mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

hey guys im having a lot of fun trouble shooting here. i'll brief you on what i have done so far as trouble shooting. i have a new 3mm steetported motor, r85 single turbo, brand new engine harness, alternator harness, 1600cc secondaries, 850cc primaries (kg ultimate fuel system) also im running resistors for the 850's so thats not the problem.

i have checked both crank sensors they are both within resistance spec and are not hooked up backwards. i have jump wired the fuel pump 43lbs and holding. confirmed spark (lots of it with msd box and nology wires). have compression on both rotars. running two battery's in series outside of the car so theres enough cranking power. have verified that the map is set for 1600's and 850's.

car cranks and does not show sign of combustion. i will be going down right now to test the last thing which is taking off the upper intake mani and connecting 12v to the primary injectors to make sure they are working.

any other things to check over? should i try cranking on the stocker (if possible)? i've searched the 3rd gen specific and single turbo section with out reading anything that i have not already covered. please lend any advice or knowledge here im open to anything! thank you very much for reading.

-Lance

Mechanic

if you are getting gas, air and spark... are you premixing, or omp?? Idk much about new rebuilt engines, but on a older engine of similar situation, you may be er, flooded, or no/not enough oil to seal?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Power FC? what map are you running? also, are they top feed or side feed 850s?

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

i will be doing a slight premix yet im will be running the omp still. no premixing yet! im thining the map might be too rich but it would have to be really really rich to cause it to not fire up. i've deflooded it twice so who knows. theres compression so im not about to put any caps of oil in for sealing.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

yes im running the power fc. i have map that a fellow r85 buddy used from ray wilson. they are top feeds that were provided by kg parts in the kit.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

also forgot to update that i tore off the uim and checked the primaries and yes the do work.

rich would you like to look over the map to see if possibly its spitting a little too much fuel in? if yes pm me your email.

any other responses would be greatly appreciated!

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I'm by no means a tuner, but I can compare it to the map I have for my 870cc top feeds. I'll PM you my addy. Btw, if it makes you feel any better my FD won't fire up either after a similar fuel system install, lol

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

^ lol sadly that made me laugh and i was just yelling at my friend on aim for trying to cheer me up... thanks rich

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Well, in my case I have good fuel px and the fuel system should be installed right. We're going to check ignition as well. I will tell you that my bud chris carlisi told me he had to really change the cranking map to get his car to start with new top feed prims (vs old side feed prims) by adding quite a bit more fuel.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

your talking the cranking (ms) on page two right! i was just thinking of that 5 mins ago. what percentages was he working with? do you think you could get those 6 plots for me?

i really dont think i have a setup problem or have anything incorrectly hooked up. i think im just running pig rich here. so the map looked fine to you...?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I won't be able to compare it to my map until tomorrow sometime.

based on what he told me, you may be running lean actually. He told me he had to add a lot of fuel to get the car to start with the top feed 850s. I hope to get to the bottom of this problem on my car, at this point I'm just speculating. I'll be troubleshooting it tomorrow with Ihor, but we have to pull another guy's engine for him as well. It's going to be a late night, lol.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

alright... well get back to me and see if chris or anyone else can review that map with you at some point. i need my car out of my shop as it doesnt make any money for me on my lift

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

anyone else have an idea??? bump

Snook

iTrader: (12)

Rich is right. Most likely the map. Once you switch it out you'll have to play with the throttle quite a bit while cranking to start it since it may be flooded/fouled plugs at first

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

^ its funny i also think its the map! i have 3 very smart people reviewing the map so we'll get some good results im sure thanks for the reply. also how much atf is normally used for deflooding? a couple caps i assume...

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Hey Lance, I haven't been able to look at your map yet, sorry about that.

Good news though, we were able to get my car running with the new map, she fired right up. With the 4 inch straight through exhaust, she gives out a LOUD low deep rumble .

Are you sure your motor is flooded? plugs wet? a couple of capfuls worth of ATF in each spark plug hole should be enough, but when in doubt just toss more in. It'll all burn off

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

haha... rich you sob! must be nice to hear exhaust notes. im getting soooooo much vasoline build-up on the plugs with a nice glaze of fuel. it sucks cause i thought i got all of the lube out of the motor prior to bolting the longblock up. i guess tomorrow i'll put some atf in and cycle that beotch over! thanks for the concern and motivation with beating me to it

CCarlisi

What resistors are you running? I assume by 850cc you mean 83lb injectors =870cc. I initially used 10ohm 10 watt resistors and couldn't get my car to start, even after adding a lot of fuel to the map. I swapped the resistors for 5ohm 5 watt units, nearly doubled the fuel at low rpm and the car started right up. If you are using 10ohm resistors I would swap them for 5, 4, or even 3ohm units before doing anything else. A little more info on resistors: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=resistor FWIW CMonakar=CCarlisi

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

im using 7.5ohms at 25watts. this is specified by ray wilson. there is no problems with the resistance the injectors tested bare and backprobed and work the same so resistance is not an issue. thanks for the help though,every thing helps at this point

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Those resistors may be your problem.

Go back and click on the link Chris gave you, and read post #6.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

ray says thats what he uses on all of his cars at pfs... so i dont get it, why would he recommend something that would not work? not arguing with you guys just trying to save my self the headache of splicing new resistors in and ughhhh.... doing all of that with the engine in the car. should i just try deflooding the car completely tomorrow and starting again? i just cant handle having to order yet another part.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Well, are your plugs wet with fuel? the motor may not be flooded. As far as the resistors go, most shops only install the big top feed secondaries, and those resistors may be suited for that application but not for the primaries. I could be wrong, but my car fires right up with the 3 ohm 5 watt resistors. You may just need some serious tuning, add fuel to the cranking map.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

You could run the base map with no changes and the car should still start, but would idle like crap. Odds are its not your map or the resistors. You getting spark?

Jason

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

yeah spark like a ****! im going to try to sneak out from the family today and run over to my shop and deflood it. and i believe someone saying that each fc edit program has a different preloaded base "default" map. is this true? i believe im running version 1.090. anyone wanna hook a brotha up with the newest version.... mono4lamar@hotmail.com

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

HAHA! got some good and bad news! bad news is my primary rail was leaking out of the top where the front rotor injector top goes in! that wont help the front rotor fire the good news is that i believe this was my whole problem. when i would pull the front rotor L and T plugs they would never have any smell of fuel. pretty much my front rotor never ever got any fuel cause of this leak!

RICH did you do anything specific to aid in sealing? im getting pretty pissed at this point and might dab a tiney tiney bit of gasket sealant around the 0-ring. i hated how they fit in the block kg should have machined the holes in the rail a little further apart. they seem to make the injectors taper together! anyone have any tips tricks to helping top feed injectors seal better? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP