New member/FD owner, some questions... LONG
06-07-04, 01:39 AM
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New member/FD owner, some questions... LONG
All... I just bought a '93 FD with the intent to slap an LS1 in it at some point in the future.
However, the future is still (quite) a ways off, and I'd like to have some fun with the 13B first. Anyhow, the car will soon be on its way to me, as I bought it off of eBay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT ).
It apparently already has some of the "reliability" mods, having a Fluidyne radiator and a Pettit AST. Additionally, it also has a Pettit intake setup. I eBay'd a 3" down/mid-pipe combo already, and am bidding on an HKS knock-off cat-back. Also planning on bidding on a Peter Farrell bolt-in (stock location, not front mount) IC. On top of THAT, I'm planning on getting ahold of an AFC, installing a bigger fuel pump, and replacing the secondary injectors with a set of 1000cc units.
All of this is in the name of trying to get the car up into the 350-375 RWHP range on pump gas (we get 93 octane here in Texas); my current "fun" car is an '01 Z28 w/ a fairly aggressive heads/cam setup (440 RWHP), and I'd like the RX7 to be able to provide the same kind of jollies (in a straight line) while GREATLY exceding the handling abilities of the Camaro. Given the lighter weight of the FD, it would take something like 367 RWHP to give me the same power:weight ratio as my current car has (I know that the rotary probably won't come close to equalling the torque:weight of the Camaro, but I'm willing to deal with that).
My questions lie in the area of the turbos... could the stock turbos (assuming that they are in decent condition) support this kind of power?? Perhaps if converted to non-sequential?? Or should I go for a smallish single setup?? I already bought an OBX header for a single (I figure that I can sell it pretty easily if I need to).
The idea with the whole project is to buy as many used parts as possible so that I can get my money back (maybe not all of it, but most of it) when I do the LS1 swap.
Does anyone have any comments?? Am I asking too much?? A friend of mine is pretty rotary-knowledgeable and he feels that I'd be pushing my luck trying to hit those power numbers on pump gas w/ out having a built/ported engine.
Thanks for any input.
However, the future is still (quite) a ways off, and I'd like to have some fun with the 13B first. Anyhow, the car will soon be on its way to me, as I bought it off of eBay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT ).
It apparently already has some of the "reliability" mods, having a Fluidyne radiator and a Pettit AST. Additionally, it also has a Pettit intake setup. I eBay'd a 3" down/mid-pipe combo already, and am bidding on an HKS knock-off cat-back. Also planning on bidding on a Peter Farrell bolt-in (stock location, not front mount) IC. On top of THAT, I'm planning on getting ahold of an AFC, installing a bigger fuel pump, and replacing the secondary injectors with a set of 1000cc units.
All of this is in the name of trying to get the car up into the 350-375 RWHP range on pump gas (we get 93 octane here in Texas); my current "fun" car is an '01 Z28 w/ a fairly aggressive heads/cam setup (440 RWHP), and I'd like the RX7 to be able to provide the same kind of jollies (in a straight line) while GREATLY exceding the handling abilities of the Camaro. Given the lighter weight of the FD, it would take something like 367 RWHP to give me the same power:weight ratio as my current car has (I know that the rotary probably won't come close to equalling the torque:weight of the Camaro, but I'm willing to deal with that).
My questions lie in the area of the turbos... could the stock turbos (assuming that they are in decent condition) support this kind of power?? Perhaps if converted to non-sequential?? Or should I go for a smallish single setup?? I already bought an OBX header for a single (I figure that I can sell it pretty easily if I need to).
The idea with the whole project is to buy as many used parts as possible so that I can get my money back (maybe not all of it, but most of it) when I do the LS1 swap.
Does anyone have any comments?? Am I asking too much?? A friend of mine is pretty rotary-knowledgeable and he feels that I'd be pushing my luck trying to hit those power numbers on pump gas w/ out having a built/ported engine.
Thanks for any input.
06-07-04, 06:21 AM
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No...
No...
No...
So your goin too blow tons of money on a high power 13b just too replace it with a LS1. Even though that doesnt make any sence, You will have to get a rebuild first and you will need a single for that kind of power.
No...
No...
So your goin too blow tons of money on a high power 13b just too replace it with a LS1. Even though that doesnt make any sence, You will have to get a rebuild first and you will need a single for that kind of power.
06-07-04, 10:03 AM
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I agree with KWH. There is no point in pumping that kind of money into the 13B, including all the tuning, tweaking, and sorting that is required to get those kind of HP numbers, only to sell it off for an LS1. Just go with the LS1 from the get go. If you haven't seen it yet, check out www.hinsonsupercars.com. Pretty awesome, in my opinion.
06-07-04, 11:43 AM
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So it seems that my goals for the 13B are too aggressive without having to dump a TON of money for a rebuild and to complete the single coversion.
Regarding the money that I have spent/plan on spending on the 13B so far, I have $125 in the down/mid-pipe setup, a little over $150 in the cat-back, and if I won't pay more than $200 for an AFC. If I can't win that Peter Farrell intercooler for $300, I'll pass on it, too. Fuel pump, ~$250, injectors, ~$300 for the pair. So we're looking at about $1300, most of which I should be able to get my money back out of when I do the LS1 conversion. Hell, the exhaust is almost a necessity on these cars (from what I gather), and the rest of the parts are just in the name of safety so I can turn the boost up a bit without grenading something.
In any event, paw140... the Hinson site is what got me hot on the idea of doing the LS1 swap. I have always liked the FD's and been impressed by their handling, but my heart belongs to V8 power. With the fact that the (LS1) swap results in roughly the same vehicle weight/balance, it seems like a marriage made in heaven.
SomeGuy... I'm sure that this discussion has been had on this board a million times, and I suppose that I can see your position that I'm a butcher. However, if you can get over the fact that we're talking about a domestic (gasp!!) pushrod V8, the swap makes a lot of sense: an easy 450+ RWHP on pump gas, without having to deal with boost leaks, boost creep, instant motor destruction from detonation (hey, LS1's don't like detonation either, but they aren't nearly as sensitive to it as turbo rotaries seem to be), etc... Add in the fact that the weight/balance with the (all aluminum) LS1 is nearly the same as with the rotary, and it seems like a pretty logical thing to do. If you haven't already done so, you may want to look around the site that paw140 linked... some good information, and some good explanations about the swap. Like it or not, the LS1 is a solid motor that can make plenty of power without having to compromise reliability (okay, so a 400+ RWHP LS1 may only last 50k miles instead of 100k miles, but when was the last time you saw a (pump gas) 400+ RWHP 13B last 50k miles??).
Thanks for any input, folks.
Regarding the money that I have spent/plan on spending on the 13B so far, I have $125 in the down/mid-pipe setup, a little over $150 in the cat-back, and if I won't pay more than $200 for an AFC. If I can't win that Peter Farrell intercooler for $300, I'll pass on it, too. Fuel pump, ~$250, injectors, ~$300 for the pair. So we're looking at about $1300, most of which I should be able to get my money back out of when I do the LS1 conversion. Hell, the exhaust is almost a necessity on these cars (from what I gather), and the rest of the parts are just in the name of safety so I can turn the boost up a bit without grenading something.
In any event, paw140... the Hinson site is what got me hot on the idea of doing the LS1 swap. I have always liked the FD's and been impressed by their handling, but my heart belongs to V8 power. With the fact that the (LS1) swap results in roughly the same vehicle weight/balance, it seems like a marriage made in heaven.
SomeGuy... I'm sure that this discussion has been had on this board a million times, and I suppose that I can see your position that I'm a butcher. However, if you can get over the fact that we're talking about a domestic (gasp!!) pushrod V8, the swap makes a lot of sense: an easy 450+ RWHP on pump gas, without having to deal with boost leaks, boost creep, instant motor destruction from detonation (hey, LS1's don't like detonation either, but they aren't nearly as sensitive to it as turbo rotaries seem to be), etc... Add in the fact that the weight/balance with the (all aluminum) LS1 is nearly the same as with the rotary, and it seems like a pretty logical thing to do. If you haven't already done so, you may want to look around the site that paw140 linked... some good information, and some good explanations about the swap. Like it or not, the LS1 is a solid motor that can make plenty of power without having to compromise reliability (okay, so a 400+ RWHP LS1 may only last 50k miles instead of 100k miles, but when was the last time you saw a (pump gas) 400+ RWHP 13B last 50k miles??).
Thanks for any input, folks.
06-07-04, 12:34 PM
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You don't have the fuel or computer mods to support that horsepower. You can't do **** with an S-AFC. You will need an Apexi Power FC, 1200-1300cc secondary injectors and higher flowing fuel pump.
I strongly suggest you give the guys at Gotham Racing a call for your computer/tuning needs.
I strongly suggest you give the guys at Gotham Racing a call for your computer/tuning needs.
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06-07-04, 01:43 PM
#8
300hp to the wheels should be attainable with a used Pettit unlimited or M2 stage 3 ECU with about 12-13psi. You should be able to do that with the stock injectors and fuel pump.
You'll need an upgraded IC, cat-back and high flow cat or mid-pipe. This is really a fun FD that is pretty reliable for not a lot of $$.
Stock turbos have supported 300-330rwhp for years, 367rwhp is spinning the **** out of them and they won't last long.
I agree with others, if your goal is really 350-375rwhp then don't bother spending all the $$ on the 13B, just do the V8.
You'll need an upgraded IC, cat-back and high flow cat or mid-pipe. This is really a fun FD that is pretty reliable for not a lot of $$.
Stock turbos have supported 300-330rwhp for years, 367rwhp is spinning the **** out of them and they won't last long.
I agree with others, if your goal is really 350-375rwhp then don't bother spending all the $$ on the 13B, just do the V8.
06-07-04, 02:04 PM
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You gonna be putting a DP, MP and a CB and already you have a high flow intake without a proper fuel computer. Your turbos are gonna boost more like 11-12 lbs again without a boost controler and spike to even 13 or more which results to a blown motor very fast .
Get a PFC or even a Pettit ecu or M2 so you can runn more boost safely, I'd suggest a boost gauge and boost controler imediately.
P.S. Stick to 13b, that's the whole beauty of owning a RX-7, you'll be putting more HP than you ever imagined...
Get a PFC or even a Pettit ecu or M2 so you can runn more boost safely, I'd suggest a boost gauge and boost controler imediately.
P.S. Stick to 13b, that's the whole beauty of owning a RX-7, you'll be putting more HP than you ever imagined...
Last edited by TwinTurbo93; 06-07-04 at 02:07 PM.
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