Pictorial write up of my engine pull and re-install.
03-04-03, 10:32 PM
#26
Well, the engine is at Pineapple. Last I spoke to Rob (the owner) and Joel (his right hand man), the engine was going to be torn down this previous Friday. I haven't had a chance to call Pineapple again, but here's a few of the tidbits that I garnered from Rob.
Lightweight flywheels aren't the best bang for the buck improvement on a turbocharged engine. Since our engines require load to produce exhaust and thus spool the turbo, a lightweight flywheel extends the time required to spool our turbos. He said that this cancels some of the benefits (of the lightweight flywheel) out. I.E. the flywheel doesn't give as much benefit as it does on a normally aspirated car. I have to admit, the flywheel is expensive but I'm going to purchase it anyway. I've never cared for the way the car's motor revs down so slowly. I've frequently "pushed" the RPMs down with casual up shifting. Also, the flywheel is an easy project with the motor out' I can only imagine what's involved with it in.
I asked Rob about synthetic oil in our cars and received a whole hearted endorsement. Considering that he offers a five year warranty on his motors his endorsement says something to me. The question came up when I asked Rob about the two cycle oil metering pump adapter for our cars check this thread. Basically, Rob hasn't seen any problems in his own motors with synthetic oil; that is to say, problems with seal hardening, unburned oil residue building up, carbon buildup, etc. Now I'm not saying that Rob is gospel, but considering his occupation, his word caries some weight for me.
Have any of you pulled the heads off of a piston motor to replace a (water leaking) faulty head gasket? Did you notice which cylinder was clean? I've done a couple head gasket replacement jobs in my time. The cylinder with the water leak is always spotless. The remaining cylinders are always dirty with carbon deposits. So, this was Rob's reasoning for water injection. He listened to me asking about the OMP adapter (last paragraph) (that I wanted to run it to avoid carbon and other buildup caused by motor oil) and suggested occasional water injection. I think that I'll give it a shot a few thousand miles down the road by running a vacuum line into the car and then to a valve and small tank of water. The idea being to run a quart or so of water through the motor every couple of thousand miles. As near as I can tell, running water injection is relatively benign. It has the same effects as EGR on a motor. I.E. reduces NOx emissions, I believe.
Another idea that Rob sold me on was an aftermarket water seal with a 600 degree failure point. The stock seals (per Rob) harden after repeated exposure to temperatures above 280 degrees. Given that our motor is prone to hot spots, this $99 seal upgrade seems like a no brainier to me.
The upgraded water seal leads me to Evans coolant. This stuff requires no pressure to maintain a usable boiling point. This means that the cooling system in a car with Evans coolant can be run at 0 psi. For $75 (three gallons), this sound like a cheap way to take the pressure off of the many rubber cooling lines in our cooling system. Evans coolant also offers the same low surface tension that additives like Red Line "Water Wetter" offer. The net effect of this is to increase cooling and reduce the hot spot formation that does our water seals in. Assuming that this stuff works as advertised, I'm going to do away with my new AST; we'll see. Oh, it doesn't wear out, so I can spread the cost over the life of the new engine.
OK everyone, let me know what you think. I imagine that this post will bring out many an opinion.
Take care all. I'll probably post once more when I have an eta on the engine's finish date.
Lightweight flywheels aren't the best bang for the buck improvement on a turbocharged engine. Since our engines require load to produce exhaust and thus spool the turbo, a lightweight flywheel extends the time required to spool our turbos. He said that this cancels some of the benefits (of the lightweight flywheel) out. I.E. the flywheel doesn't give as much benefit as it does on a normally aspirated car. I have to admit, the flywheel is expensive but I'm going to purchase it anyway. I've never cared for the way the car's motor revs down so slowly. I've frequently "pushed" the RPMs down with casual up shifting. Also, the flywheel is an easy project with the motor out' I can only imagine what's involved with it in.
I asked Rob about synthetic oil in our cars and received a whole hearted endorsement. Considering that he offers a five year warranty on his motors his endorsement says something to me. The question came up when I asked Rob about the two cycle oil metering pump adapter for our cars check this thread. Basically, Rob hasn't seen any problems in his own motors with synthetic oil; that is to say, problems with seal hardening, unburned oil residue building up, carbon buildup, etc. Now I'm not saying that Rob is gospel, but considering his occupation, his word caries some weight for me.
Have any of you pulled the heads off of a piston motor to replace a (water leaking) faulty head gasket? Did you notice which cylinder was clean? I've done a couple head gasket replacement jobs in my time. The cylinder with the water leak is always spotless. The remaining cylinders are always dirty with carbon deposits. So, this was Rob's reasoning for water injection. He listened to me asking about the OMP adapter (last paragraph) (that I wanted to run it to avoid carbon and other buildup caused by motor oil) and suggested occasional water injection. I think that I'll give it a shot a few thousand miles down the road by running a vacuum line into the car and then to a valve and small tank of water. The idea being to run a quart or so of water through the motor every couple of thousand miles. As near as I can tell, running water injection is relatively benign. It has the same effects as EGR on a motor. I.E. reduces NOx emissions, I believe.
Another idea that Rob sold me on was an aftermarket water seal with a 600 degree failure point. The stock seals (per Rob) harden after repeated exposure to temperatures above 280 degrees. Given that our motor is prone to hot spots, this $99 seal upgrade seems like a no brainier to me.
The upgraded water seal leads me to Evans coolant. This stuff requires no pressure to maintain a usable boiling point. This means that the cooling system in a car with Evans coolant can be run at 0 psi. For $75 (three gallons), this sound like a cheap way to take the pressure off of the many rubber cooling lines in our cooling system. Evans coolant also offers the same low surface tension that additives like Red Line "Water Wetter" offer. The net effect of this is to increase cooling and reduce the hot spot formation that does our water seals in. Assuming that this stuff works as advertised, I'm going to do away with my new AST; we'll see. Oh, it doesn't wear out, so I can spread the cost over the life of the new engine.
OK everyone, let me know what you think. I imagine that this post will bring out many an opinion.
Take care all. I'll probably post once more when I have an eta on the engine's finish date.
Last edited by James Paventi; 03-04-03 at 10:37 PM.
03-05-03, 12:09 AM
#27
I just installed a light flywheel in my car. The first thing I noticed is that the car shifts gears more easily. I will have to wait for 300 miles before I can do any hard driving. ACT says to take it easy to break in the clutch at first.
I use Mobil One.
James, keep us posted.
I use Mobil One.
James, keep us posted.
03-07-03, 01:48 AM
#28
Backup for Rob's water in the motor info
Check out this thread.
It's a bit of backup for Rob's (Pineapple Racing) advice about water injection.
Adam, I think that Cheap Bastard Motorsports should developed a (cheap of course) boost activated water injection system.
Here are some more links. These are duplicates from the thread that I referenced above.
One
Two
Three
It's a bit of backup for Rob's (Pineapple Racing) advice about water injection.
Adam, I think that Cheap Bastard Motorsports should developed a (cheap of course) boost activated water injection system.
Here are some more links. These are duplicates from the thread that I referenced above.
One
Two
Three
03-14-03, 01:49 PM
#30
Update on the rebuild
Update on the rebuild
The motor was torn down on Friday the 7th, last week.
Joel had to ask me what was wrong. The motor was in good enough shape so as to make it difficult to see what was wrong. Than again, he said that he didn't intentionally go looking. I.E. he knew that the motor was going to be rebuilt one way or another. Joel also noted that the rotor housings are in great shape. Anybody care to make an offer?
The motor should be done on the 24th of this month, give or take a week. Why so long? Well, I decided to go crazy and go with 3MM ceramic apex seals. The machining adds a time (and money) to the rebuild.
While I've been waiting, I've done several small things:
-Replaced the throw out bearing
-Send my injectors to RC engineering (they're already back an installed).
-Bled and replaced the clutch's portion of brake fluid. (I accidentally disconnected the line during engine removal.)
-Did a lot of cleaning of various engine parts. Note that I didn't go crazy with polishing and all, I just removed the oil and dirt from the car's numerous oil leaks.
-Sent my exhaust manifold to Jet Hot. I should have it back about a week before the engine. The outside is being coated with JetHot2000 in Blue, to match my downpipe.
I've decided to forgo an oil injection adapter and 2 cycle oil tank.
I'm thinking about water injection, maybe an Aquamist system.
I'm working on replacing a plastic boot that covers the steering linkage on the drivers side. I'm being a bit ambiguous here as I haven't really started this ... only noticed that the boot is full of holes / tears.
I'd like to replace the trans. / dif. Fluid with synthetic if I have time. If not, I'll leave some of the coverings off of the trans. after the motor installation and do the fluid changes a week or two down the road.
Later all!
James
The motor was torn down on Friday the 7th, last week.
Joel had to ask me what was wrong. The motor was in good enough shape so as to make it difficult to see what was wrong. Than again, he said that he didn't intentionally go looking. I.E. he knew that the motor was going to be rebuilt one way or another. Joel also noted that the rotor housings are in great shape. Anybody care to make an offer?
The motor should be done on the 24th of this month, give or take a week. Why so long? Well, I decided to go crazy and go with 3MM ceramic apex seals. The machining adds a time (and money) to the rebuild.
While I've been waiting, I've done several small things:
-Replaced the throw out bearing
-Send my injectors to RC engineering (they're already back an installed).
-Bled and replaced the clutch's portion of brake fluid. (I accidentally disconnected the line during engine removal.)
-Did a lot of cleaning of various engine parts. Note that I didn't go crazy with polishing and all, I just removed the oil and dirt from the car's numerous oil leaks.
-Sent my exhaust manifold to Jet Hot. I should have it back about a week before the engine. The outside is being coated with JetHot2000 in Blue, to match my downpipe.
I've decided to forgo an oil injection adapter and 2 cycle oil tank.
I'm thinking about water injection, maybe an Aquamist system.
I'm working on replacing a plastic boot that covers the steering linkage on the drivers side. I'm being a bit ambiguous here as I haven't really started this ... only noticed that the boot is full of holes / tears.
I'd like to replace the trans. / dif. Fluid with synthetic if I have time. If not, I'll leave some of the coverings off of the trans. after the motor installation and do the fluid changes a week or two down the road.
Later all!
James
Last edited by James Paventi; 03-14-03 at 02:00 PM.
03-24-03, 01:47 PM
#31
update
OK, I just talked to Joel at Pineapple. The assembly of my motor is pending the rotor machining (3mm apex seals). The motor should be assembled and ready for shipping late this week or early next. Damn! I can't wait.
I've bled and replaced all of my brake fluid with DOT 4, synthetic gear oil change-out is still coming, and I've ordered a new steering linkage boot. Also, I should have my exhaust manifold back from JetHot. I'll post some pics for everyone.
James
I've bled and replaced all of my brake fluid with DOT 4, synthetic gear oil change-out is still coming, and I've ordered a new steering linkage boot. Also, I should have my exhaust manifold back from JetHot. I'll post some pics for everyone.
James
Last edited by James Paventi; 03-24-03 at 01:51 PM.
03-24-03, 09:50 PM
#33
JetHot Exhaust Manifold
Funny, I was about to call and ask JetHot what the status of this was.
Parts of the coating process were blocked. These parts are extremely clean and haven't the slightest sign of rust. I'm guessing that JetHot bead blasts before they coat.
Looks good for a nearly 10 year old exhaust part!
Parts of the coating process were blocked. These parts are extremely clean and haven't the slightest sign of rust. I'm guessing that JetHot bead blasts before they coat.
Looks good for a nearly 10 year old exhaust part!
04-29-03, 01:16 PM
#34
It's back!
OK ... the motor finally came in last Thursday ... wooo hooo ... 
Here are some pics ... I'll start with the ports. I won't show the exhaust ports as I couldn't see any difference from the original ones ... in terms of porting.
Here's the motor and the gasket set before any build up:
I lied a bit about the exhaust port pics ... here's my best attempt at a pic of a ceramic apex seal. My camera is auto focus so it tends to focus on the outside of the ports rather than the inside ... damn!
OK ... last one here's as far as I've made it during the build up. It turns out that my oil injectors are bad. From what the shop manual says, they're supposed to pass air in but not out. One (of mine) passes air in and out and the other out but not in.
Soooo ... I can't continue the build up until Wednesdayish. I should have the injectors by them.
I have to say ... the build up (so far) hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. By comparison, I was very intimidated when I started ...
just some encouragement for everyone out there that is thinking about doing their own rebuild.
Hey Nameless ... what are you up to next weekend? I'm gona need a hand putting the motor back in.
Here are some pics ... I'll start with the ports. I won't show the exhaust ports as I couldn't see any difference from the original ones ... in terms of porting.
Here's the motor and the gasket set before any build up:
I lied a bit about the exhaust port pics ... here's my best attempt at a pic of a ceramic apex seal. My camera is auto focus so it tends to focus on the outside of the ports rather than the inside ... damn!
OK ... last one here's as far as I've made it during the build up. It turns out that my oil injectors are bad. From what the shop manual says, they're supposed to pass air in but not out. One (of mine) passes air in and out and the other out but not in.
Soooo ... I can't continue the build up until Wednesdayish. I should have the injectors by them.
I have to say ... the build up (so far) hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. By comparison, I was very intimidated when I started ...
just some encouragement for everyone out there that is thinking about doing their own rebuild.Hey Nameless ... what are you up to next weekend? I'm gona need a hand putting the motor back in.
04-29-03, 04:22 PM
#35
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I'm just swapping the old parts onto my new motor. I must say your engine compartment is very nice. I've got to do it by hand.
I was wondering what other seal and gaskets you used for your rebuild? Did you have to replace any senders or sensors? Are you keeping stock turbos or going single?
I was wondering what other seal and gaskets you used for your rebuild? Did you have to replace any senders or sensors? Are you keeping stock turbos or going single?
04-29-03, 04:58 PM
#37
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Schedule is very full... some bad timing. I'll try to free up time, but Saturday is totally taken. I'll give you a call or PM you about Sunday if I manage to find some time.
04-29-03, 07:03 PM
#38
Well ... I would like to have it running this weekend, but I have to lay off of the 1AM sessions with the motor or my wife is going to move my bed into the garage ... 
Realistically 2 or three Saturdays from now ...
Realistically 2 or three Saturdays from now ...
Originally posted by adam c
Hi James,
Looks like you are getting pretty close. Do you expect to have it running this weekend? That would be nice. Good luck with the installation.
Adam
Hi James,
Looks like you are getting pretty close. Do you expect to have it running this weekend? That would be nice. Good luck with the installation.
Adam
04-29-03, 07:08 PM
#39
built my own engine
james, can you give us prospective engine rebuilders/do it yourselfers a price list of these things? the jetcoat is awesome, the pinapple is awesome, but i don't see prices anywhere...
if you got a deal just specify
if you got a deal just specify
04-29-03, 07:18 PM
#40
I bought the gaskets as a set from Pinneaple. The ONLY things missing are the crush washers for the secondary fuel rail. From what I can tell in the shop manual the older (I have a new fuel line) fuel lines were just a hose and clamp. My new one is pressed together in a way that forces the removal of the hollow bolt / crush washers in the secondary fuel rail. No biggie though, the washers are only $0.88 each from Mazdaformance.
Hmm --- my picture sort of hid the copper crush washers as well as some smaller rubber washers that were included with the gasket set. There're under the LIM to motor gasket in the pic.
I replaced my fuel pulsation dampener, but nothing else. Well ... I replaced every rubber hose on the car about 2000 miles ago ... this eliminated allot of work during the engine build up.
I'm definitely keeping the stock turbos. I just love the flat torque curve. Besides, mine are brand new. Well, they only have 2000 miles on them. Sigh, I wish I had known about J-Specs when I purchased them.
Hmm --- my picture sort of hid the copper crush washers as well as some smaller rubber washers that were included with the gasket set. There're under the LIM to motor gasket in the pic.
I replaced my fuel pulsation dampener, but nothing else. Well ... I replaced every rubber hose on the car about 2000 miles ago ... this eliminated allot of work during the engine build up.
I'm definitely keeping the stock turbos. I just love the flat torque curve. Besides, mine are brand new. Well, they only have 2000 miles on them. Sigh, I wish I had known about J-Specs when I purchased them.
Originally posted by D-town R2
I was wondering what other seal and gaskets you used for your rebuild? Did you have to replace any senders or sensors? Are you keeping stock turbos or going single?
I was wondering what other seal and gaskets you used for your rebuild? Did you have to replace any senders or sensors? Are you keeping stock turbos or going single?
Last edited by James Paventi; 04-29-03 at 07:20 PM.
04-29-03, 09:40 PM
#41
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hey, i've got a question.
on the 1st page you have a pic of the engine that shows all the pulleys. Is your idler pulley (for the PS pump system) on backwards? Before i redid mine, my idler pulley had the lip "against" the engine, unlike your picture which shows it away and facing the engine.
anyone - which is correct? i'm having a major belt coming off the PS pump pulley problem, and if my idelr pulley is on backwads, that might solve the problem.
thanks
on the 1st page you have a pic of the engine that shows all the pulleys. Is your idler pulley (for the PS pump system) on backwards? Before i redid mine, my idler pulley had the lip "against" the engine, unlike your picture which shows it away and facing the engine.
anyone - which is correct? i'm having a major belt coming off the PS pump pulley problem, and if my idelr pulley is on backwads, that might solve the problem.
thanks
04-29-03, 09:59 PM
#42
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^ Mine is the same way. The lip is away from the engine or towards the front of the car. I was told last week that it was on backwards. I tried to reverse it but I think i'm missing a part or have the wrong part.
05-02-03, 04:20 PM
#46
OK, here's the breakdown. Everything is approximate and off the top of my head.
First, for the engine, reference Pineapple Racing's price page on the web.
I bought the 5 year rebuild, a "small" street port, and 3mm ceramic apex seals. The last part added about $1600 to the price. I'll let you add up the rest of the numbers. Hmm ... before everyone freaks out about the price, Pineapple will do a base rebuild for about $2100. I.E. this is their least expensive rebuild. Check the website. Oh, I also bought Vitron (spelling?) water seals from Rob for an extra $100.
Shipping was about $70 via Saia. I paid an extra $20 on the return trip to have them drop the motor at my house. Without this, you'll have to drop the motor at Saia's local dispatch center.
I bought Evan's coolant from Rob (Pineapple) for a bit less that $25 per gallon.
The Jet Hot Coating was about $100 with shipping included (both directions). Note that the shipping was $30-40 of the cost ... the exhaust manifold weighs a lot. Check out Jet Hot's web page.
Did I miss something? Most everything else is all ofer this forum or the web
James
First, for the engine, reference Pineapple Racing's price page on the web.
I bought the 5 year rebuild, a "small" street port, and 3mm ceramic apex seals. The last part added about $1600 to the price. I'll let you add up the rest of the numbers. Hmm ... before everyone freaks out about the price, Pineapple will do a base rebuild for about $2100. I.E. this is their least expensive rebuild. Check the website. Oh, I also bought Vitron (spelling?) water seals from Rob for an extra $100.
Shipping was about $70 via Saia. I paid an extra $20 on the return trip to have them drop the motor at my house. Without this, you'll have to drop the motor at Saia's local dispatch center.
I bought Evan's coolant from Rob (Pineapple) for a bit less that $25 per gallon.
The Jet Hot Coating was about $100 with shipping included (both directions). Note that the shipping was $30-40 of the cost ... the exhaust manifold weighs a lot. Check out Jet Hot's web page.
Did I miss something? Most everything else is all ofer this forum or the web
James
Originally posted by 93BlackFD
james, can you give us prospective engine rebuilders/do it yourselfers a price list of these things? the jetcoat is awesome, the pinapple is awesome, but i don't see prices anywhere...
if you got a deal just specify
james, can you give us prospective engine rebuilders/do it yourselfers a price list of these things? the jetcoat is awesome, the pinapple is awesome, but i don't see prices anywhere...
if you got a deal just specify
Last edited by James Paventi; 05-02-03 at 04:23 PM.
good thread James, thanks for all the pics! looking forward to the completion.
05-04-03, 11:42 PM
#49
Back together, but not in.
Have a look all, it's back together.
Looks just like the motor that I tore down to send to Pineapple, only allot cleaner.
Anyone catch the two mods that I haven't talked about yet? I'll post some picks soon.
James
Looks just like the motor that I tore down to send to Pineapple, only allot cleaner.
Anyone catch the two mods that I haven't talked about yet? I'll post some picks soon.
James
