion to a manual steering system, not just a power steering pump by-pass. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, they are totally different in feel and mechanics. Dont think by bypassing your pump or removing the ps belt that you can try the FEEL of no ps and see if you like it, ITS NOT THE SAME FEEL as having a manual rack. Do some searches, I am not saying anythign new hear, just re0iterating it so that you understand that what I did was the full manual conversion...not the pump bypass hose mod.
I love this mod for the track, I mean its amazing the difference in feel I had in the steerign wheel and its very effective in translating what the front tires are doing at a much more accurate level. From 0-5 mph it really sucks to try to turn, especially with massive sticky track slicks on :-) but from 10mph to 160 mph, it is just awsome!!! I probably would not do it on my street car, but its a MUST for any dedicated track or track/street car.
In summary, you remove the power steering pump and all its connections, then remove the steering rack. This is kind of a PIA since so many other things are in the way. PAY ATTENTION to the position of the rack and its rods, you want to makr things where ever you can so that when you put it back in you are not guessing where the 'center' is or how far out one rod should be vs the other, et, et.
Once the rack is out, contact these guys to convert your rack to manual:
http://www.mavalgear.com/
It is around $250-ish, but WORTH IT.
Here is a recent thread with some details on it:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...power+steering
The rack came back just beautiful!!! I mean they really do good work, all the little details like re-coating the entire rack and new boots, packaged well for shipping, et ,et.
Here are some pics:
..and here is a post from howard, that i will paste in here (if I may howard):
"ditching the power steering is one of the single best fd mods. when mazda designed the fd they had 2 teams that worked for 10 months on one objective: removing weight. so they get the car down to under 3000 pounds and put power steering on????? no matter what anyone says about power steering you lose road feel. that'd be o k for a buick... manual steering: hello road. bonus, less front weight, bonus, less crap in the engine compartment and more cooling air. if you live above the mason dixon line junk your a-c while your at it. (don't forget to junk the condensor too, you know, that thing that sits in front of your radiator and obstructs all the airflow). bonus, you can change your plugs in a flash. as to the p/s removal mechanics... there are lots of options, as previously stated. i have been running manual steering for 4 years. i removed the pump and all lines. i plugged the lines at the steering box. i looped the 2 lines on the rack after turning the wheels back and forth to eject most of the fluid in the rack. drive your car w this mod for a week and then ask yourself if it would be an improvement to bolt on 30 pounds of stuff over your front wheels (where you want to remove weight), to clutter up the engine compartment so you can lose road feel. power steering turns one of the best road cars ever designed into the driving experience like a video game.
lose the power steering and say hello to roadfeel.
howard coleman
A while back I had a great conversation about tracking the 3rd gen with the highly accomplished driver Howard Coleman. I rememebr that he mentioned the removal of the power steering was one of his favorite mods. When a guy with his history in racing talks, I listen!!! Not only do I listen , I mimic!!!
Now this is not a write up on how to remove/install the steering rack, use the friggin manual for that. Instead I am going to talk about the 'REAL' power steering removal.
What I mean by real is that this is a full conversion to a manual steering system, not just a power steering pump by-pass. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, they are totally different in feel and mechanics. Dont think by bypassing your pump or removing the ps belt that you can try the FEEL of no ps and see if you like it, ITS NOT THE SAME FEEL as having a manual rack. Do some searches, I am not saying anythign new hear, just re0iterating it so that you understand that what I did was the full manual conversion...not the pump bypass hose mod.
I love this mod for the track, I mean its amazing the difference in feel I had in the steerign wheel and its very effective in translating what the front tires are doing at a much more accurate level. From 0-5 mph it really sucks to try to turn, especially with massive sticky track slicks on :-) but from 10mph to 160 mph, it is just awsome!!! I probably would not do it on my street car, but its a MUST for any dedicated track or track/street car.
In summary, you remove the power steering pump and all its connections, then remove the steering rack. This is kind of a PIA since so many other things are in the way. PAY ATTENTION to the position of the rack and its rods, you want to makr things where ever you can so that when you put it back in you are not guessing where the 'center' is or how far out one rod should be vs the other, et, et.
Once the rack is out, contact these guys to convert your rack to manual:
http://www.mavalgear.com/
It is around $250-ish, but WORTH IT.
Here is a recent thread with some details on it:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...power+steering
The rack came back just beautiful!!! I mean they really do good work, all the little details like re-coating the entire rack and new boots, packaged well for shipping, et ,et.
Here are some pics:
..and here is a post from howard, that i will paste in here (if I may howard):
"ditching the power steering is one of the single best fd mods. when mazda designed the fd they had 2 teams that worked for 10 months on one objective: removing weight. so they get the car down to under 3000 pounds and put power steering on????? no matter what anyone says about power steering you lose road feel. that'd be o k for a buick... manual steering: hello road. bonus, less front weight, bonus, less crap in the engine compartment and more cooling air. if you live above the mason dixon line junk your a-c while your at it. (don't forget to junk the condensor too, you know, that thing that sits in front of your radiator and obstructs all the airflow). bonus, you can change your plugs in a flash. as to the p/s removal mechanics... there are lots of options, as previously stated. i have been running manual steering for 4 years. i removed the pump and all lines. i plugged the lines at the steering box. i looped the 2 lines on the rack after turning the wheels back and forth to eject most of the fluid in the rack. drive your car w this mod for a week and then ask yourself if it would be an improvement to bolt on 30 pounds of stuff over your front wheels (where you want to remove weight), to clutter up the engine compartment so you can lose road feel. power steering turns one of the best road cars ever designed into the driving experience like a video game.
lose the power steering and say hello to roadfeel.
howard coleman
07-31-05, 03:23 PM
#4
According to jimlab, Maval can weld the quill shaft if you ask them.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/powersteering-removal-kit-428946/page4/
-s-
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/powersteering-removal-kit-428946/page4/
-s-
08-01-05, 06:48 AM
#6
Lives on the Forum
I'd just like to add that I now know of at least three cars now (mine was one) that have had the steering rack mount bolts loosen. I highly recommend locknuts or thread lock on them. The driver side mount is the only one that locates the rack side to side and if even one of the bolts in it loosen the rack will move.
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08-01-05, 11:07 AM
#8
Originally Posted by DamonB
I'd just like to add that I now know of at least three cars now (mine was one) that have had the steering rack mount bolts loosen. I highly recommend locknuts or thread lock on them. The driver side mount is the only one that locates the rack side to side and if even one of the bolts in it loosen the rack will move.
08-01-05, 11:07 AM
#9
Originally Posted by ptrhahn
I did this mod in Spring '04, and would never go back. Maval DOES weld the quil, because I asked at the time.
Feels great, saves weight, saves clutter, and you can easily change the spark plugs from topside.
Feels great, saves weight, saves clutter, and you can easily change the spark plugs from topside.
12-25-05, 10:53 PM
#17
Originally Posted by twokrx7
The Flying Miata conversion looks to be just a looped system.
12-26-05, 11:41 AM
#19
mono4lamar, according to jimlab, the Maval conversion is basically the same as the procedure outlined by the guys from Flying Miata. See post # 47 from this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/powersteering-removal-kit-428946/
-s-
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/powersteering-removal-kit-428946/
-s-
12-27-05, 12:33 AM
#22
Damian, you mentioned that you wouldn't install a manual rack in your street car. Would you recommend it for a car that sees double-duty as a track car, with average corner speeds 50+mph? How about a car that sees a lot of autocross racing, with average corner speeds between 25-50mph?
Have you driven a car with a looped rack also? How did it compare to the full conversion?
-s-
Have you driven a car with a looped rack also? How did it compare to the full conversion?
-s-
12-27-05, 01:14 AM
#23
>>Damian, you mentioned that you wouldn't install a manual rack in your street car. Would you recommend it for a car that sees double-duty as a track car, with average corner speeds 50+mph? How about a car that sees a lot of autocross racing, with average corner speeds between 25-50mph?
My first reaction would be yes, I would do it, ....if its going to see open road tracks.
...However.... if its mainly autocross then I am not sure, autocross is way more wheel sawing than road track driving.... keeping the powersteering may help in that situation. In other words the gain of road feel in the franticness of autocross driving may not outweight the ability to steer easily, thus being better to keep the power steering.
>>Have you driven a car with a looped rack also? How did it compare to the full conversion?
My friend Andy's car (gooroo) has the looped rack and I have driven it, and have driven my 95 with no ps belt. To me they we very similar, harder to steer and a little bit of raod feel gain ...but nothing compared to what you get with the 'hard' conversion.
For example, with PS, the steering wheel doesnt move at all when you hit slight bump, small rocks, or road imperfections....it buffers all that and makes it 'nice' to drive. When you remove the PS, that buffer is gone, so you can feel the wheel pull when the tires hit these things. With the loop or belt removed, the hydrolics still buffers some of that, when you go with a hard conversion, it is no longer hydrolic....its just mechanical ....so you feel every little pull/push/bump on the tires tansmitted to the steering wheel....that is the feel you get with only the hard conversion... and most people get that confused with the simultanious effect that you also get from removing the ps, the fact that its harder to steer... that dosnt readily mean better road feel to me,.... just means its harder to steer LOL
My first reaction would be yes, I would do it, ....if its going to see open road tracks.
...However.... if its mainly autocross then I am not sure, autocross is way more wheel sawing than road track driving.... keeping the powersteering may help in that situation. In other words the gain of road feel in the franticness of autocross driving may not outweight the ability to steer easily, thus being better to keep the power steering.
>>Have you driven a car with a looped rack also? How did it compare to the full conversion?
My friend Andy's car (gooroo) has the looped rack and I have driven it, and have driven my 95 with no ps belt. To me they we very similar, harder to steer and a little bit of raod feel gain ...but nothing compared to what you get with the 'hard' conversion.
For example, with PS, the steering wheel doesnt move at all when you hit slight bump, small rocks, or road imperfections....it buffers all that and makes it 'nice' to drive. When you remove the PS, that buffer is gone, so you can feel the wheel pull when the tires hit these things. With the loop or belt removed, the hydrolics still buffers some of that, when you go with a hard conversion, it is no longer hydrolic....its just mechanical ....so you feel every little pull/push/bump on the tires tansmitted to the steering wheel....that is the feel you get with only the hard conversion... and most people get that confused with the simultanious effect that you also get from removing the ps, the fact that its harder to steer... that dosnt readily mean better road feel to me,.... just means its harder to steer LOL
Last edited by damian; 12-27-05 at 01:19 AM.
12-27-05, 01:20 AM
#24
Damian, I've felt true manual steering in an FSAE racecar. It's very, very nice.
So would you say the effort is about the same for the looped line as for the full conversion? For $30 in parts, I might try one of those for an autocross or two before modifying my rack. I drove a friend's car that had removed the pulley, and the steering wasn't too bad. I've got to get him out to an autocross sometime.
-s-
So would you say the effort is about the same for the looped line as for the full conversion? For $30 in parts, I might try one of those for an autocross or two before modifying my rack. I drove a friend's car that had removed the pulley, and the steering wasn't too bad. I've got to get him out to an autocross sometime.
-s-
Last edited by scotty305; 12-27-05 at 01:23 AM.
