View Poll Results: Preferred Oil Viscosity
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll
Oil Viscosity
I have seen just about every brand of oil you can think of besides RP.
I love walmart. They have everything and good prices too. Not to mention literally 2 minutes from my house
Last edited by dgeesaman; Jan 23, 2009 at 07:54 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: NC
most likely nothing, I'm sure it's a good oil, but it would be interesting to see how it stacks up against Amsoil 20w-50 in standardized tests...the Amsoil marketing hype use to be a major turn off, but I've seen enough independent studies and UOAs on BITOG to know it pretty much tops everything out there...I haven't seen jack on Idemitsu, just marketing claims
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Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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From: NC
I have some of this in my garage, and I wasn't sure what to think when I saw you using diesel oil in your car. I admit it, I might have scoffed at the idea. But your post prompted me to read into that a little.
The short answer is that for a petrol piston engine, the level of detergents in a diesel oil is too high. The compression levels are so high in most piston engines that the clean-burning formula of a diesel oil is not sufficient. It also has plenty of anti-foaming agents not needed in auto engines.
However, it seems to be a good fit for our needs - it's clean burning and there is no such thing as "too clean" of an engine. The Shell Rotella is also affordable at $20/4qts. There remains the question of what it does to catalytic converters, which diesels don't have. Many additives out there are not good for cats.
It begs the question exactly what is in the Idemitsu that makes it most suitable to rotaries - perhaps it's more similar to diesel oil than regular oil?
Dave
The short answer is that for a petrol piston engine, the level of detergents in a diesel oil is too high. The compression levels are so high in most piston engines that the clean-burning formula of a diesel oil is not sufficient. It also has plenty of anti-foaming agents not needed in auto engines.
However, it seems to be a good fit for our needs - it's clean burning and there is no such thing as "too clean" of an engine. The Shell Rotella is also affordable at $20/4qts. There remains the question of what it does to catalytic converters, which diesels don't have. Many additives out there are not good for cats.
It begs the question exactly what is in the Idemitsu that makes it most suitable to rotaries - perhaps it's more similar to diesel oil than regular oil?
Dave
btw ... compression ratios in a diesel engine ... are at least 2x the ones found in petrol engines
diesel works by ... igniting itself because of the high compression ratio
Yes, of course. Double the compression ratio = double the combustion pressure
So if you take a rotary that normally runs at atmospheric (15psia) and add another 10-15psi of boost, you get ... double the combustion pressure.
This math is extremely rough, but I can't see why a boosted engine is a whole lot different from a diesel. Just glow vs. spark plugs, octane, and AFRs.
So if you take a rotary that normally runs at atmospheric (15psia) and add another 10-15psi of boost, you get ... double the combustion pressure.
This math is extremely rough, but I can't see why a boosted engine is a whole lot different from a diesel. Just glow vs. spark plugs, octane, and AFRs.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
hello all. i just read the thread. wow, 155 posts on oil.
this year i added an FJO oil pressure and oil temperature system i consider both to be important and watch them carefully. considering that a lowly 400 rwhp rotary is making 2.89 hp per cubic inch oil and oil temp is actually a really important subject.
guess my brand
i run Mobil One 5-30 in my FD and have since 99. i had been running a higher viscosity Mobil One until about 4 years ago when my friend Jose LeDuc emphatically told me to run nothing but 5-30.
Jose has never steered me wrong so i didn't give it a thought and switched. i can assure all that Jose knows my car inside and out. he did the side seals on my 04 motor that i recently disassembled just out of curiosity. it is absolutely perfect. literally one thousandth side seal wear in 4 years and 120 dyno pulls at 498 rwhp. bearings perfect etc. i will just refresh it and reinstall. i change oil every 3000 miles. my oil does not smell of gasoline BTW...
Jose not only makes over 980 rwhp from his 13 B-REWs but they stay together for a shockingly long time. as i have said, when he speaks i listen.
i haven't really thought anything thru re my oil but do appreciate dilution etc. i will say that when i was on the dyno last sep i looked at my oil pressure gauge when the engine was at 8000 in fourth gear and it registered 75 pounds. i run 2 oil coolers and consider them essential.
another item that has been mentioned is ZDDP. as many know the gov'mint has removed anti wear substances from our oil. i like anti wear. i have added 4 oz of GM's ZDDP product at every oil change. GM no longer offers the real stuff so i have switched to Competition Cams product. they own the cam business and know wear.
i was sponsored by Mobil One during my racing career and use their lube in my trans and rear end. i use Mobil One wheel bearing grease. (if it is good enough for the nose wheel bearing in the F15... )
that's all i know about oil.
hc
this year i added an FJO oil pressure and oil temperature system i consider both to be important and watch them carefully. considering that a lowly 400 rwhp rotary is making 2.89 hp per cubic inch oil and oil temp is actually a really important subject.
guess my brand
i run Mobil One 5-30 in my FD and have since 99. i had been running a higher viscosity Mobil One until about 4 years ago when my friend Jose LeDuc emphatically told me to run nothing but 5-30.
Jose has never steered me wrong so i didn't give it a thought and switched. i can assure all that Jose knows my car inside and out. he did the side seals on my 04 motor that i recently disassembled just out of curiosity. it is absolutely perfect. literally one thousandth side seal wear in 4 years and 120 dyno pulls at 498 rwhp. bearings perfect etc. i will just refresh it and reinstall. i change oil every 3000 miles. my oil does not smell of gasoline BTW...
Jose not only makes over 980 rwhp from his 13 B-REWs but they stay together for a shockingly long time. as i have said, when he speaks i listen.
i haven't really thought anything thru re my oil but do appreciate dilution etc. i will say that when i was on the dyno last sep i looked at my oil pressure gauge when the engine was at 8000 in fourth gear and it registered 75 pounds. i run 2 oil coolers and consider them essential.
another item that has been mentioned is ZDDP. as many know the gov'mint has removed anti wear substances from our oil. i like anti wear. i have added 4 oz of GM's ZDDP product at every oil change. GM no longer offers the real stuff so i have switched to Competition Cams product. they own the cam business and know wear.
i was sponsored by Mobil One during my racing career and use their lube in my trans and rear end. i use Mobil One wheel bearing grease. (if it is good enough for the nose wheel bearing in the F15... )
that's all i know about oil.
hc
PS. I dont know why my other post was edited. I dont think i said anything improper.
Now that i think of it, maybe someone didnt agree when i said walmart has ALOT of automotive stuff? Because if so, they dont have a "GOOD" walmart near them.
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
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From: NC
Jose has never steered me wrong so i didn't give it a thought and switched. i can assure all that Jose knows my car inside and out. he did the side seals on my 04 motor that i recently disassembled just out of curiosity. it is absolutely perfect. literally one thousandth side seal wear in 4 years and 120 dyno pulls at 498 rwhp. bearings perfect etc. i will just refresh it and reinstall. i change oil every 3000 miles. my oil does not smell of gasoline BTW
and that's the key point: no fuel dilution, no need for higher viscosities...now, if we can just isolate the primary cause(s) of fuel dilution in these engines, we're making progress
Lol, I guess he was trying to help you out with your spelling.
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
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From: NC
another item that has been mentioned is ZDDP. as many know the gov'mint has removed anti wear substances from our oil. i like anti wear. i have added 4 oz of GM's ZDDP product at every oil change. GM no longer offers the real stuff so i have switched to Competition Cams product. they own the cam business and know wear
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ssic_Cars.aspx
Mods on this forum must be pretty bored if thats the case.
Well, i'll try not to misspell A WHOLE LOT.
I win
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,875
Likes: 2
From: NJ
hello all. i just read the thread. wow, 155 posts on oil.
this year i added an FJO oil pressure and oil temperature system i consider both to be important and watch them carefully. considering that a lowly 400 rwhp rotary is making 2.89 hp per cubic inch oil and oil temp is actually a really important subject.
guess my brand
i run Mobil One 5-30 in my FD and have since 99. i had been running a higher viscosity Mobil One until about 4 years ago when my friend Jose LeDuc emphatically told me to run nothing but 5-30.
Jose has never steered me wrong so i didn't give it a thought and switched. i can assure all that Jose knows my car inside and out. he did the side seals on my 04 motor that i recently disassembled just out of curiosity. it is absolutely perfect. literally one thousandth side seal wear in 4 years and 120 dyno pulls at 498 rwhp. bearings perfect etc. i will just refresh it and reinstall. i change oil every 3000 miles. my oil does not smell of gasoline BTW...
Jose not only makes over 980 rwhp from his 13 B-REWs but they stay together for a shockingly long time. as i have said, when he speaks i listen.
i haven't really thought anything thru re my oil but do appreciate dilution etc. i will say that when i was on the dyno last sep i looked at my oil pressure gauge when the engine was at 8000 in fourth gear and it registered 75 pounds. i run 2 oil coolers and consider them essential.
another item that has been mentioned is ZDDP. as many know the gov'mint has removed anti wear substances from our oil. i like anti wear. i have added 4 oz of GM's ZDDP product at every oil change. GM no longer offers the real stuff so i have switched to Competition Cams product. they own the cam business and know wear.
i was sponsored by Mobil One during my racing career and use their lube in my trans and rear end. i use Mobil One wheel bearing grease. (if it is good enough for the nose wheel bearing in the F15... )
that's all i know about oil.
hc
this year i added an FJO oil pressure and oil temperature system i consider both to be important and watch them carefully. considering that a lowly 400 rwhp rotary is making 2.89 hp per cubic inch oil and oil temp is actually a really important subject.
guess my brand
i run Mobil One 5-30 in my FD and have since 99. i had been running a higher viscosity Mobil One until about 4 years ago when my friend Jose LeDuc emphatically told me to run nothing but 5-30.
Jose has never steered me wrong so i didn't give it a thought and switched. i can assure all that Jose knows my car inside and out. he did the side seals on my 04 motor that i recently disassembled just out of curiosity. it is absolutely perfect. literally one thousandth side seal wear in 4 years and 120 dyno pulls at 498 rwhp. bearings perfect etc. i will just refresh it and reinstall. i change oil every 3000 miles. my oil does not smell of gasoline BTW...
Jose not only makes over 980 rwhp from his 13 B-REWs but they stay together for a shockingly long time. as i have said, when he speaks i listen.
i haven't really thought anything thru re my oil but do appreciate dilution etc. i will say that when i was on the dyno last sep i looked at my oil pressure gauge when the engine was at 8000 in fourth gear and it registered 75 pounds. i run 2 oil coolers and consider them essential.
another item that has been mentioned is ZDDP. as many know the gov'mint has removed anti wear substances from our oil. i like anti wear. i have added 4 oz of GM's ZDDP product at every oil change. GM no longer offers the real stuff so i have switched to Competition Cams product. they own the cam business and know wear.
i was sponsored by Mobil One during my racing career and use their lube in my trans and rear end. i use Mobil One wheel bearing grease. (if it is good enough for the nose wheel bearing in the F15... )
that's all i know about oil.
hc
Thanks for your post Howard. You pay more attention to what is actually going on inside your motor than anyone else I have read about.
You really shouldn't be putting motor oil on cats.... 
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
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From: NC
apparently we need more "Jose" rotary engine builders....for the rest of us, fuel dilution will continue to be a major problem
Howard, would you consider getting your oil analyzed next time? If you can't smell gas, it would be interesting to confirm it's less than 0.5% fuel dilution, which is what it should be...it would also be interesting to look at the viscosity...what was the total mileage on the engine during that four year period?
Howard, would you consider getting your oil analyzed next time? If you can't smell gas, it would be interesting to confirm it's less than 0.5% fuel dilution, which is what it should be...it would also be interesting to look at the viscosity...what was the total mileage on the engine during that four year period?
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
From: NC
royal purple probably has enough perfume in it to cover the stink that stuff is ****, worst of the synthetics, well documented on s2ki and other forums...Valvoline Synpower, Penz Platinum, Amsoil, Mobil 1 EP all blow it right out of the water
smell is all well and good, but your nose is not an analytical test (especially if you're an old shop guy, and your sensitivity to gasoline is pretty much shot), and there's an excellent chance the oil still has gas in it
Amsoil 20w-50 ftw
that stuff is ****, worst of the synthetics, well documented on s2ki and other forums...Valvoline Synpower, Penz Platinum, Amsoil, Mobil 1 EP all blow it right out of the watersmell is all well and good, but your nose is not an analytical test (especially if you're an old shop guy, and your sensitivity to gasoline is pretty much shot), and there's an excellent chance the oil still has gas in it
Amsoil 20w-50 ftw
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
"apparently we need more "Jose" rotary engine builders....for the rest of us, fuel dilution will continue to be a major problem"
most dilution comes from sloppy side seal settings...
"Howard, would you consider getting your oil analyzed next time? If you can't smell gas, it would be interesting to confirm it's less than 0.5% fuel dilution, which is what it should be..."
sure, i am always int'd in what's going on.
"what was the total mileage on the engine during that four year period?"
14,000 miles. (everything gets disassembled in the winter in wisconsin although i didn't touch the motor in 4 years)
hc
most dilution comes from sloppy side seal settings...
"Howard, would you consider getting your oil analyzed next time? If you can't smell gas, it would be interesting to confirm it's less than 0.5% fuel dilution, which is what it should be..."
sure, i am always int'd in what's going on.
"what was the total mileage on the engine during that four year period?"
14,000 miles. (everything gets disassembled in the winter in wisconsin although i didn't touch the motor in 4 years)
hc
what is considered fully warmed up in your case
what is the water temp and oil temp and where do you read teh temps from ?
I win
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,875
Likes: 2
From: NJ
royal purple probably has enough perfume in it to cover the stink that stuff is ****, worst of the synthetics, well documented on s2ki and other forums...Valvoline Synpower, Penz Platinum, Amsoil, Mobil 1 EP all blow it right out of the water
smell is all well and good, but your nose is not an analytical test (especially if you're an old shop guy, and your sensitivity to gasoline is pretty much shot), and there's an excellent chance the oil still has gas in it
Amsoil 20w-50 ftw
that stuff is ****, worst of the synthetics, well documented on s2ki and other forums...Valvoline Synpower, Penz Platinum, Amsoil, Mobil 1 EP all blow it right out of the watersmell is all well and good, but your nose is not an analytical test (especially if you're an old shop guy, and your sensitivity to gasoline is pretty much shot), and there's an excellent chance the oil still has gas in it
Amsoil 20w-50 ftw
I remember I had a turbo fc with a built atkins engine... 3mm seals and ported. When I would change the oil on that it would STINK of gas but I had it checked out and was told that it's normal.
But today after I drained it, I kept on sniffing it. I smelled it a little bit but nothing like the FC I had.
And on the FC this was the first oil change on the motor at about 1500-2000 miles.