clayne

I'm having deja vu since we've already been over this argument.

In your case of slower speed driving on tight courses, i.e. auto-x, I can see the benefits of power steering, Damon. However, for some of us who do remove it, it is not necessarily just to make the car more "harsh" as a reminder (although I could see some people doing this).

Driving position reduces fatigue and increases muscular advantage and endurance over the car, power steering or not.

Aren't you also 6'4"?

DamonB

In my barefeet; yes. With a helmet on I have to duck slightly to keep from hitting the roof, but I find at speed I do this naturally and don't have to think about it.

...and I don't just autox at "slow" speeds. The car sees track days at least several times a year while on race tires along with 20+ autox's.

"Stiffer" does not mean higher quality feedback, it just means it takes more effort to steer. Humans are more sensitive to force than displacement but once you train people to relax and concentrate in the car while they are driving they find all they need is already there. They just have to learn to "listen". Removal of the p/s is not going to improve the driver.

Kento

What was your quotable phrase in the other thread?

"Some drivers want the car to 'shout' to them, while others only need it to 'whisper'..."

clayne

I do not disagree that it is irrelevant from driver. However, to go by displacement is to gauge input and force. To go by force, is to go by force - which is innate.

Shad Laws

Hello-

My seating position is fine... that's not the problem. 180-degree hairpins with a radius of 10 feet and a grade of 25%+ (i.e. added downforce and therefore traction and therefore steering aligning moment when accelerating up) are the problem. These turns are so snappy that you consider downshifting into 1st gear... 2nd is lugging the engine.

Speaking of driving position, you're not supposed to clutch the wheel. You want some force feedback, but not so much that you have to brace yourself between the seat and wheel to crank it hard enough. Again, this only applies to REALLY windy spots... the kinds where the roadsigns say "5 mph" on them (which means 15-20mph for me :-). It's just too much.

Take care,
Shad

clayne

Personally I tend to not be too interested in those types of roads as you cannot safely come close to the apex without jumping lanes. A 5 mph turn like that puts the car on an exaggerated radius unless you jump the center.

So which is it? 9, 84, 35, Bear Creek, etc.?

Shad Laws

Heck... all of them I suppose... :-). I haven't been around here long enough to know *all* of them like the back of my hand, so on most of them I don't push it all that hard. However, Page Mill Rd. and I have a very intimate relationship... we know each other pretty well. I basically go as quick as my driving ability, the road condition, and my visibility allow (blind turns are bad when there are cyclists on the road). I live in Palo Alto, so it is really close, and has no traffic, and doesn't need 3rd gear very often, and has a full two lanes. Most of my cruises consist of me plowing up Page Mill at warp speed, then cruising along skyline (35) to some other road, then wandering around for a bit until I wind up on 1 or 280, then I come home.

Where do you wander around up here? A pair of FD's snaking through the roads would be fun...

Take care,
Shad

jeepguy04

iTrader: (1)

I fully agree. The guy who had my car before me replaced the whole thing with a full manual rack (pretty sure it was from an FC but not totally sure). It feels great Took me a week or two to get used to parking with it when I first got the car. But now I love it. I also like having the extra room in the engine bay.

TracyRX7

...is there any benefit to removing the PS other than getting some engine bay space back and removing 1 more thing that can break?

I know air conditioning robs a fair amount of HP from the engine, what about the PS pump?

skunks

drift with out ps is damn near impossible...

WHIPSrx7

I LOVE NO POWER STEERING!!!

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

this sure is an interesting thread as there's plenty of opinion on both sides and i don't have a problem w any of it...

that said i think removing the power steering on my car in '99 was one of the best mods i have made. i don't think the steering effort is heavy and i believe there is no such thing as road feel with any kind of power steering. you might as well be driving a video game.

we fd owners appreciate what a great roadcar the fd is and yet the most important thing in the car, the most tactile element of it, the thing we hold on to--- with power steering---- is dumb as a stone.

secondly, i absolutlely hate front weight. my car has 48% front weight. i also hate anything in the engine compartment but the engine. obviously no power steering, no a-c, no air pump etc... it is much cooler in the engine compartment without all the heat soaked iron. changing spark plugs takes 5 minutes.

while designing the fd, mazda had 2 teams that worked for a year, couldn't talk to each other, whose sole function was to get weight out of the car... and then they decide to put power steering in it?

hey, run it if you wish. it is (was) a free country and we can't be all divorced from the same woman.

sorry... just had to get it off my chest.

I LOVE NO POWER STEERING.

howard coleman

DrunkenBowler

Good luck with that. I perfer women though. I have a civ as my daily driver and that has no p/s. It's not bad. The FD is a project car and has some time before it's runnin' again .