Percent of Engine Swap FDs
09-02-15, 10:23 PM
#77
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I have never heard of an NA 3 rotor failing. Period. Mine hasn't and I don't think Trey's has or Chris' or Logan's, which was a pure race motor making 476 whp. An NA 3 rotor is very hard to break. I have several thousand miles on my motor and I don't see it ever going. I think you got bad information...
G
G
That is a sure way to never brake it.
09-03-15, 06:38 AM
#78
Senior Member
You say you don't see any "inconsistencies" between the AC Ace and Cobra and the Rx7 and the swapped v8 in an FD body. Not quite sure how to unravel that.
The point was that a swapped AC Ace with a v8 in it is no longer an Ace, is a Cobra. A swapped FD is no longer an Rx7, its a "you-fill-in-the-blank".
The Cobra was built and sold in some numbers by Shelby American with that name, so it's not exactly the same situation as individuals swapping V8s into RX-7s.
09-03-15, 08:15 AM
#79
I hear you, Fritz. It costs about $35,000 for a 3 rotor NA. So, its expensive, but less so than the most expensive single turbo builds and way less than 3 rotor turbos. I paid for 2 motors, sort of, since the first guys that built it.... Anyway, I'm just yakking. Its the best motor for the FD, but it is about $35,000 to build and install, so its expensive, I guess. Its for the more sophisticated driver who values total performance rather than just power or largely power.
G
G
Why? How does that make it "best" by any conceivable metric one would measure a car by?
That build is proof enough we landed on the moon because...
<a href="http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/Mik3ymomo/media/83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t516/Mik3ymomo/83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif" border="0" alt=" photo 83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif"/></a>
09-03-15, 08:16 AM
#80
I have never heard of an NA 3 rotor failing. Period. Mine hasn't and I don't think Trey's has or Chris' or Logan's, which was a pure race motor making 476 whp. An NA 3 rotor is very hard to break. I have several thousand miles on my motor and I don't see it ever going. I think you got bad information...
G
G
Maybe u should stop lying? Or maybe u believe your own lies?
-Austin
Last edited by turbodrx7; 09-03-15 at 08:38 AM.
09-03-15, 09:13 AM
#81
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If I dropped 35,000 to have ~400 hp I wouldn't tell anyone. Jeeze that's a lot of coin. Head and Cam LS1 would do 425whp for $3500 and be dead nuts reliable. My mind is blowing right now.
09-03-15, 09:43 AM
#82
This is hilarious.
Why don't Ferrari owners just rip out the stupid overpriced motors and swap in LS platforms, so much cheaper, easier to maintain, and can make just as much power. Not to mention, you can just go down the street and change your plugs/wires/alternator for cheap.
^This is the same kinda way (sarcasm above) that I see the LS swap on the RX-7. If you want to ***** out your car so that you can have "reliability" go for it. I totally understand the desire. To each their own.
But to those that haven't made a decision which way to go, or are on the fence being persuaded by all the V8 stuff getting swapped into every car everywhere, its not unique in any way. Ride in a 3 Rotor or a 600rwhp 13b and tell me you wish you had an N/A V8
Hell the sound alone is worth the risk!
Why don't Ferrari owners just rip out the stupid overpriced motors and swap in LS platforms, so much cheaper, easier to maintain, and can make just as much power. Not to mention, you can just go down the street and change your plugs/wires/alternator for cheap.
^This is the same kinda way (sarcasm above) that I see the LS swap on the RX-7. If you want to ***** out your car so that you can have "reliability" go for it. I totally understand the desire. To each their own.
But to those that haven't made a decision which way to go, or are on the fence being persuaded by all the V8 stuff getting swapped into every car everywhere, its not unique in any way. Ride in a 3 Rotor or a 600rwhp 13b and tell me you wish you had an N/A V8
Hell the sound alone is worth the risk!
09-03-15, 09:51 AM
#84
So you proved my point. An experienced Rotary shop couldn't even build it right. And $35k for a motor in an RX-7 that still under performs?
Why? How does that make it "best" by any conceivable metric one would measure a car by?
That build is proof enough we landed on the moon because...
<a href="http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/Mik3ymomo/media/83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t516/Mik3ymomo/83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif" border="0" alt=" photo 83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif"/></a>
Why? How does that make it "best" by any conceivable metric one would measure a car by?
That build is proof enough we landed on the moon because...
<a href="http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/Mik3ymomo/media/83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t516/Mik3ymomo/83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif" border="0" alt=" photo 83746B35-73EE-492D-AD44-3CE35F00FA78.gif"/></a>
The engine is expensive because of its rarity. Just like a Ferrari Enzo motor is $150,000. Just like a Veyron motor has 4 turbo's just to make 1,000hp. Its not about being the most efficient / best cost in the world. Its about the uniqueness, the sound, the feel, the rarity, and the overall experience. Why even buy an FD to begin with if the goal is the "best" performing / cheapest car?
And to comment on Gmonsen's post,
It doesn't necessarily cost 35k. Alot of the cost is in fabrication work. I spent WAY less than that and performed the swap in under 6 months. The car performs flawlessly and makes over 700rwhp before 20psi on pump gasoline. I'd estimate costs at around 20-22K doing the work on your own.
If you want a V8 to make that power, costs aren't going to be so much less
09-03-15, 09:52 AM
#85
He could've easily have spent that money on making hp alone. Not everyone wants a full blown out 500hp FD. To him, that build was exactly what he was looking for if you read his posts. Something that is practically like a stock FD but improved. He believes that the 3 rotor should have been put into the factory FD. So no, in my opinion, everyone has their own goals in mind and he achieved it. He wasn't aiming for power... so I don't see your point.
09-03-15, 09:55 AM
#87
The engine is expensive because of its rarity. Just like a Ferrari Enzo motor is $150,000. Just like a Veyron motor has 4 turbo's just to make 1,000hp. Its not about being the most efficient / best cost in the world. Its about the uniqueness, the sound, the feel, the rarity, and the overall experience. Why even buy an FD to begin with if the goal is the "best" performing / cheapest car?
And to comment on Gmonsen's post,
It doesn't necessarily cost 35k. Alot of the cost is in fabrication work. I spent WAY less than that and performed the swap in under 6 months. The car performs flawlessly and makes over 700rwhp before 20psi on pump gasoline. I'd estimate costs at around 20-22K doing the work on your own.
If you want a V8 to make that power, costs aren't going to be so much less
And to comment on Gmonsen's post,
It doesn't necessarily cost 35k. Alot of the cost is in fabrication work. I spent WAY less than that and performed the swap in under 6 months. The car performs flawlessly and makes over 700rwhp before 20psi on pump gasoline. I'd estimate costs at around 20-22K doing the work on your own.
If you want a V8 to make that power, costs aren't going to be so much less
09-03-15, 10:01 AM
#88
You can't explain that to certain people, they just will not understand. Most of the people on here that are back lashing his swap don't even understand why Gmonsen did it in the first place. Again, its differences of opinions.. they believe in reliability (which isn't wrong btw).
09-03-15, 10:03 AM
#89
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This is hilarious.
But to those that haven't made a decision which way to go, or are on the fence being persuaded by all the V8 stuff getting swapped into every car everywhere, its not unique in any way. Ride in a 3 Rotor or a 600rwhp 13b and tell me you wish you had an N/A V8 Hell the sound alone is worth the risk!
But to those that haven't made a decision which way to go, or are on the fence being persuaded by all the V8 stuff getting swapped into every car everywhere, its not unique in any way. Ride in a 3 Rotor or a 600rwhp 13b and tell me you wish you had an N/A V8
Hell the sound alone is worth the risk!My experiences in rotary cars have been 400+ hp and they are crazy, lots of noise and junk. HOWEVER, bang for the buck a LS car will win every single time. See, I have also ridden in boosted LS cars, there is nothing like it, where the 7 is "refined" the LS just wants more, constantly. It feels like it never stops pulling and that no matter what it will give you more.
plus my least favorite part of the rotary is the exhaust.
09-03-15, 10:09 AM
#90
My experiences in rotary cars have been 400+ hp and they are crazy, lots of noise and junk. HOWEVER, bang for the buck a LS car will win every single time. See, I have also ridden in boosted LS cars, there is nothing like it, where the 7 is "refined" the LS just wants more, constantly. It feels like it never stops pulling and that no matter what it will give you more.
plus my least favorite part of the rotary is the exhaust.
plus my least favorite part of the rotary is the exhaust.
You're right, the CBR brothers should just remove this shitty 1600rwhp 4-Rotor 110mm 205mph 6 second motor and replace with a cheaper more realiable V8 that wins every time because the exhaust sounds like ****.
09-03-15, 10:12 AM
#91
This is hilarious.
Why don't Ferrari owners just rip out the stupid overpriced motors and swap in LS platforms, so much cheaper, easier to maintain, and can make just as much power. Not to mention, you can just go down the street and change your plugs/wires/alternator for cheap.
^This is the same kinda way (sarcasm above)
Why don't Ferrari owners just rip out the stupid overpriced motors and swap in LS platforms, so much cheaper, easier to maintain, and can make just as much power. Not to mention, you can just go down the street and change your plugs/wires/alternator for cheap.
^This is the same kinda way (sarcasm above)
Unless you meant to show the stark differences. As one is regarded and hailed by millions as the greatest manufacturer of high performance racing and fine automobiles; while the other sits on a trash heap of despair.
Yes, different.
I wonder if people held onto the steam engine with such a death grip...
09-03-15, 10:15 AM
#92
The Hilarity began at your comparison with Ferrari.
Unless you meant to show the stark differences. As one is regarded and hailed by millions as the greatest manufacturer of high performance racing and fine automobiles; while the other sits on a trash heap of despair.
Yes, different.
I wonder if people held onto the steam engine with such a death grip...
Unless you meant to show the stark differences. As one is regarded and hailed by millions as the greatest manufacturer of high performance racing and fine automobiles; while the other sits on a trash heap of despair.
Yes, different.
I wonder if people held onto the steam engine with such a death grip...
09-03-15, 10:16 AM
#93
09-03-15, 10:26 AM
#96
Not much at all actually. Thanks for teaching me about the v12
I've only swapped:
13brew - FB
13brew - RX8
Rb25 - S14
SC400 V8 - S13
20b - FD
So essentially I'm a newbie, please fill me in on what I'm missing out on. Its seems I've missed the point 5 times now, because I should have done an LSX each time right?
I've only swapped:
13brew - FB
13brew - RX8
Rb25 - S14
SC400 V8 - S13
20b - FD
So essentially I'm a newbie, please fill me in on what I'm missing out on. Its seems I've missed the point 5 times now, because I should have done an LSX each time right?
09-03-15, 10:28 AM
#97
Not much at all actually. Thanks for teaching me about the v12
I've only swapped:
13brew - FB
13brew - RX8
Rb25 - S14
SC400 V8 - S13
20b - FD
So essentially I'm a newbie, please fill me in on what I'm missing out on. Its seems I've missed the point 5 times now, because I should have done an LSX each time right?
I've only swapped:
13brew - FB
13brew - RX8
Rb25 - S14
SC400 V8 - S13
20b - FD
So essentially I'm a newbie, please fill me in on what I'm missing out on. Its seems I've missed the point 5 times now, because I should have done an LSX each time right?
09-03-15, 10:42 AM
#99
My current rx7 weighs 2760 with driver and full tank of e85. V8, 4speed auto, Turbo, 8.8 IRS swap, caged. If I swapped to a stick(t56) it would be ~150#s less. It has full stereo, sub in box with amp( another 40-50pounds). Would be in the 25XX range or lower EZ as a road race car although I wouldn't stay turbo a procharger would be a better fit.
I've had:
93, 13b Streetport stock twins -> started a 20b swap then parted it out
93, 13b Streetport 99 twins -> Larger port and 40r -> NA LS3 -> Turbo LS3
93, 13b stockport 99s, blew a whole rotor, sold it
84, 13b GSLE, gave to a friend
94, came ls6 swapped, parted
93, 13b large port 70trim, sold
I don't drive my cars lightly, they constantly are used at their fullest. The current LS3 has lasted the longest(4 years of abuse), we are even running it over 1000 at the crank 2.5x the factory rating.
I've had:
93, 13b Streetport stock twins -> started a 20b swap then parted it out
93, 13b Streetport 99 twins -> Larger port and 40r -> NA LS3 -> Turbo LS3
93, 13b stockport 99s, blew a whole rotor, sold it
84, 13b GSLE, gave to a friend
94, came ls6 swapped, parted
93, 13b large port 70trim, sold
I don't drive my cars lightly, they constantly are used at their fullest. The current LS3 has lasted the longest(4 years of abuse), we are even running it over 1000 at the crank 2.5x the factory rating.
09-03-15, 11:08 AM
#100
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I am about 80% done with my v8 conversion. I've had my FD for 15 or 16 years at this point, normal upgrades and it was great, little issues here and there but nothing too bad. But then I started tracking it... Sure a 3 rotor NA, or if I am really dreaming a 4 rotor, would be great for my power needs and would do away with all the turbo related issues but I couldn't afford it. And I've had the car with me for so long I can't imagine selling it just to buy a BMW or something else. I know what's been done to my car and it's already paid for...
So by selling all my "parts" from the rotary setup I will only be spending a couple grand more to have a pretty nice setup. That being said I might hate it, I will absolutely miss the sound, the smoothness of the tranny and the non-linear acceleration, but I will not miss the constant tinkering and worrying about something going wrong at the track. Hopefully I can go through a few seasons without any major issues and that will make me happy. If I just don't like the car afterwards then I'll sell it and find something else, which at this point is a very small list.
For a street car I say rotary all day, but for a track car with someone working two jobs and a family, I just can't spend the extra time messing with it, plus I don't really enjoy working on my car, I want to drive it. Hopefully the whole experience isn't lost but I guess I'll find out.
And I know people will say the LS's have their issues, and anything will, but from everyone I've talked to there will be a lot less in the long run and that's what I am after.
So by selling all my "parts" from the rotary setup I will only be spending a couple grand more to have a pretty nice setup. That being said I might hate it, I will absolutely miss the sound, the smoothness of the tranny and the non-linear acceleration, but I will not miss the constant tinkering and worrying about something going wrong at the track. Hopefully I can go through a few seasons without any major issues and that will make me happy. If I just don't like the car afterwards then I'll sell it and find something else, which at this point is a very small list.
For a street car I say rotary all day, but for a track car with someone working two jobs and a family, I just can't spend the extra time messing with it, plus I don't really enjoy working on my car, I want to drive it. Hopefully the whole experience isn't lost but I guess I'll find out.
And I know people will say the LS's have their issues, and anything will, but from everyone I've talked to there will be a lot less in the long run and that's what I am after.