oil consumption problems
11-16-05, 05:09 PM
#1
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oil consumption problems
well as far as i can tell ive burned through more than a quart of 20w50 in 2 tanks of gas. it seems to only be a problem when im on the turbos at higher RPM's for an extended period of time. the thing is... i dont see any oil in the intake tract which leads me to believe its NOT the turbos. the other problem that my be related is.... in neutral if i rev the car to anything above 6K RPM i get a nice cloud of blue smoke.
any ideas guys? sounds internal to me. what can i check, and what are your thoughts as to possible causes. the motor has 87K on it, and its an original motor. (if it is internal... now may be a good time for a teardown and rebuild.... before i blow a seal and ruin the housings). -heath
any ideas guys? sounds internal to me. what can i check, and what are your thoughts as to possible causes. the motor has 87K on it, and its an original motor. (if it is internal... now may be a good time for a teardown and rebuild.... before i blow a seal and ruin the housings). -heath
11-16-05, 05:16 PM
#2
If this just started and your oil consumption did not gradually get to this point, I am guessing an inner o-ring seal on one of the rotors has failed. This will put a great deal of oil into the combustion chamber and cause your oil loss and exhaust smoke. Do you still have your main cat?
11-16-05, 06:22 PM
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you think its the o-ring? does it make sense that the problem would be worse at higher RPM's? i dont have the main cat on anymore.... it clogged a few months back (possibly related?) and now i have a metalic substrate cat on. hmmph 
11-16-05, 08:48 PM
#5
Turbos.
Turbos can be bad in several ways. Not all can be verified or tested. They can push oil through the intake tract and eventually into the combustion chamber to be burned. They can push oil into the exhaust tract where it hits the hot housing/downpipe and turns to smoke. They can leak oil externally where it will hit the hot manifold/turbine housing and cause smoke in the engine bay and out the back of the car while moving.
IF the problem seems inconsistent then it is likely not an engine internal issue. Once an engine starts smoking it will rarely stop. Turbos, however, can behave this way in my experience. Especially if they tend to smoke when cold or at idle, but not when they have been spinning a little bit such as highway driving. Other times they will only smoke when in heavy boost at high rpms and no other time.
Turbos can be bad in several ways. Not all can be verified or tested. They can push oil through the intake tract and eventually into the combustion chamber to be burned. They can push oil into the exhaust tract where it hits the hot housing/downpipe and turns to smoke. They can leak oil externally where it will hit the hot manifold/turbine housing and cause smoke in the engine bay and out the back of the car while moving.
IF the problem seems inconsistent then it is likely not an engine internal issue. Once an engine starts smoking it will rarely stop. Turbos, however, can behave this way in my experience. Especially if they tend to smoke when cold or at idle, but not when they have been spinning a little bit such as highway driving. Other times they will only smoke when in heavy boost at high rpms and no other time.
11-17-05, 12:30 PM
#6
From my experience, you are losing too much oil for it to be just turbo seals. That is not to say the Rotary Ressurrection is not right. It still could be the turbos.
The problem here is that your motor and turbos are getting fairly long in the tooth (by example, my original turbos and motor went at 107,000 and 110,000, respectively). If you build-up and repair one part of the equation (the turbos, for example), it will not be long after that the other part of the equation will fail. New and improved turbos will mean more efficient boost which stresses a weak engine more and ultimately blows an old oil, coolant or apex seal. In short, you are probably not far from rebuilding/replacing both units anyway.
If you cannot afford to do both, I would check with a mechanic you trust, make your best guess as to which component is failing and rebuild/replace that unit. The only draw back to doing turbos first is that if an apex seal later blows in the motor you could damage the turbos.
The problem here is that your motor and turbos are getting fairly long in the tooth (by example, my original turbos and motor went at 107,000 and 110,000, respectively). If you build-up and repair one part of the equation (the turbos, for example), it will not be long after that the other part of the equation will fail. New and improved turbos will mean more efficient boost which stresses a weak engine more and ultimately blows an old oil, coolant or apex seal. In short, you are probably not far from rebuilding/replacing both units anyway.
If you cannot afford to do both, I would check with a mechanic you trust, make your best guess as to which component is failing and rebuild/replace that unit. The only draw back to doing turbos first is that if an apex seal later blows in the motor you could damage the turbos.
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11-17-05, 04:38 PM
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well this particular car is going to remain relatively stock as i already am working on a "project FD" .... but my question is: would you guys be more inclined (if you were in my position) to pull the motor and send it off to be rebuilt? or just order a reman? the car still runs decently so i dont know if a rebuild would be jumping the gun at this point. i could possibly attempt a rebuild on my own... but knowing myself i would never see my car running again 
... not to mention i already have one non running FD in my yard 
. and if i were to have a rebuild/reman swap done would you recomend that i get one of the turbo rebuild kits? ive already torn down the turbos... looking back it was a waste not to have done a preemptive rebuild while they were apart for porting. -heath
... not to mention i already have one non running FD in my yard . and if i were to have a rebuild/reman swap done would you recomend that i get one of the turbo rebuild kits? ive already torn down the turbos... looking back it was a waste not to have done a preemptive rebuild while they were apart for porting. -heath
11-17-05, 05:18 PM
#9
If the car is going to remain stock and you do not plan to port the motor or have special coating applied to the rotor housings/rotors, a remaned motor is my recommendation. With a remaned motor you have a local dealer you can deal with if there is a problem with the motor. Having it sent out to be rebuilt now means you are dealing with someone far away who may or may not honor a warranty on the thing. I am not speaking of any rebuilders in particular, but you know the risk. You will also need to pull the motor, send it away and wait for the rebuild to return. It is a lot nicer when you can pull the old motor, set the old motor next to the new motor, move parts from one to the other, and then reinstall the new motor--usually in a weekend.
Rebuilding the motor yourself is a big undertaking. Though the process is straight forward enough, you will need new rotor housings, the end plates and middle plate will need to be decked, and you will need to track down the various gasket and seal kits for the job. And that's all before you get to the dozen or so things you break in tear-down and reassembly. These projects usually string on for months. Just ask Mahjik and Rynberg.
Rebuilding the turbos is also a bit tricky. Some special tools are required and then you need to have them babies balanced. Might be better off having a skilled turbo rebuilder do the rebuild.
Rebuilding the motor yourself is a big undertaking. Though the process is straight forward enough, you will need new rotor housings, the end plates and middle plate will need to be decked, and you will need to track down the various gasket and seal kits for the job. And that's all before you get to the dozen or so things you break in tear-down and reassembly. These projects usually string on for months. Just ask Mahjik and Rynberg.
Rebuilding the turbos is also a bit tricky. Some special tools are required and then you need to have them babies balanced. Might be better off having a skilled turbo rebuilder do the rebuild.
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